An aerodynamic, hill-climbing hybrid?
 

I'm taking my first tentative steps away from the world of comfort bikes. My Raleigh Venture 7-speed is a reliable steed, but I think the upright position is working against me in some ways, especially on windy days and in terms of pedaling efficiency. (We get some really gusty days.) I also have a feeling it could be geared lower for better climbing (lots of hills in the Hill Country). Of course the engine could always use some upgrading as well:o, but the easier and more enjoyable my ride is, the more time I'll spend on the bike.

I've started looking at endurance-type road bikes (of the Fuji Sportif/Giant Defy variety), because I figured I needed drop bars. But might a hybrid with a more aggressive geometry give me most of the help I need against the wind?

I'd be very interested in hearing any recommendation you might have for an entry-level (or thereabouts) "performance hybrid" that offers such a geometry, along with a hill-friendly gear range. The closest I've come in the past was test-riding a Giant Escape, but that was a very weird experience -- my neck was practically in a racing position, I felt awfully high off the ground, and my butt was literally (and seriously) bruised for days afterward. Wrong frame size? Poor fit by the LBS? Maybe get some padded shorts and try again?...

So-called "aggressive" geometry helps pedaling efficiency because it allows your gluteus muscles to participate, where in an upright position they are contracted and unable to contribute.

But most road bikes have much higher gearing than hybrids so that tends to make climbing a little harder.

So what you want is either a road bike with either a road triple or a compact plus double, or a hybrid with handlebar setup even with or lower than your saddle.

Any brand will do, all the major players offer both those types of bikes, though since SRAM no longer offer road triples your choices there are a little limited.

Should I also be thinking about overall weight and wheel/tire dimensions as factors in climbing ability?

I've got both a "sit up and beg" hybrid ( DS 8.4) and an Endurance geometry roadie (Avanti Cadent ERII 2) .

In terms of head wind, with a "sit up and beg" style bike you act like a sail and catch wind on your chest, so yeah the only thing you can try and do is make your frontal area smaller. Duck your head down a bit, wear tighter clothing...... Yes a roadie does help, you can get down on the drops and make yourself more aerodynamic.

For hills there's a number of factors. Of course hilly is a relative term. Here in Tassie is considered hilly by Australian standards. I live at 250m and a typical 1 hour ride for me will pickup between 450 and 800m elevation over about 25kms. But it's certainly not as "hilly" as some other countries :p

In terms of hills there's a number of factors:

1. Engine ( you can work on that one as you say )

2. Gearing - funnily enough having lots of lower gearing isn't necessarily better for hills. This is something I've considered lately after doing Mount Wellington , a 986m elevation gain over 31kms which I did on the DS ( complete divergence but I did it on the hybrid rather than the roadie cause I knew the bigger tires, extra weight and hydraulic brakes would make the down hill MUCH more fun :) ). While the gearing is a lot lower on the DS, climbs I do are often faster on the Roadie (34/28) than the DS (26/32). I think having lower gears just makes you "lazy" and you pick the lowest gear, pedal really quickly but not the most efficiently.

3. Weight - A lighter bike whether roadie or hybrid means less weight to "lug" up the hill.

Don't know if it helps but basically my experiences :)

In terms of the Escape, you're probably just not use to the different position and saddle though bruises isn't a good sign. By the sounds if you do go road bike you'd be best on an Endurance Geometry as it'll be less "bum up" generally than "my neck was practically in a racing position" . That being said there's a lot of adjustment you can do to all these bikes to make the fit YOU correctly. Recommend you test ride a few other bikes both hybrid and roadie and see what works for you.

Just for fun :) here's a comparison of your Venture vs Giant Escape vs Giant Defy (Endurance) vs Giant TCR ("Race") . See how different the positions are (saddle to handlebar height difference, reach to bars etc) ? Sometimes you just don't notice how big the difference is when you just go and testride a bike. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...psqkoch3nq.png

No question a lighter bike will be easier to climb with, that's one of the sacrifices you make with a hybrid and/or with a triple crank, they are heavier.

