|
Component (un) reliability is nothing new. Granted the brifters are more complex devices, but there was a time when Campy RDs were poo-pooed for performance/reliability, even as simple as they were. Likewise with Simplex plastic RDs. Electronic shifting? YGTBSM. Don’t see the appeal. Disc brakes? I’m on the fence with that. |
Originally Posted by Phil_gretz
(Post 20846375)
And for the record, today I rode in to work on a 41-year old steel bike. I enjoyed my ride very much.
|
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
(Post 20846639)
I like steel as much as the next guy (or gal), but you know that if carbon fiber had been available in the 1930s, Rene Herse, Alex Singer, Nichola Barra, and all those guys would have been using it.
Our bikes would be a lot heavier and poorer-performing today if it weren't for the "weight weenies" of the past. :) There were AL bikes available before 1900, so there was access to lighter weight frames in the past. Not embraced by the public at that time, even though high tech. I’m not surprised people buy cheap stuff and replace it when it breaks. We’ve been conditioned to see that as normal. The economy would crumble if people only bought high-quality, long-lasting products. |
As an old ex-racer, from the days of steel, I really appreciate the performance, and feel of my two carbon bikes. One is a comfort and endurance Roubaix, the other is an aero, racer stiff, Di2, disc brake wonder bike. That being said, I still love and ride my 55 year old Legnano race bike (46 miles yesterday, 16+ mph average). I'm not a cycle tourer, not a commuter, I just love riding. It serves no purpose to dis people who prefer carbon over steel. It's like dissing people who like broccoli, just because you do not. Cycling is a big buffet table of goodness. Take what you want, love what you ride, ride what you love. Its all good. Don't blame the manufacturers, consumers rule, manufacturers only provide the buffett.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...20151ae22a.jpg My oldest ride ... https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...adf79d944e.jpg ... and my newest (c-word ) ride. |
I shy away from carbon fiber for a reason few talk about. Failure mode. Aluminum frames and forks for the same reason. I have lived through an aluminum fork failure. (If something of that magnitude were to happen again, I pray I won't live. Once is plenty. So I ride steel and titanium frames. (The titanium ones built by builders I know and have been doing it a long time. TiCycles. Been in the game almost as long as Merlin and Lightspeed.) Steel forks, steel steerers, always.
I make no claim these parts won't fail. I do have some belief, based on experience, that those failures are very likely not to be physically costly to me. I have had two steel frames break on me while riding (a right chainstay and a seattube at the BB, two forks; a blade midway and both blades at the crown. (Yes, that last one was scary. We, myself, the builder and the metal plater made a series of decisions that almost worked out very badly. I descended 2000' on those blades that barely got me home. I replaced that fork with a good ol' - brand new - 531 fork with a deeply scalloped crown ... and paint. It's going nowhere in my lifetime!) I will never race and haven't since I hung up my numbers a year after my head injury. I now have NFL "loose brain syndrome". Spending a lot of time on wheels is not being very smart. So I absolutely do not need the speed advantage of CF. I do love climbing but for me, the pure joy of it happens when the bike fits perfectly; it and me form a smooth machine. Weight and speed really don't matter much. Rode yesterday about 35 miles on my old Mooney. Fancier materials wouldn't have made the ride any better. (Now less wind would have. Aero wheels would have helped, But being blown around more, well, maybe not. The rest of the aero was all about the long, low back and frame material makes zero difference there!) Ben |
Originally Posted by Slightspeed
(Post 20846830)
As an old ex-racer, from the days of steel, I really appreciate the performance, and feel of my two carbon bikes. One is a comfort and endurance Roubaix, the other is an aero, racer stiff, Di2, disc brake wonder bike. That being said, I still love and ride my 55 year old Legnano race bike (46 miles yesterday, 16+ mph average). I'm not a cycle tourer, not a commuter, I just love riding. It serves no purpose to dis people who prefer carbon over steel. It's like dissing people who like broccoli, just because you do not. Cycling is a big buffet table of goodness. Take what you want, love what you ride, ride what you love. Its all good. Don't blame the manufacturers, consumers rule, manufacturers only provide the buffett.
