Salsa Cutthroat for Gravel Racing?
 

I'm curious about what the forum thinks. Salsa has come out with the Cutthroat which appears to be a kind of hybrid between a gravel bike and a mountain bike. It's got a longer wheelbase than their Warbird and accepts wider tires. It's essentially a drop-bar mountain bike.

The route of the Dirty Kanza has maybe 60 or 70 miles that might be somewhat easier to ride on a mountain bike. It also has at least that much distance that probably favors a "traditional" gravel bike.

Lots of questions for discussion, but among them . . .

Does a drop bar mountain bike have the same aero disadvantages as a flat bar mountain bike?

How much would wider tires slow the bike down on easy gravel sections?

Does the Cutthroat make sense on a rocky course like the DK200? Or is there too much speed advantage for the Warbird / gravel bike?

And, it seems to me, that fatigue is what slows you down in the last 50 miles of Dirty Kanza. Would the longer wheelbase and wider tires of the mountain bike provide a comfort advantage that could pay off in those last miles?

What do you think?

Salsa describes it as a drop bar mountain bike AKA touring machine - somewhat like the Fargo - it can take huge tires - like 700 X 60!

http://salsacycles.com/files/blog/Cu...X9_profile.jpg

The bike redefines the term gravel road bike.

Its all carbon complete bike with a MSRP of $4000 USD.

A carbon frameset is available for a MSRP of $2000 USD.

This is Salsa's premium do-it-all-bike.

That's basically a Monstercross bike. You'll be limited on what you would want to do on it. The Warbird will pretty much do it all.

Most people would opt for the less expensive Colossal.

Those who want something lighter would flock to the Vaya.

You might want to look at the Salsa Deadwood.

Same specs with a more affordable cromoly tubeset. MSRP is $2600 for a complete bike. Way cheaper than the carbon Cutthroat.

Frameset is available for a MSRP of $1100.

http://salsacycles.com/files/bikes/_...Carousel_1.jpg

Those both seem like they are totally overbuilt for gravel, and are more suited to a Tour Divide-esque mountain touring situation. Get a Warbird if you want a Salsa gravel racer.

I thought you might have something there until I looked at the specs. That's a THIRTY (30) POUND bike! YIKES! (To be honest, I thought the 22 pounds of the Cutthroat made it pretty marginal.)

Lots of people do gravel races on MTB's - typically flat bar and front suspension bikes. A "gravel bike" (like the one I own - basically a road bike with 40c tires) isn't really that necessary.

From my experience, the fatter tires WILL be faster if you have significant rocky/rooty/rough sections of road or trail in your ride - sections where you would have to walk a 40c tire bike (at lets say 3 mph), but could ride a fat tire bike (at lets say 6 mph). The difference is pretty significant - if the 29er is only 1-2 mph slower on a typical gravel road, relative to the 40c gravel bike, it will take several hours to catch back up to the 29er, after walking a mile or two of singletrack.

I think last years DK was unusually wet and muddy. In addition to not spending $3-4k on a gravel bike, I certainly wouldn't get a fat-tire drop bar bike like that unless you have a race with a lot of stuff that a 40c tire just can't handle. You could also just buy a normal 29er and ride that instead - and then have the added bonus of being able to actually mountain bike. $2k can buy a decent MTB - half the price of a Cutthroat. For the record, I like the Cutthroat, but would just not spend that much money on a bike that will likely get beaten up on rough roads.

29er+ seems way overkill for gravel riding.

To be fair, Salsa is advertising it as a Tour Divide bike. For casual riding, its too much but for extensive tours on mountain back roads, this bike would be the ticket.

Its similar to the Trek 920. Its a really a heavy duty expedition touring bike, especially if it was outfitted with a dyno hub, front and rear racks, it could take one places inaccessible to a standard touring bike.

Don't ignore the Vaya. It does a lot of things very well. It's one of my all-time favorites for mixed-terrain riding.

The DK200 sounds like it has a mix of nice gravel, knarly rocky sections, and plenty of sand and mud. Not your average gravel race. When you read the race reports on rider's blogs, you see that people try lots of different bikes, and have varying success.

The Warbird is obviously more racy, and lighter. The Cutthroat is tougher and heavier.

A lot depends on the rider. Are you a big galoot? More of an endurance rider? Do you crash into stuff instead of finesse around it? Do you want to carry more stuff? If these describe you, the Cutthroat is probably better.

Are you light and fit? Do you race a lot? Do you carry minimal gear? Are you cool with a ~40 mm tire max? If so, then the Warbird may be better.

A friend of mine got all drooly over the Warbird, until the Cutthroat came out, and he realized it's a better choice for the recreational riding he does. He currently rides a Karate Monkey with Super Motos and Woodchipper bars, and he wants the same thing but lighter.

Exactly Mark....I have a Vaya and a Mukluk and find myself riding the Vaya much more often...and now about those donuts...

Nick

guys, the Cutthroat is a carbon racing bike. Yes, it's about 22 lbs, but that's several pounds lighter than a Vaya. It's not like the Cutthroat will be some heavy ponderous beast. If anything, the larger tires will provide better traction and most importantly, prevent your body from taking a pounding. Having ridden a Fargo for a few thousand miles on both 40c Nanos and 2.1" MTB tires, I can say that the MTB tires are slower on the road, but once you get off-road, they are frequently just as fast and make a WORLD of difference once the gravel gets loose and the bike simply rolls over stuff easier when the gravel gets a bit more gnarly

that said, the Warbird is an awesome bike and I'm back and forth over which will be my purchase next year once I'm done saving my $$$ :)

Guys, I'm reviving this thread to see if anyone has any more input here. I'm curious if any of you have gone to the Cutthroat as your do-it-all bike, with an emphasis on mostly recreational gravel riding. I'm also curious on your thoughts about this bike if you have back problems. Seems like this bike is very comfortable but I wouldn't want to give up a ton of performance either.

