Advice Please! Campagnolo Veloce Triple to Double
 

Hello. I have a 2005 Klein Road Bike with a Campagnolo Veloce 10 speed Triple groupset. The Chainrings are 52/42/30 and the cassette is 12-25.

I hardly ever use the granny ring (30) and would like to modernise the look / feel of the bike. On eBay I can see that Campagnolo made a Veloce double Veloce chain ring 53/39

Can I just unbolt the existing triple and crank and replace with the Veloce double?
I am hoping that I can do this without having to replace other components, and that I will simply need to re-adjust the front derailleur and adjust one of the limit screws? Hopefully no need to adjust anything on the shifters or change the spindle??

If I also change the cassette to 13-29, I should also replace the chain?

I am not a mechanic so please go easy on me.

Hope you can help,

Generally, triples use a longer BB spindle, so you probably need to replace the BB as well to maintain chain line. I'm actually doing something like this with an old Cannondale, converting from a triple to a double. The triple uses a 122.5mm spindle, whereas the double uses 107. That's a pretty big difference!

Shifter should be fine since Campy doesn't try to index the front. But you'll have to adjust the limit screws in any case or the chain will fall off whenever you downshift. Or upshift, probably.

Regarding chain length, it might work or might not (i suspect not). One way to check is wrapping the chain around the large chain ring and largest cog and then add an inch. You really shouldn't ever be in that gear, but that sizes it correctly.

Hey genejockey.
Thanks for the quick reply. Appreciated.
So your answer makes sense, esp after I read about chainline just now.
I just need to ascertain what my current bottom bracket / spindle length is and what is required for a double.
I will try to see if there is anything on the Campagnolo website.

Love the Bay Area, We visited 2 years ago from London. Awesome
Thanks again

Model year makes a big difference. Current crank and bottom brackets are nothing like the old square taper type. A current centaur crank and BB would work, with the FD limit screw adjusted to make to prevent the shift to the little ring. Other brands of matched cranks and BB would also work.

Thanks Dave.

Your reply is quite timely. I have just discovered the new bottom brackets are now a cartridge system. Just ordered one.
Please could I ask two other related questions:

a) As stated at the top I intend to replace my triple 52/42/30 with a double. I can only find veloce 53/39. Do you know if it is possible for me to use my old 52 outer chain ring on my new double instead of the 53 that actually comes with the double. Sorry if this is a daft question.
b) Secondly the widest veloce 10 speed cassette I can find is 13-29. Do you know if Campagnolo make any other compatible 10 speed cassettes that have a slightly wider gearing e.g. up to 32


Hope you can help

Many thanks

S

Once you complete the process, pass the triple onto another user. Despite what the industry would have you believe, there's still a demand for triples.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...s-triples.html

Campagnolo makes a Centaur 12-30 cassette, I just ordered one yesterday from Wiggle. Your rear derailleur cannot handle a 32 tooth cog. even a 30 tooth cog may be a problem

No reason why you shouldn’t be able to use your 52 on the double crankset, as long as (1) they’re both standard 5 arm conformation, as opposed to the Campag “hidden 5th arm” design, and (2) they’re both the same bolt circle diameter (BCD) - Campag Standard BCD is 135mm. I’ve used aftermarket (TA) 50 and 51 big rings on my Campag double for years

Will do sir. Just need to verify that my move to a double is not a mistake for my knees first :)

Thankyou! Will take a look now on Wiggle

Thankyou!! That is great news. Very happy!

Does anyone know if a 2005 Veloce Derailieur can handle a 30 tooth Centaur Cassette?

It's the cage length that matters.

I was running a 2006 Centaur short cage rear on my Battaglin, but wanted to go beyond the 12-28 I was running (not as young as i used to be!), so I bought a new Veloce 10 sp medium cage derailleur that allows me to run 12-30. SO, if you were running a triple, I'd bet the derailleur is already at least medium cage. Measure the distance between the jockey wheel axle centers. If it's 55mm, you've got a short cage. 72.5mm, and it's medium, and longer than that and it's long. Since you've got a triple, it's really unlikely yours is short cage - you need the longer cage to handle the 20 tooth difference between small and large chainrings.

I have a very similar Chorus 10 speed derailleur of about the same vintage and it easily handles a 29 tooth cassette cog. I am hoping that the 12-30 Centaur cassette that I just ordered will work as well

[QUOTE=genejockey;21941102]It's the cage length that matters.

I was running a 2006 Centaur short cage rear on my Battaglin, but wanted to go beyond the 12-28 I was running (not as young as i used to be!), so I bought a new Veloce 10 sp medium cage derailleur that allows me to run 12-30. SO, if you were running a triple, I'd bet the derailleur is already at least medium cage. Measure the distance between the jockey wheel axle centers. If it's 55mm, you've got a short cage. 72.5mm, and it's medium, and longer than that and it's long. Since you've got a triple, it's really unlikely yours is short cage - you need the longer cage to handle the 20 tooth difference between small and large chainrings.[/QUOTE @genejockey. I have to say .. you are the man! Great knowledge. I have checked and my derailleur, it is 90mm between the two jockey wheel axels, so must be Long.

Q1) Can I just unbolt the inner ring (30) from my current triple (52/42/30) and use the remaining two rings as a double (52/42)? I would use a 111mm Centaur Bottom Bracket instead of the current 115 Centaur Bottom Bracket to account for the removal of one ring.

Q2) If the above is not possible, I have see on ebay a true Veloce double 53/39. Can I use my 53 chain ring from my current triple on the new double? I have read somewhere that the BCD (Bolt Chain Distance) may be different? Any ideas?

