Nice stable! I've been waiting for someone who owns multiple steel models to pop up on the forum. What's your opinion on the ride quality of the 520 steel Expat and the higher end 631 Exploit and Escapade frames? Assuming the wheel/tire choice is similar is there any difference in feel or is it just a weight difference? I've loved the ride of my Expat and the addition of a lightweight wheelset/tubless setup transformed the bike, but I have always wondered abut the 631 frames. Also, is that a Fabric tool keg? How has it held up? I've looked hard at those, but was unsure how well it holds in place on rough terrain or if the mounting knobs wear down with use and develop play.

Are all 3 yours?!

Not sure if it was you who asked how the Expat compares to the Escapade after I upgraded the frame. Geometry between the 2 frames are a bit different in my size (48) due to the introduction of 650b specific geometry. But with my 700c wheels, the two frame feel exact the same. Yeah the Escapade is lighter, but not enough to be noticeable. At least this is my experience.

I just had a 650b wheelset built up, and it is stiff as hell and much slower than my 700c wheels.

Can't figure out how to get the pictures working with this new site.
https://i.imgur.com/BkPynNs.jpg

Ride quality I didn't notice a real difference - difficult to tell as they had different wheels and small changes in PSI would have made more of a difference.

If you already have an Expat, not worth it to just upgrade the frame. You'd get more compliance changing tyre pressure, tubeless-ing, tyre choice, wheels and cockpit (more or less in that order). Only advantage with the 631 over the 520 was the rear thru-axle vs. QR and 631 has a higher strength rating vs. 520 though even 631 and 520 Reynolds tubing is the same density and a shade lighter.

Have only had the Fabric tool keg for 4 months but so far no issues and holds firm. Actually kept a small roll of Velcro inside the keg to wrap it to the frame should I eject one on the local single track loop (mountain biker, so don't shy away from bumps etc) but haven't needed to use it. You can adjust the how tightly the keg mounts by tightening the mounting bolts slightly more.

Ha - nope. Escapade is mine, the Exploit is the girlfriends and the Expat is a mate's. We were on a recent backpacking trip and thought they were looking rather handsome all lined up matchy-matchy.

That's good to hear. May go a Nano rear and Resolute front...

^^^ Cool pic up there!

Almost a year since I started the thread and it's still going strong!

Has anyone mounted a 28mm tire on their jamis renegade with the i23 rims? I think I'm going to get some panaracer gravelking slicks for faster road rides and some hardpack dirt. Curious to see what people think about this.

The ISO and ETRTO recommended internal rim widths for 28mm tires are 15C(mm), 17C, and 19C. 23mm internal width rims are recommended for tires 37-60mm. I put Schwalbe G-One Speed 700x38 tubeless tires on my Renegade Escapade's stock WTB Frequency Team i23 rims and I'd recommend them to you. This "speed" variant of the G-Ones has very minimal tread that works great (and silently) on pavement and has also been up to the challenge of a few dirt/gravel club rides I've been on this year.

Thanks for that info. I will look into those tires. Wasn't looking for tubeless, but may consider it after reading more about it

So while I continue to wait for a 61cm Expat to become available (according to the LBS, we are now looking at sometime in July and do not have a firm date yet), I circled back around to the whole Expat vs. Exploit debate I was having with myself last month. While I can afford the additional $1000, I had originally decided (after much deliberation) to just wait for the Expat and save the money.

Now I am having second/third thoughts and find myself leaning towards just getting the Exploit after all as they are still available in 61cm. For those not keeping score at home, the extra $1000 gets me 105 instead of Tiagra, 105 hydraulic instead of TRP Spyre and 631 instead of 520. I think the rest is pretty much the same except for the paint job.

Anyone have any thoughts/opinions? :)

Do it

That's a hard decision, but I'd go with the Exploit myself. In addition to what you mentioned, you are also getting a rear thru-axle and centerlock hubs, and I really like hydraulic brakes. Also, you may find yourself wanting to upgrade the Expat at a later date, but probably not so much with the Exploit. I think the paint jobs are pretty sharp on both models.

I was in a similar situation. I went with the exploit and then started wondering if I should have gone with the escapade until it came in.

In the end, I am very happy with the Exploit.

Edit: funnily enough, all of this played out on this forum and you can see by scrolling up.

Thinking about getting Jamis Renegade. Exploit or Escapade level (I don't want carbon), not sure if this $500 difference is worth it. Thoughts?

BTW, when do the new models usually appear? May be I'm too late to the game and 2019 models will come in two weeks or so? :foo:

I asked my LBS as I was wondering when discounts on the '18 models may start and was told they would likely start arriving in November. In looking at the dates of announcements for this year's models, it does seem like most of these were in November and December of 2017. If this holds true again and my LBS was likewise correct, you still have a while to wait.

