I've read the "cleans up with water" is greatly exaggerated. Some reviews seem to be of the very first batch of it and didn't sound great, but now it seems better(?) - but no info specific to track.

I was taught the old school glue procedure when I got into cycling (3 layers, day between, etc) and although I know people have success with the faster, less hassle ways... I'm kind of stuck in my ways now :D

Now that they have been out for a while, has anyone got any thoughts on the Vittoria Pista G+ Speed tubulars?
See some for a good price, just wondering what their durability is like. Im primarily riding indoors but will be doing the odd outdoor sprint on a tarmac velodrome and wondering if they will be able to do double duty. The more robust CS versions are a-lot more expensive at the moment.

Thanks in advance.

In general, the Speed G+ line (as a whole) is, in my experience, just a bit less durable than the old Corsa Evo Pistas. They should handle some outdoor rides, but you really need to check them after every ride if you do. It's easy to pick up small nicks in the tread. Carry the bike to/from the track. I've had Evo's last a season+ on outdoor tracks that are by no means "nice." I have some G+'s waiting to be glued up and expect similar, but make no mistake, they are 100% race day tyres.

Yeah - they definitely would be race day only. I just bought a FFWD rear disc and they will be going on that.
My current wheels ( and what will continue to be my front wheel in combination with the disc) are shod with Continental Tempo II tyres. These are pretty decent but i thought i would opt for something a bit nicer for the disc. I usually run the Tempos on the rollers before a session - they seem to be robust enough and not having to carry training wheels everywhere makes a big difference to travel convenience.

Ive always had matched tyres in the past - any issue with having mismatched front / rears if they have different max PSI or grip for example?

Not really, unless you are running tires that are very far apart in their inherent qualities. You also want to match tires to your preferred/most used track.

On a shallow, outdoor concrete track, you might want to run tires that trend closer to road tires in qualities. Something a little bigger, durable, and lower psi if it's bumpy and you're not pulling more G's in the turns. A steeper wood track would require a more supple casing, softer rubber, and a higher psi. Here you're looking to mitigate tire squirm to give you better feedback and more predictable handling.

I "mismatched" tires all the time to dial in what I needed/preferred from each tired based on being front or rear. The front tire on a track bike sees more forces placed upon it the steeper the track. I would put a softer, higher psi tire on the front for steep tracks for this reason. For shallow tracks I didn't really care what tire combos I was running because it's harder to get a tire to its limits on a big shallow track.

Interesting. I had the opposite impression, though of course it's a slight difference as both tires are very, very light. I have a Speed on the front and an old EVO Pista on the rear, and to my eye the tread seems a hair thicker on the Speed, and the Speeds seem to have some kind of minimal coating on the sidewall, while the EVO's are bare. Whether this translates into any practical difference in durability is, well, who knows.

World Cup VI from Hong Kong
 

World Cup VI has started with team pursuit qualification – results here (also program schedule):Tissot UCI Track Cycling World Cup VI | Tissot TimingThe USA team had the 2nd fastest time. The Olympic Channel looks like it will stream the event starting Friday at 18:30 Hong Kong time (which I calculate to be 03:30 MST)https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/sports/cycling-track/

great
 

excellent tips on tires

Seems like there is a new top top in 2019, the Conti GP 5000 with a pretty nice rolling resistance. Has anyone already tried them?
Thinking to use them with Mavic Ellipse for trainings. Going to use them with a latex tube.
I'm just wondering what do you guys suggest as a rim tape? Shall I use the bundled nylon one or there are better options, especially in connection with latex tube?

I'm also really interested in comparison between the GP5000 and Veloflex Record in open tubular version. The Records are about 25% lighter and takes up to 145 psi but the GP seems to be really really fast one. I am curious which one would be faster for a summer league :-)

Speaking of pressures. A tubular version of the Record has also 145 psi max. It is not much for track tubulars. How much pressure do you give this tubular?

Hi, noob here. I'm taking in intro-to-track class this weekend. Fortunately my neighbor gave me some of their left over tires: 2 pairs of Vittoria Open Corsa, and 1 pair of Veloflex Corsa. See the album link for pictures. From doing some reading, these look like very nice, but slightly old tires. Hopefully a significant upgrade. One of the Corsa SR's has a hole though. Anything else I should be concerned about? Thanks!

https://imgur.com/a/5GWaCF7

It's difficult to diagnose tires from here. If they are hard and not sticky, then you will slip down a steep track. Period. Doesn't matter how nice or expensive they are new.

If your track is shallow, you could be fine.

Again, it's a judgement call.

To be safe, buy new.

Thanks for taking a look. The track here is concrete and shallow. I tried out the Veloflex's for the class, and they were great. I don't have much to compare to though. I'm looking forward to getting started with the beginner racing.

Anyone have any insight on how long Pista Speeds hold up on a rough concrete track, like Rock Hill?

