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-   -   Blasptwenty: Overdone, over-complicated mod build for video rig (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1156170)

cudak888 10-01-18 06:36 PM

"The N + 1 is strong in my family." - Luke Bikewalker

I went to the LBS today to put the final threads in the BB so I could tap it with Mike. That went fine.

But - in the process, I was offered:
  1. A gold ladies' '69 or 70 Robin Hood. For dirt cheap. Passed on it for now, but can facilitate for a finder's fee.
  2. A Torrelli without brakes for a price that I won't repeat here lest someone else snatch it - because I'm going back to get it tomorrow.
  3. A repainted Romani with Nuovo Record; shop owner wants the Nuovo and will sell off the frame. Also considering it.
For giggles, here's the Torrelli, and I'll John Wick anyone who tries to snatch it:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...261ce4e99b.jpg

And here's the Twenty's bottom bracket:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3a47643e40.jpg

But that's not quite the interesting part. You guys must be sending the 18" karma my way big time too - and while it isn't a Moulton, also at the shop was this bonkers Riese und Müller/Pacific Birdy BD-1 MkI folder. And if only out of curiosity (and a distinct desire to copy the fork for the Twenty) I snatched it up...for just $5 over what I paid for the Twenty (!)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d5eb448e8b.jpg

All the cables are shot, the rear elastomer bushing for the rear triangle is missing, the derailer is junk, and the freehub pawls won't engage, but I think I did pretty well - and can't wait to see what this rides like - and if there's any sense in copying the fork in 20" (over the top indeed, but why not break the mold?)

I might just throw in a pair of the soft, yellow elastomers just to see what result I get. Granted, that's $30 in elastomers, not including shipping from the UK - the only place where they seem to be available. Ouch.


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20594291)
To be frank, I never liked the way a Twenty rides. Maybe if I tried one with a proper headset, it would be different. I can't put my finger on it. But you may like it, and even if you don't, it will be fine for your purpose.

Twentys and Sportses are common enough that you don't have to feel bad about drewing them in any way. @rhm has ideas about Twentys. He told me to add rake to my fork, and I did so with an incomplete fork gauge, so I'm not sure how well I succeeded, if at all. I did get it to track straight, so there's that.

It's an acquired taste, but I think the one-piece bar has a lot to do with it, even with that horrible nylon bushing (did I mention yet that I smashed into some bushes on a shoot with it because of this? If not, remind me to share the embarrassing story). The one-piece handlebar is like a perfectly-sized mini North Road, and I adore the feel of it. I've ridden the ones with the BMX-ish bars on the separate neck, and they're not comparable at all.

-Kurt

Tamiya 10-01-18 09:53 PM

Nice score on the Birdy, interesting geometry... does the bar stem swing thru an arc when turning?

Profile looks awkward though. For some strange reason, I find Twenty's silhouette strangely sleek & iconic.

cudak888 10-02-18 05:27 AM


Originally Posted by Tamiya (Post 20594291)
Nice score on the Birdy, interesting geometry... does the bar stem swing thru an arc when turning?

Profile looks awkward though. For some strange reason, I find Twenty's silhouette strangely sleek & iconic.


Somewhat, but I really haven't had time to play with it at all, and I want to devote some time to it. Order of businesses today is to get the Torelli and possibly the Romani, and then get the Twenty's BB shell faced over the weekend.

The Twenty, for all its faults, is a great looker. Universal Cycles today even sells an aluminum copycat of it to this day, called - ironically, in Schwinn circles - the Varsity. UK only, far as I know. I'll give them credit too - even though it's a modern take with unicrown fork and all, the overall execution really does pay proper homage to the original (unlike the *cough* Chopper Mk III *cough*).

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7831700786.jpg


-Kurt

noglider 10-02-18 07:14 AM

You made some weird editing error. @Tamiya said that which you quote me as saying. But it's OK.

That Universal Varsity doesn't fold. When I spent two months in the British Isles in 1980, I saw a lot of the Raleigh Shopper which is a Twenty that doesn't fold. Mostly women rode it, literally shopping.

USAZorro 10-02-18 08:46 AM

If you're still sorting issues with Pletscher instability, wouldn't adding a set of mid-rack - mid-stay supports improve things?