I'd love it if I could show up to the buffet and find something classic-ish looking that gives you the best of both worlds combo of a Rando bike with a townie bike. Unfortunately that isn't available and I have to make it myself. But I can definitely find many flavors of carbon, gravel and crappy commuter. And I have to find the secret club and password for the people who have or are adjacent to what I want. Honestly it feels like in my local shops there is even less choice than there was 3 years ago. And I live in a place with lots of shops and lots of choices. Regular old USA has even less options than I have. |
Originally Posted by 79pmooney
(Post 20846910)
I shy away from carbon fiber for a reason few talk about. Failure mode. Aluminum frames and forks for the same reason. I have lived through an aluminum fork failure. (If something of that magnitude were to happen again, I pray I won't live. Once is plenty. So I ride steel and titanium frames. (The titanium ones built by builders I know and have been doing it a long time. TiCycles. Been in the game almost as long as Merlin and Lightspeed.) Steel forks, steel steerers, always.
I make no claim these parts won't fail. I do have some belief, based on experience, that those failures are very likely not to be physically costly to me. I have had two steel frames break on me while riding (a right chainstay and a seattube at the BB, two forks; a blade midway and both blades at the crown. (Yes, that last one was scary. We, myself, the builder and the metal plater made a series of decisions that almost worked out very badly. I descended 2000' on those blades that barely got me home. I replaced that fork with a good ol' - brand new - 531 fork with a deeply scalloped crown ... and paint. It's going nowhere in my lifetime!) I will never race and haven't since I hung up my numbers a year after my head injury. I now have NFL "loose brain syndrome". Spending a lot of time on wheels is not being very smart. So I absolutely do not need the speed advantage of CF. I do love climbing but for me, the pure joy of it happens when the bike fits perfectly; it and me form a smooth machine. Weight and speed really don't matter much. Rode yesterday about 35 miles on my old Mooney. Fancier materials wouldn't have made the ride any better. (Now less wind would have. Aero wheels would have helped, But being blown around more, well, maybe not. The rest of the aero was all about the long, low back and frame material makes zero difference there!) Ben |
Originally Posted by jade408
(Post 20847469)
I have to disagree with you on cycling being a buffet of goodies. While in the entire universe of cycling there is something for everyone. But at the LBS level, all the buffets have the same stuff. Unfortunately when you see the same stuff everywhere, you assume that is all there is. You only know there is whole array of other options if you spend all sorts of time obsessively researching (and of course if you have found your way to this pocket of the Internet - you are likely the type to do so).
I'd love it if I could show up to the buffet and find something classic-ish looking that gives you the best of both worlds combo of a Rando bike with a townie bike. Unfortunately that isn't available and I have to make it myself. But I can definitely find many flavors of carbon, gravel and crappy commuter. And I have to find the secret club and password for the people who have or are adjacent to what I want. Honestly it feels like in my local shops there is even less choice than there was 3 years ago. And I live in a place with lots of shops and lots of choices. Regular old USA has even less options than I have. Most (but not all) of the CF frames are either generic looking, or too weird looking. Granted, generic or weird is strictly in the eye of the beholder. I will not criticize or question othe riders’s choice of frame and equipment, but again I agree with you that the manufacturers are not giving consumers real choices. I happen to think that both of my CF bikes are classy looking, in an understated sort of way. But they may not be everyone’s cup of grappa. And that’s OK with me. :thumb: My steel frame bikes are very classy looking, I get lots of admiring comments whenever I ride either one of them. It is a big world out there, go out and have fun regardless of bike frame construction material. |
Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
(Post 20847480)
I agree with you 100%. Most (but not all) of the CF frames are either generic looking, or too weird looking. Granted, generic or weird is strictly in the eye of the beholder. I will not criticize or question othe riders’s choice of frame and equipment, but again I agree with you that the manufacturers are not giving consumers real choices. I happen to think that both of my CF bikes are classy looking, in an understated sort of way. But they may not be everyone’s cup of grappa. And that’s OK with me. :thumb: My steel frame bikes are very classy looking, I get lots of admiring comments whenever I ride either one of them. It is a big world out there, go out and have fun regardless of bike frame construction material. |
OK, so I feel the need to weigh in. I have two road bikes that I ride regularly. One is a ~15 year old, sub-20 pound pro-level (state of the art in its day) race bike; the other is an I-don't-know-how-old (30-40 years probably), 30-ish-pound full 531db race bike, 650b conversion with VO fenders and dynamo lighting. I average about 2mph faster on the light bike, but I doubt that the bike is inherently faster. More likely I ride faster on it because it feels lighter and livelier. If I had to choose one, it'd be the 650b bike because it's more versatile and I don't always ride on good roads in nice weather. But I'm glad I haven't had to choose. I love them both.