As for whether or not the Escapade is worth the extra $500, I am not qualified to comment.

I thank the rest of you for your replies to my question from yesterday. More specifically, I thank you for helping me rationalize getting a nicer bike, which is exactly what I hoped you would do. :)

I'd definitely go with the Escapade over the Exploit. $500 to get Ultegra R8000 over 105 5800 alone sounds worth it to me. The R8000 STI hoods and levers feel very nice. The ST800 brake rotors are also substantial upgrade. Plus you're getting nicer rims. The STs rims are pretty mediocre and aren't too robust. The Frequency Team rims should hold up well.

Yes, the $500 is more than worth it. I actually think they could have priced the Escapade higher relative to the Exploit, but they did not want to price a steel model higher than the lowest carbon one. If it were 105 R7000, I wouldn't say the same.

The price difference between the Expat and Exploit is substantial. I don't think the Exploit is a good buy this year considering R7000 will be on next year's model and the levers are a substantial improvement. The STI's on the Exploit are a deal breaker for me. I had the stock Expat for a few months before upgrading it to RS685(similar to the shifters on the current Exploit but one level up) and Ultegra 6800. Those shifters were bulky and the hoods never sat right. Quality was not there considering the price. Then I upgraded to the Escapade with R8020 and all is well. If you're considering spending the extra dough, I'd step up to the Escapade. If not, wait for the Expat.

I did consider it, since it is only another $500, but to be honest the main reason I won't do it is because I find the appearance of the Escapade remarkably drab. Shallow, yes, but I do plan on using this frame for quite a while and want to like the looks of it. I guess Jamis assumes that anyone wanting the top-tier steel or carbon model wants dark metallic with black (the Elite is pretty much the same color scheme). All of the rest of the frames in the series are so pretty. Now, if I could buy an Escapade with either the Explore or Expat paint job, I'd be all over that, especially the Explore green.

My current bike is Claris + calipers, so even the 5800-series 105s plus hydros is going to be a massive improvement.

Thank you guys for advice, ordered Escapade, now waiting for it to arrive! :-)

Meanwhile, what can be a good tire for it for riding mostly on bad pavement (NY...) and a bit on hard-packed dirt and gravel? No mud. I imagine stock 36 mm Clement X Plor MSO are not very good on payment though may be I'm mistaken? As a point of reference, on another bike I currently use 32 mm Continental Sport Contact II tires which seem to perform very good on dry or wet pavement, dry hard-packed dirt and gravel but feel very sketchy on loose gravel - bike starts to slide over the surface left and right, doesn't feel stable. So, something a bit more stable then these tires but without sacrificing performance on pavement? ;-)

Mine is not the most educated opinion, but when I get my Exploit (by this weekend hopefully), I plan on building a road/light gravel set for it and saving the factory wheels/tires for more gnarly stuff. I was leaning towards a setup with 32mm Panaracer Gravel Kings (non-SK) although there do seem to be several solid choices out there.

In the shop with my credit card on the table, I had yet another moment where I almost bought the Escapade instead. Almost.

The MSOs that come on it.

Edit: Oh, and Terreno Drys in 35mm.

For where I live (isn't super muddy or loamy when I hit gravel roads), I find a big volume decently supple tyre is best suited for the majority of conditions (Panaracer Gravelking 38mm is my go to tyre). I'm of the Jan Heine camp where unless you're riding on surfaces where knobs can actually dig into (say mud or loam or super cracked dirt roads), your tyre is gravel sliding on hardpack (as opposed to tyre sliding on gravel) so you may as well use a supple slick which confirms to the surface rather than tries to bite into the ground. Anything less than a 35mm I feel like isn't well suited to tubeless due to the higher pressures required to run the tyre. Would advise against the 32mm version unless you had clearance issues with 38mm (which the Renegade doesn't, even with fenders) or ride predominantly on road as it's a kind of neither-here-nor-there (not very supple for dirt, not particularly zippy on pavement).

I have a 2nd slightly less burly wheelset (20mm internal rims) which I use the Panaracer GK's on. With the stock wheelset (23mm internal rims) I threw on some knobby WTB Resolutes in 42mm for hooning around mostly on singletrack/doubletrack or when I know I'm going to do a mostly gravel ride on proper ****ty roads.

My partner can't be arsed or want to purchase a 2nd wheelset so she uses the Clement MSO's in 36mm for a 50/50 road and dirt mix. They are a decent tyre for what you're after - though she will replace them with the Panaracer GK in 38mm once they're worn out as she doesn't hit singletrack much. I didn't feel the knobs really did much on relatively smooth dirt though psychologically they look gripper (which is probably why there are so many intermediately knobbed tyres specced on bikes).