Tamiya 10-02-18 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 20595861)
The Twenty, for all its faults, is a great looker. Universal Cycles today even sells an aluminum copycat of it to this day, called - ironically, in Schwinn circles - the Varsity. UK only, far as I know. I'll give them credit too - even though it's a modern take with unicrown fork and all, the overall execution really does pay proper homage to the original (unlike the *cough* Chopper Mk III *cough*).

Intruiging on the Universal Varsity, more so when Raleigh themselves recently marketed a retro Shopper in Red or Dead limited edition... wonder if they're both close cousins from same source under their paint.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...aleigh-shopper


Heh, truth be told I think the Mk III makes the best Chopper for *riding* :D what with its decent V-brakes on alloy wheels and lighter alloy frame. Split saddle is easier to adjust vs banana seat when it's moved several times every outing; ok I miss the gearstick myself but surprisingly others of similar age who remember The Chopper from our childhood don't notice it's omission as much as I.

My my main beef with the MkIII is the awful build quality :( the red paint is ridiculously fragile, the fenders must come pre-rusted from the factory where they've barely misted on the chrome.

noglider 10-02-18 10:29 AM


Originally Posted by USAZorro (Post 20596123)
If you're still sorting issues with Pletscher instability, wouldn't adding a set of mid-rack - mid-stay supports improve things?

I've long wondered if you could do this with bailing wire and turnbuckles, creating tension rather than using a compressive strut. Now that I think of it, I think I saw someone do this long ago.

cudak888 10-02-18 04:19 PM

Will post in another thread (and catch up on this one) but bought the Torelli. Already installed Ultregra dual pivots on it. BB spindle is reversed and the inner ring has been scraping the paint and has thankfully missed the frame.

More later.

-Kurt

jeirvine 10-02-18 04:39 PM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 20588327)


Sounds both complicated and fragile. One of the reasons I chose the Twenty is because the main tube is pretty overbuilt. Good place to start.

That said, I did some sketches yesterday at work. Didn’t draw the gimbal on it though; figured I would start slow.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f71786971.jpeg

There’s also this highly ill-advised idea...

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...48c8eba66.jpeg

Leonardo would be proud of you, for both the drawings and the whole bloody project. Fantastically entertaining. Thanks.

cudak888 10-02-18 10:00 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20595958)
You made some weird editing error. @Tamiya said that which you quote me as saying. But it's OK.

That Universal Varsity doesn't fold. When I spent two months in the British Isles in 1980, I saw a lot of the Raleigh Shopper which is a Twenty that doesn't fold. Mostly women rode it, literally shopping.

Pretty sure the non-folding model was sold as a Twenty as well. I don't mind the folding option, even though it seems bigger folded than unfolded.


Originally Posted by USAZorro (Post 20596123)
If you're still sorting issues with Pletscher instability, wouldn't adding a set of mid-rack - mid-stay supports improve things?

Possibly, but now that the Glidecam arm is on its way, all camera mount development has been temporarily repositioned to the front.


Originally Posted by Tamiya (Post 20596221)
Intruiging on the Universal Varsity, more so when Raleigh themselves recently marketed a retro Shopper in Red or Dead limited edition... wonder if they're both close cousins from same source under their paint.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...aleigh-shopper

Heh, truth be told I think the Mk III makes the best Chopper for *riding* :D what with its decent V-brakes on alloy wheels and lighter alloy frame. Split saddle is easier to adjust vs banana seat when it's moved several times every outing; ok I miss the gearstick myself but surprisingly others of similar age who remember The Chopper from our childhood don't notice it's omission as much as I.

My my main beef with the MkIII is the awful build quality :( the red paint is ridiculously fragile, the fenders must come pre-rusted from the factory where they've barely misted on the chrome.

Took me a bit to find a decent picture of the Red or Dead version. That bottom bracket height and main tube joint with the headtube suggest something very different with the geometry over the original Twenty and the Universal. If anything, the Universal has a more faithful look to the original, as it seems to copy the Twenty's geometry verbatim.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...39d7b694ee.jpg

I'm not surprised the MkIII is the best overall rider. But that oval downtube that isn't on the same plane as the chainstays tends to ruin the look; never mind the saddle itself. Granted, the fellow who did the TdF run with it made it look normal simply by putting the saddle at a normal ride height; why pretend to have a banana seat when it isn't?

Bad build quality is just an excuse to mod the heck out of the thing...