SP OC, OR |
Originally Posted by rando_couche
(Post 20847492)
OK, so I feel the need to weigh in. I have two road bikes that I ride regularly. One is a ~15 year old, sub-20 pound pro-level (state of the art in its day) race bike; the other is an I-don't-know-how-old (30-40 years probably), 30-ish-pound full 531db race bike, 650b conversion with VO fenders and dynamo lighting. I average about 2mph faster on the light bike, but I doubt that the bike is inherently faster. More likely I ride faster on it because it feels lighter and livelier. If I had to choose one, it'd be the 650b bike because it's more versatile and I don't always ride on good roads in nice weather. But I'm glad I haven't had to choose. I love them both.
SP OC, OR |
Originally Posted by jade408
(Post 20847469)
I have to disagree with you on cycling being a buffet of goodies. While in the entire universe of cycling there is something for everyone. But at the LBS level, all the buffets have the same stuff. Unfortunately when you see the same stuff everywhere, you assume that is all there is. You only know there is whole array of other options if you spend all sorts of time obsessively researching (and of course if you have found your way to this pocket of the Internet - you are likely the type to do so).
I'd love it if I could show up to the buffet and find something classic-ish looking that gives you the best of both worlds combo of a Rando bike with a townie bike. Unfortunately that isn't available and I have to make it myself. But I can definitely find many flavors of carbon, gravel and crappy commuter. And I have to find the secret club and password for the people who have or are adjacent to what I want. Honestly it feels like in my local shops there is even less choice than there was 3 years ago. And I live in a place with lots of shops and lots of choices. Regular old USA has even less options than I have. |
Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
(Post 20847480)
It is a big world out there, go out and have fun regardless of bike frame construction material. I have several steel bikes and one CF. Love riding them all. |
I have no interest in riding a carbon bike... seen too many pictures of exploded carbon from people that were just riding along. I do really like my carbon rail brooks saddle and would maybe try carbon fenders if they ever become widely available.
|
Originally Posted by horatio
(Post 20847476)
If weight and speed don't matter, you should try a tadpole trike.
Ben |
Originally Posted by nazcalines
(Post 20847627)
I have no interest in riding a carbon bike... seen too many pictures of exploded carbon from people that were just riding along. I do really like my carbon rail brooks saddle and would maybe try carbon fenders if they ever become widely available.
Thank you. |
Originally Posted by jade408
(Post 20847469)
I have to disagree with you on cycling being a buffet of goodies. While in the entire universe of cycling there is something for everyone. But at the LBS level, all the buffets have the same stuff. Unfortunately when you see the same stuff everywhere, you assume that is all there is. You only know there is whole array of other options if you spend all sorts of time obsessively researching (and of course if you have found your way to this pocket of the Internet - you are likely the type to do so).