Back from the dead, eh?



I think for the average person, this could be a great bike. For a lot of rides (including our recent MI coast to coast), fat tires will be the ticket on roads/terrain where 40mm isn’t quite adequate (sand, rocks, root, loose gravel).

The 15-18mph range covers a lot of gravel rides. At those speeds, its rolling resistance (and weight) that makes the difference. A nice big tire is going to give less rolling resistance on a rougher course.

I did an experiment with a $300 30# mountain bike on excellent tires vs a $2000 20# bike, and found the speeds were pretty comparable on a ride that was fine for 40mm tires. Degrade my course at all and the bigger tires would win. The one drawback of the heavy bike was that my endurance on a 3 hour ride really took a hit – the last 35 minutes of rolling hills was hard on the heavy bike.

Wheel/tire weight makes a big difference for me on short punch rides – less so on long steady effort rides. That said the “gravelcyclist” calls tires like the 622-50 Furious Fred an “unfair advantage” (if you can fit them).

Bigger tires are always easier. The question is – are the routes you are doing pushing 40mm tires past there limit? Are there sections where you have to really slow down or be cautious on 40mm tires?

I'll have to look up those Furious Freds. I'd say there are definitely times where 40mm is barely adequate. It just depends on the conditions. It can be hot and dry here and that really makes the gravel roads dry and slick. A local here has a Cutthroat with, what I think, are the new Vittoria Terreno Drys in like 2.0" or 2.1" and he swears by this set up for everything but fast road rides or technical mtb.

Yeah, that would be a good choice too. The Furious fred are super light for their size. Thunder burt has a bit more tread if your not on roads. Schwalbe has notoriously low rolling resistance. the Thunder Burts are about 20watts (at 30kph) and the Furious Fred should be even less. I tend to have two wheelsets for different conditions (28-32mm slicks or 40mm with short knobs).

They put chloride or something on our roads, so they are often like rough asphalt in summer/fall - unless they are freshly graded. Then again, other parts of the state are more gravelly, or sandy, or just plain messy winter/spring.

I've never raced DK200, but I think this bike might be a good choice for that race for certain riders. If you want to average 22 mph and compete, I'd get a Warbird. For everyone else, a Cutthroat will likely be more comfortable and stable. A friend has the top end build. Outfit it with faster rolling tires and the bike is pretty quick. Also, you'll certainly have lots of storage options with this frame.

I really like the Cutthroat/Fargo. These bikes are also versatile as you can use it for touring, gravel, casual riding or mild single track. It's a tough bike but it's still light enough to not be a burden.

Totally agree. I initially dismissed it because... mountain bike... but when I saw how light it was it got much more appealing.

Howdy.

So I replied earlier in this thread (eh...almost 3 years ago :P ) and since then I've set up my Cutthroat and it sits at a hair under or slightly over 20 lbs, depending upon which wheelset and tires I have on it. I've put close to 4k miles on it (haven't done DK on it yet), almost all of it on gravel, singletrack, logging mountain roads, etc. Here's how I have it set up:
* carbon Cowbells
* SRAM Force drivetrain/brakes (1x)
* XX1/Quarq cranks/36t
* XG1195 cassette (10-42)
* carbon Thompson seatpost
* 180mm front/rear rotors

** Roval Traverse SL carbon wheels (30mm internal diameter) w/2.3" Renegades (previous generation)
or
** Roval Control SL carbon wheels (22mm internal diameter) w/1.8" Renegades (previous generation)

I have also done a few gravel centuries on a 2018 Diverge, which is somewhat similar to the Warbird (similar weight, similar tire clearance, similar riding style).
I have had 3 shoulder reconstruction surgeries (2 on left, 1 on right) and broke my C6/C7 vertebrae and herniated the disks (had that all replaced with a titanium insert...thingee...)
I'm also 100kg
On smooth, well manicured gravel and especially on the road, having the bigger relatively knobby tires and bigger wheels slows things down. The rougher and deeper the gravel is, the more the bigger/wider tires help, not just with speed but with fatigue resistance.
The Cutthroat is also the funnest bike I've ever owned. The riding position is rather relaxed and comfortable (not particularly aero)
It's lone weakness is that the frame doesn't accept anything larger than a 42 or 44t (2x) chainring up front, or a 38t in 1x config, so the gearing becomes a disadvantage at higher speeds

i plan on doing the DK200 either next year or the year after and I am still trying to figure out which bike to go with, the Diverge or the Cutthroat. it all depends on just how thick and deep the gravel is, because having the wide tires makes a huge difference in the deeper gravel, both for speed and for stability

Fantastic info, thanks for taking the time to chime back in!

no problem. I've put several thousand miles each on a Cutty, a Sequoia, a 2018 Diverge, and a 2011 Fargo, so if you have any specific questions, ask away

These folks have Cutthroats, Warbirds, and a Vaya and they decided to go with Cutthroats for their first DK200.

definitely going to check those videos out when I get home, thanks for that!