I almost got doored - yet most drivers blame me. How do we improve car culture?
I recently posted a video where I almost got doored in a non-bike related forum. Every single response blame me. Some say I rode too close to the parked car, so it was my fault. Others say I should be riding with my dog. Yet some say I shouldn't have been weaving. Here is the video:
This is in Santa Monica, a beach city. Lots of bicycles and e-scooters. I have to ride 17 blocks on the street (with a bike lane) to get to the safe beach bike path. It's illegal to ride on the sidewalk in Santa Monica. I ride with my two dogs. One in the front basked, and the other running along side (to my left) while I hold her leash. In the video, you don't see my dog running next to me due to the camera angle. Here is a better view of us during another ride (jump 40 seconds in the video): I'm just baffled. How can you blame a cyclist for riding in the bike lane and not blame the careless driver who flings their door open? How do we change people's mentality? |
Originally Posted by howardv
(Post 21124932)
I'm just baffled. How can you blame a cyclist for riding in the bike lane and not blame the careless driver who flings their door open? How do we change people's mentality?
The lane is in the "door zone". Riding in the "door zone" is risky. These three things are true: 1- Drivers need to learn to look back whether or not there's a bicycle lane. 2- Bicyclists need to understand that the "door zone" is a risky place to ride. Green paint doesn't make it less risky. 3- Cyclists should not be riding in a bicycle lane if it's dangerous/risky to be riding there. As the cyclist, you can't do much to control 1. As the cyclist, if you aren't dealing with 2 and 3, you aren't doing enough to keep yourself safe (you aren't "driving defensively"). Don't rely on others to keep you safe. Legally, it's going to be the driver's "fault" but that being useful entails you first being in a collision. |
that bike lane is the door zone, so dumb
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Good luck trying to change driving culture. It will never work. What will work is to improve cars and car doors, through technology. Once we all figure this out, it will be a lot easier.
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
(Post 21125034)
that bike lane is the door zone, so dumb
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On another forum, or maybe it was this one, some guy was riding with his dog on a leash and the two of them got tangled up and he ran over his dog. But God is good. His dog is fine, but in his fall the end of the handlebar went through his chest. He is a C5 quadriplegic for the rest of his life. He can breathe without machines but that's it. DON"T run your dog alongside your bike! It is not a best practice. It's stressful for them and not a whole lot of fun as it appears to be. And you could end up in an accident. That would suck rocks, I think. FWIW.
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
(Post 21124977)
Riding in the "door zone" is risky.
These three things are true: 3- Cyclists should not be riding in a bicycle lane if it's dangerous/risky to be riding there. .....Don't rely on others to keep you safe.
Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick
(Post 21125086)
Good luck trying to change driving culture. It will never work. What will work is to improve cars and car doors, through technology. Once we all figure this out, it will be a lot easier.
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
(Post 21125152)
On another forum, or maybe it was this one, some guy was riding with his dog on a leash and the two of them got tangled up and he ran over his dog. But God is good. His dog is fine, but in his fall the end of the handlebar went through his chest. He is a C5 quadriplegic for the rest of his life. He can breathe without machines but that's it. DON"T run your dog alongside your bike! It is not a best practice. It's stressful for them and not a whole lot of fun as it appears to be. And you could end up in an accident. That would suck rocks, I think. FWIW.
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Yes, the driver was careless for opening her door without checking. But green paint or not, you were riding in the doorzone. If you want to avoid being doored, don't ride in the doorzone.
I disagree with you that the bike lane is the least dangerous part of the road; your video illustrates exactly why. |
Originally Posted by howardv
(Post 21124932)
I recently posted a video where I almost got doored in a non-bike related forum. Every single response blame me. Some say I rode too close to the parked car, so it was my fault. Others say I should be riding with my dog. Yet some say I shouldn't have been weaving. Here is the video:
https://youtu.be/wjG5kYHS4ng This is in Santa Monica, a beach city. Lots of bicycles and e-scooters. I have to ride 17 blocks on the street (with a bike lane) to get to the safe beach bike path. It's illegal to ride on the sidewalk in Santa Monica. I ride with my two dogs. One in the front basked, and the other running along side (to my left) while I hold her leash. In the video, you don't see my dog running next to me due to the camera angle. Here is a better view of us during another ride (jump 40 seconds in the video): https://youtu.be/ripg0M6aDAk?t=38 I'm just baffled. How can you blame a cyclist for riding in the bike lane and not blame the careless driver who flings their door open? How do we change people's mentality? |
Originally Posted by howardv
(Post 21125230)
Any part of the road that not physically blocked off is dangerous.
Originally Posted by howardv
(Post 21125230)
The bicycle lane is the least dangerous part of the road (I'm not saying "safe").
