Top tube dent repairable?
This is a 72 paramount frameset. Just wondering if there is any way to ameliorate this dent. I dont have the bike yet.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5fcb9a367.jpeg |
Originally Posted by 52telecaster
(Post 21338151)
This is a 72 paramount frameset. Just wondering if there is any way to ameliorate this dent. I dont have the bike yet.
He'll ask for pix and dimensions (or just send them with the email). He was confident he could remove the dent from my Voyageur SP. It still makes me sick to think of that dent. |
Yes, with the correct "re-forming blocks", greased up, clamped in a well-anchored vise and then plenty of elbow-grease applied. But you will lose some paint. Another approach (may work fine since a dent in that location usually is strictly cosmetic and will not affect frame alignment or performance): just remove the paint in and around the dent, fill with your choice filler (I like epoxy putty, sand down until perfect and touch up/blend paint, or cover with a painted band, bar or graphic...a matter of personal choice and style.
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Thanks guys. Looks like the paint sucks there anyway.
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If you try to fill it without using the blocks first, you;ll find that the "downhill" sides stick out.
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I’ve wondered if a stud welder and dent puller (think auto body shop) would work?
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Originally Posted by tyler_fred
(Post 21338420)
I’ve wondered if a stud welder and dent puller (think auto body shop) would work?
I have aluminum frame blocks to use for this. A hardwood block cut through with a Forstner bit then cut in half would do the trick as well. It won't completly remove the dent, but will minimize it, make the tubing round first, then fill what rolling the dent won't. |
Repairable? Certainly.
Worth the cost and bother? That's up to you. |
Originally Posted by tyler_fred
(Post 21338420)
I’ve wondered if a stud welder and dent puller (think auto body shop) would work?
I've rolled the dents with aluminum frame blocks on a couple frames now, with mostly satisfactory results. The dent won't go away completely, but with a little JB weld as filler carefully feathered, it disappears under powdercoat. |
I have seen and now own a head tube rolled by Andy Gilmour and then brazed to fill and it is perfect, not cheap but for many frames in my opinion they are worth it, beyond $ and ¢.
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If the frame were going to be repainted anyway, fixing the dent is a no-brainer. If not, it's an expensive cosmetic fix. If you're handy with an aerosol spray can, you could do this as a DIY project.
I fill dents when the frame is getting other work - repairs, 650b conversions, etc. If you're powder coating, I use silver or brass to fill the dent on the recommendation from Groody Brothers. They've found that sometimes epoxy based filler outgasses when you're heating up the frame to powder coat temperatures. |
Keeping something like a '72 Paramount as a beater can be a good thing...
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You guys are inspiring. When i pick it up i will post more pics. I want to set this up as my around town bike. It is coming with honjo fenders and an old schwinn saddle bag. Nitto north road style bars as well as the original seatpost, crank and a brooks.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...994778813.jpeg Currently set up as a three speed https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...be1657e72.jpeg Serial no. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...50242bdca.jpeg Bag |
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Originally Posted by gugie
(Post 21338722)
If the frame were going to be repainted anyway, fixing the dent is a no-brainer. If not, it's an expensive cosmetic fix. If you're handy with an aerosol spray can, you could do this as a DIY project.
I fill dents when the frame is getting other work - repairs, 650b conversions, etc. If you're powder coating, I use silver or brass to fill the dent on the recommendation from Groody Brothers. They've found that sometimes epoxy based filler outgasses when you're heating up the frame to powder coat temperatures. |
I have fixed many but keep in mind that if you plan to powdercoat in the future brazing or metalab must be used.
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Doesn't have to be powder coat, paint works just fine. If the rest of the paint job is acceptable, you can even paint just the tube between the lug edges.
A buddy did that to a Schwinn which we rolled that somebody had wacked along the top tube five or six times. Testors orange spray matched exactly, and you can't tell that it ever looked like a zipper. |
Originally Posted by 52telecaster
(Post 21338820)
what is a good source for the frame blocks? I have an excellent vice. I am assuming i need 1 inch blocks for a 531 top tube?