Originally Posted by jeirvine (Post 20597013)
Leonardo would be proud of you, for both the drawings and the whole bloody project. Fantastically entertaining. Thanks.

Either that, or a fool's invention. Feel free to insert all the Phillips Multiplane puns you wish if it fails.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...35739b5d40.jpg

noglider 10-03-18 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 20597448)
Either that, or a fool's invention. Feel free to insert all the Phillips Multiplane puns you wish if it fails.


When I was in college, I worked at a bike shop owned by two co-owners. There was a sign on the cash register that said, "They were just two bicycle mechanics. What made them think that they could fly?"

madpogue 10-03-18 09:18 AM

"Hmmm, what would be a good base model for a human-powered flying machine? Hmmmm?"

(Gazes out window)

"Of COURSE! A window blind!"

cudak888 10-05-18 05:32 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20597847)
When I was in college, I worked at a bike shop owned by two co-owners. There was a sign on the cash register that said, "They were just two bicycle mechanics. What made them think that they could fly?"

Fair enough...

The camera stabilizing arm arrives today. Should prove interesting.

-Kurt

cudak888 10-05-18 04:14 PM

The lunacy begins...now.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e8ca4a3642.jpg

-Kurt

cudak888 10-05-18 10:13 PM

Since the BB should be faced sometime this weekend, I re-laced the rear wheel I bought from RHM with the later Sturmey hub (which I think is an S-RF3, but pre-dates the current offering), which gives me a proper rear wheel to play with:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5a77e12f32.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...685abe0160.jpg

As for the steadicam-style parallelogram rig, I can't really come up with the mount for that until I've figured out whether the replacement front fork will raise or lower the frame itself. It's somewhat within my control and yet, somewhat not - and I want to read up on the trail issues of the Twenty before settling on geometry.

-Kurt

cudak888 10-07-18 06:19 PM

Some progress. Not quite on the lunacy levels that this build will eventually get to, but at least the BB is all done now. Faced down to 73mm as neat as you please...

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4221429d58.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...046de6e388.jpg

-Kurt

BluesDaddy 10-09-18 12:15 PM

I'm uselessly late to this thread but I'll chip in something I did recently. I produced a piece on a runner for our magazine show and I used a GoPro Karma Grip with a Hero 5 Black for a lot of the shots. I rode my 1991 Cannondale SM700 (#C&V content) Admittedly I did have to ride one-handed but it wasn't too hard. I was able to frame up my shots pretty well without a monitor & shot extra just in case.

https://www.wmur.com/article/tuesday...erman/23343108

cudak888 10-15-18 10:09 PM

No pictures, but I'm happy to say that I was able to fit a Cracked Br - I mean, Cook Brothers drive side crankarm onto the Twenty, using a 107mm Shimano UN-55 bottom bracket that I was able to snag on Amazon for cheap. Now I'm after a 110bcd chainring, and I'm thinking of running a 50t just so I have some freedom with the sprocket at the Sturmey end of things.

In the meantime, I found a bit of rectangular steel tubing that I may be able to temporarily mount to the headtube to run some tests. Need to check with Terraferma to see if I can tack it with a few MIG welds it to the headtube without causing major damage if I decide to change the mounting later.


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20597847)
When I was in college, I worked at a bike shop owned by two co-owners. There was a sign on the cash register that said, "They were just two bicycle mechanics. What made them think that they could fly?"

Fair point.


Originally Posted by BluesDaddy (Post 20608132)
I'm uselessly late to this thread but I'll chip in something I did recently. I produced a piece on a runner for our magazine show and I used a GoPro Karma Grip with a Hero 5 Black for a lot of the shots. I rode my 1991 Cannondale SM700 (#C&V content) Admittedly I did have to ride one-handed but it wasn't too hard. I was able to frame up my shots pretty well without a monitor & shot extra just in case.

https://www.wmur.com/article/tuesday...erman/23343108

Nicely done. I did something similar last Wednesday with my Zhiyun Crane V2 (not the Crane 2) while riding the brown Twenty. Like you, one-handed, of course. Worked well, if a bit hard on the wrist, and difficult to use the joystick while maintaining grip.

My whole point is to get away from the low-bitrate GoPro stuff though. It drives me nuts that I'm sitting on a high-bitrate, image stabilized beauty like the GH5 and can't really use it for onboard motion shots (yet) where its presence does the most good.