At Rock Hill they'll last a little bit, might make it a season for you (mine lasted 2 1/2 ish, but you are there more than I am) but you'll just have to watch them. It's hard to say as there isn't really anything on the track itself that will chew through them too fast, but it really only takes one day nobody swept before you hit the track and you hit some debris that nicks it.
Fwiw I have used a Pista speed on the road before in a TT. (and even once at Dick Lane, which is probably worse than the avg road ;) ) and been pretty lucky.

The rear will probably wear faster than the front just due to your weight distribution.

I have been on a Pista Speed Graphene 1.0 for 2018 and 2019 so far, about 10 races per year. I also have pulled it 3 or 4 times so it's seen some wear. Race on Northbrook (epoxy concrete) and Major Taylor (rough concrete). Seems to have held up pretty well so far. I think a full season of enduro life as a race only tire is possible.

clinchers for the track? I've read most of this thread and it seems like the Pista control would be good for the San Diego track. Any other good options or should I sell my clincher wheels and get tubulars?

Also what kind of tire pressures should I run? The theme I see on here is opposite of most things I here from people like Josh@Silca. Is lower not better for the track like it is for the road?

Thank you.

The nicer the surface, the higher the psi. In ideal conditions (say a perfectly smooth roller) higher psi will be faster than lower psi. The problem comes from imperfections in the road/track surface... at lower psi the tyre deforms around the imperfection, at higher psi it bounces. So at Carson say, which is wood and *pretty* smooth, you can run higher psi than you could at somewhere like Rock Hill, which is paved and not especially smooth. The worse the track surface, the closer to "road psi" you want to get, but for the most part, it will still be higher than what you'd run on the road.

As for clincher vs. tubular... plenty of people ride clinchers without issue. The problem is when things go tits up and you flat on a clincher vs. tubular, say at speed... on a (well glued, which is another issue) tubular you've got a shot at riding it out with the tyre still on the rim. On a clincher you're just SoL, that tyre is coming off and you're going down. I did that last year riding my Trispoke... full speed into turn 1, tube blows and I skate with the rim into the turn, then gracelessly take the slide of shame (and pain) - would I have been able to save it on a tubular? Maybe not, but I'd have had a shot.

(fwiw you also cannot inflate a clincher to high'er' psi's if you ever wanted to)

Thanks for the information Morelock, I wont rushing to get some tubs than.

For my road bike I followed the procedure that Josh outlined on the marginal gains podcast which involves repeatedly lowering tire pressure until the rim hits on bumps or handling gets numb and I now run 70psi front and rear. I'm assuming that that would be way to low for the track, is their a similar process for the track or just kinda guess or use the 2/3 body-weight formula I saw on here somewhere or set and forget?

@KrispyK I've never been to San Diego... but it seems to be a 333 with 28° banking. That's not terribly sharp, you could likely get away with fairly low pressure... although how low depends on so many factors that it's tough to give you a number. On a track without steep banks if I had to guess I'd start with 80 and see how that feels if you've been having success riding with 70 on the road with no issues.

I would start at 100psi and go from there. I say this because you can really get away with much lower pressure on the road, and it also has to do with your tire pressure being a large part of what locks your bead onto the rim. On a 333m track, a 30km/h-ish cruise will keep you perpendicular to the bank. You are most likely to be riding much faster, and often, quite a bit slower. Track racing puts a lot more dynamic force onto a tire than road racing does, and it does it more often. You're more likely to roll a tire on the track than on the road. I would start at 100, see if that's too hard, then drop to 90. You will notice handling issues with lower pressures sooner when on a track.

Then again, the lighter you are, the lower pressure you can get away with.

Is it common to flip your wheels around in order to wear both sides of your tires?.. I know flip flopping the rear is common in FG, but what about front?

Also is it common practice to have two different cogs on your rear to interchange between say a warmup gear and racing gear?..

Yes, that is the purpose of the flip-flop hub. Saves you some time changing cogs. As to the other, I've never considered it as front tire wear is usually negligible, but its sounds like a reasonable idea.

I've always flipped my wheels to even out wear, although back in the late 90s and early 2000s, Vredenstein and Vittoria both made track tires with asymmetrical tread compounds, with a slightly harder inner compound for speed covering 2/3 of the casing, and a softer outside compound for more grip when going slow.

On my training wheels - yes. I routinely flip them. The rear gets flipped depending on what cog I need - since it's a double sided hub. And the front just gets put on with out much thought, so I'm not consistent with which side is which - though I guess in theory it's possible I always put it on the same way.

The race wheels are a different story. My rear disc only has a cog on one side and my five spoke is directional. So, those do not get flipped, and I'm not routinely pulling and regluing the tubulars to even out the wear. Not to mention, Pista speeds are pretty thin and short lasting anyway.

Does anybody have any info on the German's tires? I can't find anything specific and all the pictures are too vague, but keep hearing the TP squad in Tokyo were on Clinchers, which seems wild...