Wheel dimension does play a role but the rider/engine is far more important than whether you are running 700c, 26", 650b or 20".

Tire width is usually correlated to tire weight, so a thinner tire would likely be lighter. Keep in mind the compromise with lighter wheels and thinner tires may well be decreased stopping power on the descent, though.

There are ultra light disc brake rotors available which are so light that they can catastrophically fail on sustained descents, especially if not utilized optimally:

Road Bike Disc Brakes Are Coming, But Will They Work?

You can get a lightweight hybrid with good climbing gears. Sounds like you're not going to want an aggressive posture when biking despite the wind resistance. My personal feeling is that wind resistance argument is a bit over-stated. I ride a hybrid with folks who ride roadies. We're all affected by the wind. I may be affected more, but they don't seem to go any faster and they swear just as much. Good luck.

The endurance road bikes and high performance hybrids have blurred the line between road and hybrid even further. Endurance road bikes have more in common, as far as frame geometry, with hybrids, except they have drop bars for more hand position choices. High performance hybrids have similar geometry to high performance road bikes, but have flat bars. If you line them up side by side, you can really see the differences/similarities. Decide where your hands are most comfortable in relation to the seat, then which kind of bars you like. Then you can pick the bike that has the geometry to match your comfort. Gearing should be adequate, whether you choose a road or hybrid. Hybrid may be heavier, as they usually have wider tires/wheels. Dealers will usually swap stems, tires, seats, etc. for minimal cost, if any, to make sure you have the bike to your liking.

For more than a few miles, I prefer drop bars, but I have them set higher, so the tops are slightly above the seat level, the drops are slightly below. When I was 25, I wanted my bars as low as possible, but I don't have that flexibility anymore. I have been changing components as required to make all my bikes fit the same.

Nice to see someone who prefers drop bars make a sensible post on this general subject, Pompiere.

I continue to think part of the problem is the general term 'hybrid'; it simply doesn't work very well in today's market. We now have lots of choices, and the market has evolved into several fairly well-defined categories. Staying with "road bikes", and what the OP is possibly looking for, these are now becoming more available in either flat-bar or drop-bar dedicated versions more or less as follows:

"Touring": classic drop-bar touring bikes now have flat-bar equivalents like the Giant Escape or Trek FX series (the aluminum ones). Fairly relaxed semi-upright riding position.
"Endurance Road": less upright/a little more aero than 'touring' geometry. Intended for fast recreational road riding. Drop-bar: Giant Defy; Specialized Roubaix. Flat-bar: Giant Fastroad; Specialized Sirrus; Trek 7.7FX.
"Road race": no real flat-bar equivalent. If one is going to race on road, one would use drop-bars. More aggressive/aero geometry. Giant TCR; Specialized Tarmac etc. etc.

Other categories are emerging, but these at present are the most clearly-defined to my mind. Pushing it a little further, the differences in weight/overall quality between endurance road bikes and their flat-bar siblings are fast disappearing. The Giant Fastroad Comax 1, for example, compares pretty much directly with the Giant Defy Advanced 2 -- Shimano 105 level. Specialized is pushing it further in 2016, offering the Sirrus Carbon with Ultegra, getting it closer to the higher-end Roubaix.

So those of us doing general recreational road riding now have real, instead of severely compromised, choices between drop- and flat-bar road bikes. Consequently I couldn't agree more with Pompiere: choose your preferred riding position (relaxed/semi-upright or slightly more aggressive/aero 'endurance'), preferred bar type (drop or flat), and pick a bike accordingly.