-Kurt

pastorbobnlnh 10-16-18 04:55 AM


Originally Posted by BluesDaddy (Post 20608132)
I'm uselessly late to this thread but I'll chip in something I did recently. I produced a piece on a runner for our magazine show and I used a GoPro Karma Grip with a Hero 5 Black for a lot of the shots. I rode my 1991 Cannondale SM700 (#C&V content) Admittedly I did have to ride one-handed but it wasn't too hard. I was able to frame up my shots pretty well without a monitor & shot extra just in case.

https://www.wmur.com/article/tuesday...erman/23343108

Joel, great story! We need more news like this and less of what we are constantly barraged with from Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc. It was great to see your name in the credits!

cudak888 10-20-18 11:39 AM

It’s been a while, but here’s the latest. Still sorting out the drivetrain slowly before starting to weld (or braze) bits up front.

The SKS Chainboard may be ugly, but its the only thing close to a full chaincase that I found that could fit. Don’t want any chance of snagging my jeans while riding with the video equipment.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c8ef45237.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b69b1405f.jpeg


cudak888 10-21-18 06:57 AM

SKS Chainboard isn't limited to 48t rings.
 
Ok, here's one for the Internet's history books: Despite the claim (and etched markings) on the back of the SKS Chainboard, the guard is not limited to a 48t maximum gear (the one I have here is marked 46-48t). If anything, it looks to have been engineered to fit up to the 52t standard. Here's a picture of a Sugino Mighty Tour 49t (the largest loose ring/crankset I have at the moment) sitting on the back of the Chainboard. The mounting tabs and screws fit into the two notches on top and bottom and shouldn't really be a problem:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...21f0c43b41.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...366fd9be5a.jpg

From a quick Google search, it seems as if I'm not the only one who wants to go up from 48t with this thing (I'd like to run a 50t) either, and could have benefited from this info. Putting this here for future, frustrated Googlers...

-Kurt

Dan Burkhart 10-21-18 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20590920)
I have been to Halifax and Pictou. (my USCG boat with the official US Representive to the 1975 or 76 Pictou Lobster festival.......great people. An I grew up listening to the Don Messer Jubilee on CBC....as we got Canadian TV better than American in town I grew up in in Montana.

You just aged yourself with that one. I remember it well.
On topic. Fascinating project on the camera mount.

cudak888 10-21-18 05:48 PM

This build seems to have taken an alternate route from "The camera bike" into "The Science of Chainguards."

Nevertheless, one needlessly expensive ($53) trip to an LBS today netted a 52 tooth Rotor chainring. It's the only thing they had in black that wasn't absolute rubbish or a multi-BCD ring. That, and I'm a sucker for CNC. Unfortunately, a pending offer on a 50t ring also went through on eBay before I could cancel it, so my $53 venture became an $80 venture for a stinkin' chainring.

Nevertheless, the 52t ring has allowed me to prove that the 199mm version of the Chainboard can comfortably support a much larger setup than advertised - provided it is for a singlespeed configuration (more on that in a moment):

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4810cf0e7f.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cfd96e60ca.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b1f67dd50f.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...092cc9cfef.jpg

It looks paradoxically good, in a modern sort of way. Plus, I can't wait for the first bike mechanic to look at this thing and wonder what nutjob cooked this up.

But as for fit, I'm beginning to believe that SKS's 48T limit for the Chainboard chainguard is based entirely around the limitations that arise with vertical chain clearance on a derailer-geared bike, plus front derailer limitations. For a singlespeed, this doesn't seem to be an issue.

-Kurt

clubman 10-21-18 07:54 PM

Cook Bros Crank? Alloy rims? Chainguards? Camera Rigs?
A gun-metal powder coat is in order. In for a penny, in for a pound!.

I like how you're taking your time.

cudak888 10-21-18 09:07 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20627238)
Cook Bros Crank? Alloy rims? Chainguards? Camera Rigs?
A gun-metal powder coat is in order. In for a penny, in for a pound!.

I like how you're taking your time.

Flat black, more like it. Not that I'm a fan of flat colors at any rate.

I'm taking my time, but that's mainly as I sold off many of my spares about three years ago. Finding a lousy dustcap for the Sturmey hub is now a difficult chore. Not long ago, I would have had my choice of 10 in a drawer...

-Kurt


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