I'd love it if I could show up to the buffet and find something classic-ish looking that gives you the best of both worlds combo of a Rando bike with a townie bike. Unfortunately that isn't available and I have to make it myself. But I can definitely find many flavors of carbon, gravel and crappy commuter. And I have to find the secret club and password for the people who have or are adjacent to what I want. Honestly it feels like in my local shops there is even less choice than there was 3 years ago. And I live in a place with lots of shops and lots of choices. Regular old USA has even less options than I have. here is an example of something they did.... MTB to city bike https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ce8ecab379.jpg |
Originally Posted by 79pmooney
(Post 20847642)
Someone has to show me how you do the "dance" on a tadpole. The dancer - out of the saddle uphill with everything, bike and rider, moving side-to-side but with the tire tracks going straight up the hill. I live for that dance.
Ben |
Different tools for different jobs. You guys know me- I have a large collection of iconic steel (and some aluminum) bikes, and I ride them all hard. Very hard, considering my age. Yesterday, rode a 30+ mile course with a close riding buddy. I was on steel, he was on his Project One Superbike. Time: 1:54. Today, same route with the same buddy on his same bike, but I was on my sole carbon bike, a Canyon Endurace with 105. Time: 1:45. Yep, a nine minute difference. Yesterday was maybe more fun, but today was crazy fast. Probably could have done better than 1:54 on the Mooney, Cinelli or Pelizzoli, but still. |
Originally Posted by squirtdad
(Post 20847654)
@jade408....... reading this I am more inclined to think you should at least call and talk to silva cycles, or looke them up on facebook to see some builds and such..... I think that is would be worth your while to to trek from the east bay. the mechanic (Tahn) has been my go to guy for years when I am out of time or have screwed something up. They stock Rivendell, Jones and such
here is an example of something they did.... MTB to city bike https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ce8ecab379.jpg I ended up taking the super upgrade path! I am working on a custom frame build. I debated back and forth on stock frame or not. Got my parts finalized and deposit down! Hope to be riding it in June. :) I did a fitting, and am planning custom front and rear racks. Super excited about my build! It was actually the fitting that pushed me over to custom frame. The process and seeing my measurements really solidified why I have been having such fit struggles in the stock bike sizes. |
Originally Posted by horatio
(Post 20847657)
Recumbents can never duplicate the “out of saddle” rocking rhythm. It’s a different experience. But if you’re having balance issues, it’s more stable. Guess I misunderstood your “NFL head” comment. Dance on, my friend. Ben |
Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
(Post 20847650)
I would like to see some of those pictures, along with detailed information about the bikes, how they were maintained, what happened just before the alleged explosion, etc. In other words I would like to see evidence that tends to prove the claims that CF spontaneously explode mid-ride. Thank you. |
Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
(Post 20847650)
I would like to see some of those pictures, along with detailed information about the bikes, how they were maintained, what happened just before the alleged explosion, etc. In other words I would like to see evidence that tends to prove the claims that CF spontaneously explode mid-ride. Thank you. |
Originally Posted by Chombi1
(Post 20847695)
:popcorn:rolleyes::D
|
Originally Posted by nazcalines
(Post 20847689)
Yes, it would be nice if there was a forensic carbon inspector out there to catalog it all and conduct interviews, review video footage. Personally, I just choose not to use it. I've crashed my bike enough times I'd be crazy to keep riding it if it were carbon, but since it's steel, I have full confidence in it.
I have crashed on bikes using all sorts of condtruction material, steel, aluminium, titanium and yes carbon. In fact I have crashed twice with the C60. First time crashed against a K-rail on PCH and broke a finger. The C60 was fine. I crashed another time, also with the C60, hit my head and suffered a subdural hematoma. Once again, the C60 was not damaged. Finally, last year my car was rear-ended with the C60 on the Thule hitch rack. The car suffered damage, the rack was totaled. The C60 suffered only cosmetic damage. I sent it to Calfee where the bike was examined and declared safe to ride. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a64c55b3b.jpeg I support your enthusiasm for steel bikes; two of mine are good old steel. I also support your decision not to go with a CF bike. CF is not for everyone. Interetingly enough, you would buy a saddle with carbon rails, none of my saddles have carbon rails I just have a problem with claims that lack the evidence or science to back them up. Ride safely, ride long. |
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