It's not certain that riding in the door zone is safer (the magic green paint doesn't, by itself, make it safer). Experts in bicycling safety recommend not riding in the door zone. So, your notion that it's safer to do so (in this case) runs contrary to standard advice. I'd be very surprised if anybody here says you should be in the door zone. |
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
(Post 21125136)
If that bike lane is in the door then they all are
I’ve also seen ‘protected’ bike lanes using a variety of methods to separate bikes from cars also sorry for any misunderstanding I wasn’t saying anything about you |
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
(Post 21125136)
If that bike lane is in the door zone, they ALL are.
* There are many examples of lanes that aren't in the door zone. It's surprising you've never seen one. |
No bike lane should ever be in a door zone. Much better to have no bike lane.
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Originally Posted by jon c.
(Post 21125543)
No bike lane should ever be in a door zone. Much better to have no bike lane.
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There isn't a real answer. The problem is widespread. It would be less common with a steady stream of bikes in the bike lane, but as it is, one doesn't notice the occasional passing bike.
That bike lane appears to have a 1' to 1 1/2' buffer between the cars and bikes which helps a bit. The driver in the video also appears to be opening the door slowly, so a cyclist has a little time to react. Still, 1 to 2 seconds between the door cracking and being opened into the bike lane. I don't see the cyclist putting on the brakes, but does more left slightly. I do wonder if a road bike would have been more nimble in that situation than a cargo bike. Nonetheless, I am also a utility cyclist, and know the demands of utility cycling. |
Originally Posted by rumrunn6
(Post 21125378)
no they aren’t. there are many diff kinds of bike lanes - this one is near me and provides more ‘elbow room’ away from the cars.
https://youtu.be/kl3X3jZvjoc I’ve also seen ‘protected’ bike lanes using a variety of methods to separate bikes from cars also sorry for any misunderstanding I wasn’t saying anything about you |
Originally Posted by livedarklions
(Post 21125680)
I know the Minuteman crossover in the video quite well. You do realize you rode right through the door zone of several parked vehicles in that video, right?
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We (in Ireland) constantly deal with the Road Safety Authority (RSA) treating cyclists as the problem: WE should wear high-vis vests; WE should wear more lights; WE should have every piece of safety equipment going... otherwise, WE are (at least partially) at fault.
To that I say: NO. Cyclists are not the problem. The lack of cycling infrastructure - and paint is NOT infrastructure - is a problem. The deference to cars and trucks - a "motocracy" - at the cost of everyone else (pedestrians and cyclists), is a problem. Not putting pedestrians and cyclists first, is a problem. I don't see this changing soon, there simply isn't the political willpower to make it happen. It will take global catastrophe, with parts of the world becoming uninhabitable due to climate change, and other similar dramatic events, for people to reconsider their transport habits. |
Originally Posted by livedarklions
(Post 21125680)
I know the Minuteman crossover in the video quite well. You do realize you rode right through the door zone of several parked vehicles in that video, right?
To contrast, in Santa Monica 7' parking stalls, 1' "buffer", 5' "bike lane." -mr. bill |
Originally Posted by mr_bill
(Post 21125797)
9’ parking stalls, 6’ bike lane. So he rode over 12’ from the curb. Even with walk to the curb parking common in MA, how big are your doors?
To contrast, in Santa Monica 7' parking stalls, 1' "buffer", 5' "bike lane." -mr. bill |
Originally Posted by rumrunn6
(Post 21125754)
Reread what I wrote- it’s not as narrow or as close to the cars so one can ride further from the cars but there are others with a ‘margin’ between the cars and the bike lane - that original one posted w the puppies is very narrow and right up against where the cars are which I thought was dumb but not looking before getting out of a car is even dumber
It's possible you are and it's an artifact of the camera angle, but I don't think so. |
Person opening the door made an honest mistake, IMO. No one was hurt. I would not worry about trying to change other people too much, just be more careful next time, and not be so quick to anger. I'm sure the person opening the door has a very different version of this event, which is equally valid.
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
(Post 21125858)
Look at the actual video. I won't harp on it too much because it may be an artifact of the camera angle, but it looks pretty clear to me that the spot on the path he is riding on as he passes the parked cars is well within the span of an opened door. I ride that particular curve on the left side of the lane, your numbers be damned.
Mr. about to take the lane is riding in the door zone here: https://i.imgur.com/yU3WBeK.png?1 rumrunn6 is riding right over the center of the arrow. Mr. about to take the lane is now also riding in the center of the lane. Neither are riding in the door zone: https://i.imgur.com/eUk4Y8y.png?1 In any event, everyone is riding slowly (since why race to the red light), and there is NO traffic on the road to the right/behind (because they are stopped at the stop light a block inbound). On the Danger Danger Will Robinson scale of 1-10, this is a -3. -mr. bill |
Things I've heard about a cyclist getting "doored":
1) being in the wrong place on the road (which happens to be the cycle path!) 2) not wearing enough high-vis 3) not having brighter lights 4) going too fast 5) cycling with a dog 6) not being in a car 7) not "expecting the unexpected" 8) having the wrong kind of bike There are probably more. All of this before /even considering/ that *the person opening the car door did not look first*. Spot the problem. |
My suggestion: Ring your bell or sound your horn as you ride past parked cars.
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