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-   -   Woe is the Hozan (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1166487)

NoControl 02-15-19 05:36 PM

Woe is the Hozan
 
Have any of you ever successfully repaired or readjusted the Hozan or Cyclo thread rolling head? For some reason mine - after about 50 spokes - decided to not work for me. Now I'm a retired machinist. I got quite the knowledge base on threads and machines, surely, but this bloody Hozan eludes me. I guess what really irritates me the most is that there's no price-point-higher thread roller between the Hozan and the Morizumi. like a $500 dollar version that actually WORKED.

Comments? Advice? Thanks!

TiHabanero 02-15-19 06:11 PM

I believe replacement heads are available, but that is it. No other parts available that I am aware of.

Dan Burkhart 02-15-19 07:12 PM

Replacement heads are available, but it's worth playing with the adjustment before biting the bullet on a new one. The thread on the main body is tapered much like a pipe thread, so moving the nut in or out will adjust the clearance.
I built a lot of wheels using a Hozan before finally buying the Morizumi. I replaced the rolling head a couple of times.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7ed674bc65.jpg

NoControl 02-15-19 08:51 PM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 20796802)
Replacement heads are available, but it's worth playing with the adjustment before biting the bullet on a new one. The thread on the main body is tapered much like a pipe thread, so moving the nut in or out will adjust the clearance.
I built a lot of wheels using a Hozan before finally buying the Morizumi. I replaced the rolling head a couple of times.

Coming from you, Dan, this means a lot. Thank God its not just me. I'm think the Morizumi is next up on plate. Maybe sell a few bikes and break it open (wallet) for a Phil.

wschruba 02-16-19 08:24 AM

Beware that you pretty much need to flood the Hozan's head with oil, or it will wear out in short order. I keep a can next to the ones that I use, and a drop goes on right at the base of the rollers for every spoke. The large nut needs to be turned up or down the head, depending on the spoke you use, as not all blanks (or threaded spokes) are the same diameter, even if they are nominally. Noodle with a sample spoke until you can thread the nipples that you are using with no issues.

Just as an aside, I find that Wheelsmith blanks leave a ton of swarf compared to other brands when I am rolling them. The price of being inexpensive, i guess.

Dean51 02-16-19 09:12 AM

I've had success adjusting a Hozan that was given to me after the prior owner gave up on it. What worked for me was to back off (loosen) the adjustment nut to a point where it just started to leave thread marks on a fresh spoke. Then I tightened the nut a wee bit and tried again on another fresh spoke. 'Did this over and over until I liked the fit of the nipple to the spoke. The key step for me was to use a fresh, unthreaded, spoke each time after adjusting the nut.

In a prior attempt, I rolled over the same threads after each adjustment. With this approach I could get a decent fit on the trial spoke, but attempting to thread a fresh spoke with the same set-up on the Hozan tool was a disaster.

It is probably obvious, but you can do a heap of test rolls with just one spoke. Just cut off the threaded portion, de-bur the cut end, and use the same spoke in the next test.

I've never used my Hozan for a complete wheel build, but it is very handy when I'm short a few spokes to complete a build or make a repair.

Dean

fietsbob 02-16-19 01:26 PM

LBS uses their's like that 1 or 2 spokes for a bike tourist riding the coast.. have not every length needed, in stock ..

NoControl 02-16-19 06:46 PM


Originally Posted by wschruba (Post 20797271)
Just as an aside, I find that Wheelsmith blanks leave a ton of swarf compared to other brands when I am rolling them. The price of being inexpensive, i guess.

That indicates inferior steel or some shortcuts in the manufacturing process, like drawing and/or heat treating. Is this on plain steel spokes? Stainless? Curious...:foo:

3alarmer 02-17-19 03:06 PM

...I've never seen a Wheelsmith spoke that was not stainless.

wschruba 02-18-19 07:56 AM

Aye, Wheelsmith spokes (in this case, the straight-gauge silver ones) are made of stainless.

NoControl 02-18-19 01:18 PM

@3alarmer and @wschruba: what is your impression of the Wheelsmith spokes? I've only ever used DT and Sapim, so I'm not experienced with Wheelsmith. Others are urged to comment on this as well... hey its my thread, and I can derail it if'n I want! :trainwreck:

3alarmer 02-18-19 02:08 PM


Originally Posted by NoControl (Post 20800769)
@3alarmer and @wschruba: what is your impression of the Wheelsmith spokes? I've only ever used DT and Sapim, so I'm not experienced with Wheelsmith. Others are urged to comment on this as well... hey its my thread, and I can derail it if'n I want! :trainwreck:

...I have a collection of them left over from prior projects in a 5 gallon bucket. That's is about all I use any more, because for a while the co-op here had a Phil machine I could use, and when they managed to remove that from practical use, another guy I know with a machine from Asia offered to do it for me for free. I'm trying to use them up before I die. :o

My impression was always that they were made for Wheelsmith by someone else back then, and I've used both those and DT's without noticing any significant differences. Again, these are from probably ten or fifteen years back. I don't know who makes them currently, but the remaining brother has some kind of ongoing blog presence that might tell you.

The only real problems I've ever encountered is with trying to cut to length and roll threads on galvanized steel. That was abad idea to begin with, and I don't use any galvanized steel spokes any more, ever.

3alarmer 02-18-19 02:10 PM

...the blog.

wschruba 02-18-19 04:29 PM

Quality of the Wheelsmith spokes is fine...my observation was simply...that. Simply an oddity, not that they were poor quality, or some such.

NoControl 02-18-19 05:54 PM

Thanks, guys. I'll give the WS spokes a try on my next build.

3alarmer 02-18-19 08:35 PM

...here is the story since 2007. All my spokes are probably from before that time. I'm pretty old.


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