The reason I ask is because the Campag Derailleur documentation states that there should be a max difference between Front and Rear teeth of 22 teeth.

If none of the above are possible, then I guess I need find some after market outer chain rings.

@akjphil Good to hear! Please keep me posted on progress.

I gave up on standard 135mm BCD(bolt circle diameter) cranks a few years ago after my 65th birthday. I first went to a 52-36 mid compact Chorus crank for the bike I take on trips but I found that the sort of hills I did in France were just too much using a 13-26 cassette. That is when I bought the 12-29 Miche cassette that is still on the bike. However, the mid compact crank was still not enough for a trip I took to Provence that year. I was going to go away last summer, so I bought a full compact 50-34 Chorus crank, but never got the chance to try it on the long climbs we did 2 years ago. It did work very well on the much shorter climbs we have in the Montreal area. This year I will try the 12-30 cassette I just bought. If it works I should be good for the next time I try a climb in a really mountainous area with 10+ km climbs. Rather than trying to work with a 52-42 or even a 53-39 setup, you might think about a mid compact. Campagnolo makes a Centaur 11 speed crank that will work well with your 10 speed drivetrain(both of the Chorus cranks I bought are for 11 speed but work perfectly with my 10 speed drivetrains) This would require new Ultratorque bottom bracket cups, but they are inexpensive, less than the older square taper bottom bracket that you have now

[QUOTE=Futurecat;21942392]no problem simply using the two largest chainrings on your triple. Before you remove the small ring, however, make sure that the low limit screw on your triple FD has enough adjustment to fully “lock out” the small ring, otherwise you might inadvertently shift to the non-existent small ring, with all the fun consequences that will ensue.
Not sure what is meant by “Max difference between front and rear teeth”. The main parameter you need to consider when setting up drivetrain components is Maximum chain wrap, the “tooth difference” between your big/big- and small/ small ring/sprocket combination. Calculated as (big sprocket minus small sprocket) + (big ring minus small ring). This number will determine the RD you need (ie short- vs medium- vs long cage). IIRC Campag short cage RDs are specced for a max chain wrap of 27 (eg, a 39/53 crankset + 13/26 cassette) but will likely handle a little higher. However, I don’t know that the RD cares about the relative sizes of the front and rear gears that contribute to that chain wrap number.

My take is that there are a lot of things you CAN do. The question is whether you really want to. ;)

The cheapest approach would be simply taking off the inner chainring and adjusting your limit screws so the derailleur doesn't toss your chain onto the BB shell. You MIGHT think about getting one of those 'chain keepers' that prevent that, too. It's cheap insurance, because you'll be shifting to the small ring when you hit hills and if you drop your chain then, after you put it back on, you'll be starting out uphill.

One advantage of a double over a triple, however, is reduced Q factor. That is the width between the pedals. I find I'm sensitive to that, so in rebuilding my 1995 Cannondale from a triple to a double, I'm replacing the crankset and BB with an actual double and a bottom bracket with the recommended spindle length, which will move my pedals closer together. On other bikes, I've always used a BB with the recommended spindle length, to maintain chain line and Q factor.

But that's me. I'm building the Cannondale as a vintage bike, with downtube shifters and all that, so it's part of the aesthetic to get it 'right', rather than just what will work. It's a project, and it won't be my main bike. More like something for noodling around on sunny days, not doing big climbs or epic rides on.

Ok thank you both Litespud and GeneJockey and AlcJphil

My rear derailleur is the long type, and also I have tried the limit screw on the front derailleur and it allows me to successfully isolate the inner ring (and even the middle ring for that matter). As such my choices are as follows:

a) unbolt the inner ring from my current triple, keep my current bottom bracket, change the chain and cassette

b) try a dedicated "double" and if doing so, change the bottom bracket from current 115 to 111, change the chain and cassette.

(AlcJPhil I will try the above before resorting to moving to a Compact Chorus. I kinda like the old school look of the Veloce chainrings, just not the little inner ring).

I am awaiting for a new cassette (12-30) to arrive and will have a play after that.

Will post back in a few days time.

Thankyou all for your time. Stay Safe

I bought a Chorus compact for myself, but I would suggest for you a Centaur which is half the price and available in a silver colour which would look much better with your older Veloce drivetrain.

Hi There

Apologies for the long delay in getting back to you all. It has been a few weeks.
I just wanted to say a big thank you as with your help I managed to change my triple to a double and change the cassette.

Actually I could not get the cranks off and did not want to damage the frame, so simply...
- removed the inner granny ring
- left the existing 115 bottom bracket in place,
- changed the chain and the cassette to 12-32.
- change my second chain ring from 42 to 39 using an aftermarket ring I found online.
- new bar tape
- new specialised seat to replace my very worn Bontrager one that came withe bike.

Generally works well. There was no need to replace the existing "Long" rear derailleur. I find I now have much greater range.
The official Campagnolo chain replacement guide suggested my derailleur should be more horizontal when replacing the chain, however I found using the generic method worked just fine.

Attached is a photo of my bike post upgrades. Thankyou all.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5f988c685.jpeg
My wheels...

looks good - glad you landed on a workable solution. When you’re ready you should revisit removing the crankset and bottom bracket. It’s part of routine maintenance, but not urgent. With the right tools (crank remover and BB tool), you won’t damage the frame

As I've gotten older and done more hills, I thank God I got a triple.

I love the ability to make big shifts in the front derailleur on rolling hills. And I shamelessly use the granny gear all the time

It gets me up the mountains