Flat bar 'endurance' road bike (mine):

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469720

Yeah, I can see from the picture comparison of the Giant Escape and Defy, for example, that there's not a whole heck of lot of difference in geometry between performance hybrids and endurance road bikes. If relaxed-geometry with drop bars doesn't present a huge wind advantage over performance-hybrid flat bars, and I'm basically exploring the city instead of trekking across the U.S., then flat bars may be fine. But all other things being equal, I'll go with the most bike for the least money, and that probably means a hybrid. :)

Just to be clear: it is not a "huge" advantage, but it is a real one under certain conditions. On flat or rolling terrain, if you are riding into a headwind and if you have your bars set at or slightly below saddle height, and if you can ride in the drops for sustained periods, you will be able to sustain a given speed for slightly less energy, or go slightly faster for the same energy expended. Slightly. On sustained descents, similarly, if you are able to ride in the drops you will descend slightly more quickly. The reason, in both cases, is mainly due to improved aero in the drop position; on descents, it also helps to be in the drops to lower centre of gravity.

Conversely, when climbing there is either no difference or a slight advantage to the slightly more 'relaxed' and open position given by wider flat bars. Reason: that position naturally 'opens up' the chest for breathing.

These things matter only if you are wanting to do longer rides over varying terrain, alone or with a group, and wanting to extract every bit of speed for a given expenditure of (your) energy. If you are intending mainly to use a bike for urban riding etc., they matter not at all.

At this point i'm think that even a performance hybrid would be easier to ride through wind than what I currently have.

I should mention that stability matters to me also. I've heard that drop bars are a little twitchier as far as steering and control....

Point one: no ... much easier. If you look at the comparison pictures Limbot posted, the single largest jump in aero efficiency is between something like your bike and something like the Escape. Going to something between the Escape and the Defy such as a Giant Fastroad or Specialized Sirrus, that jump would be even slightly more noticeable -- again, assuming the 'performance hybrid' in question is correctly sized and fitted.

I wouldn't worry about 'stability' when choosing between flat and drop bars. Drop bar road bikes are not 'twitchy'; they are responsive -- so too are flat-bar road bikes. You would get used to that responsiveness in short order, just as you would quickly get used to the riding position on the Escape that bothered you a little! Once used to it, you will wonder how you managed with your Raleigh.

The Escape really did seem to fly during my brief test ride. But if I try it again, I'm going to (a) wear padding and (b) insist on a fitting that feels right to ME, instead of just assuming that the LBS can do no wrong.

Not all drop bars are the same, some are much better for control than others and some are better for those with smaller hands, larger hands, etc.

My favorite drops are Salsa Cowchippers, they have the drop portion flared out at 24 degrees, gives much better sense of control than regular drops.

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4050/4...924b922d_z.jpg

Wouldn't it be great if these drop bars came with flatbar shifters and brakes. I think part of the problems with drop bars is the shifter/brake configuration.

The "twitchiness" comes from a couple of things. One is the shorter geometry (necessary in a race but not recreationally. A longer wheelbase will be better ride. Second, the racing road bike will have tires that are 23 or narrower. These tires may give you more speed but they decrease stability and road control. In addition, the drop bars can add to the "twitchy" feel. When the hands are on the tops, there is little leverage. If they are in in the hoods, the reach may be more than is comfortable. The drops are naturally uncomfortable for many riders.

Yes and no... Look at the length of the stem and the distance of seat to flats, then look at the distance to the hoods where many people spent a high proportion of their time (brakes and shifters are there) . And then of course you've got the drops . You can be stretch out further on an endurance road bike depending on where you ride the bars.

I might ride the flats going uphill to open up my body to get more air or I might ride the hoods uphill to get a bit more leverage and power and downhill or into a headwind I might go to the drops to be more aero and stable. Normal riding I'm about 90% on the hoods.

Comfort, hybrid dual sport, MTB (hardtail, dual suspension, DH, AM..) hybrid road, endurance, gravel grinder, CX,, touring, road, TT...... There's so many variations on a theme ( 2 wheels and a frame) that you have to find the one that suits you likes, your budget, your usage, your comfort.... . We all use then for different things and have different bodies.

As mentioned above ride as many bikes as you can and see what's right for you.


Some bikes have interrupters brakes on the flats so kind of like where the brakes are on flatbar :)