A wood block is one of the basic tools every frame builder needs to own. It is how you hold a frame while working on it in a vise. In the picture on the left is the 1" wood block I use when a frame building class student is holding something to be brazed. Often their beginning torch handling skills lets the flame wander way off target and the wood block can suffer. The next block is for them when they are filing. Old broken-in blocks have just the right amount of stickiness to hold a position but still able to move without changing the vise clamp pressure. The 3rd from the left is my personal one I usually put away when students come so it doesn't get more damaged. The aluminum one I bought from Paragon Machine Works. If I am taking out a dent, I start with the wood blocks that are a bit more forgiving. After that I use the aluminum one to get it as round as possible and finally I add some silver that isn't designed for strength but will fit a dent nicely. I got it from Cycle Design. When I was learning to build frames in England many years ago we often got frames in for repair and repainting and it was common we would fill dents with brass (actually bronze but in the States we call is brass). https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...62511b194b.jpg |
Originally Posted by 52telecaster
(Post 21338820)
what is a good source for the frame blocks? I have an excellent vice. I am assuming i need 1 inch blocks for a 531 top tube?
Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
(Post 21339050)
The aluminum blocks are sold by Paragon Machine works that makes frame building bits and accessories. The aluminum one I bought from Paragon Machine Works.
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Originally Posted by gugie
(Post 21338722)
I fill dents when the frame is getting other work - repairs, 650b conversions, etc. If you're powder coating, I use silver or brass to fill the dent on the recommendation from Groody Brothers. They've found that sometimes epoxy based filler outgasses when you're heating up the frame to powder coat temperatures.
Originally Posted by daviddavieboy
(Post 21338847)
I have fixed many but keep in mind that if you plan to powdercoat in the future brazing or metalab must be used.
If you're doing a restoration on a premium or historically significant frame (like a Paramount), then by all means have a frame builder fill the rolled remains of the dent with silver or brass. It's the best way to fill a dent in bike frame tubing, period. That's what I did with my '29 Cyrus-Great Western. However if you're working on a budget to get a decent classic frame presentable again, you can indeed use JB Weld under powdercoat (or paint). It holds a static charge like metal, and holds up just fine to the 400 deg. F used for most powdercoating. I've done a couple of frames this way with very nice results. More importantly, my powdercoat guy has done dozens. He's also filled sizeable dents in motorcycle tanks this way as well. I don't know what type of epoxies Groody Bros. has had trouble with, but I haven't seen any. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ac8460b552.jpg |
Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
(Post 21339050)
When I was learning to build frames in England many years ago we often got frames in for repair and repainting and it was common we would fill dents with brass (actually bronze but in the States we call is brass).
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Originally Posted by Hudson308
(Post 21339950)
I don't choose to disagree with you lightly, Gugie. You're a world-class craftsman in my book, and you're one of the few guys who are actually doing this stuff.
If you're doing a restoration on a premium or historically significant frame (like a Paramount), then by all means have a frame builder fill the rolled remains of the dent with silver or brass. It's the best way to fill a dent in bike frame tubing, period. That's what I did with my '29 Cyrus-Great Western. However if you're working on a budget to get a decent classic frame presentable again, you can indeed use JB Weld under powdercoat (or paint). It holds a static charge like metal, and holds up just fine to the 400 deg. F used for most powdercoating. I've done a couple of frames this way with very nice results. More importantly, my powdercoat guy has done dozens. He's also filled sizeable dents in motorcycle tanks this way as well. I don't know what type of epoxies Groody Bros. has had trouble with, but I haven't seen any. |
Originally Posted by Chuckk
(Post 21339049)
Doesn't have to be powder coat, paint works just fine. If the rest of the paint job is acceptable, you can even paint just the tube between the lug edges.
A buddy did that to a Schwinn which we rolled that somebody had wacked along the top tube five or six times. Testors orange spray matched exactly, and you can't tell that it ever looked like a zipper. |
I'll order some blocks and get it in a little better shape than it is now. Ty everyone!
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