What's considered better? N600 or Campy Triomphe
 

Hi there. I'm going to thin out my bicycle herd. I have a couple of larger frame bicycles (large for me anyway) and one of them has a complete Campagnolo Triomphe groupset on it. I was thinking about keeping that groupset and replacing it with a Shimano N600 groupset save for the rear wheel hub. this is the groupset that came out after the Shimano 600 Ex but just before the 600 index groupset. This is not the Golden Arrow groupset.

So, which of these two groupsets is the more desirable or better performing one, the N600 (non-idex) one or the Triomphe one?

Thanks and cheers

Not a Shimano fanboy, but Shimano 600 derailleurs run circles around Campagnolo Triomphe. The other Triomphe components are pretty nice, but the Triomphe crank has a 116mm BCD which limits chainring replacement options.

Triomphe is great except for the rear derailleur. It's just a little clunky. Instead, use a Victory in the rear.

I like the look of Triomphe hubs/skewers too, but the races aren't Record quality ... and they may be on the heavy side. Still, they'll probably last forever if you take care of 'em.

I think the frame's pedigree can tip the scale too. What is it?

"save for the rear hub" , Hmmm. Not sure exactly the implication.

As stated, Campagnolo has uncommon chainring bolt circle. Nicer finish.
Better brakes, better levers.
Rear derailleur performance goes to Shimano.

The rear rim split and thus I'd have to use a different wheel which means it wouldn't have the N600 hub.

Cheers

Campy Rear Derailleur Geometry
 

Triomphe and Victory have the same pivot and cage geometries which are almost the same as the last NR and first SR derailleurs. Campy adopted the cage geometry of the 2nd generation 4001 Super Record with a published 28T FW cog capacity on the Triomphe and Victory RDs..

SR 4001
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3fea97cecb.jpg
980 - Precursor to the 990, Triomphe and Victory RDs
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...311fafb586.jpg
990 Precursor to the Triomphe and Victory RDs
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...96d5da28b3.jpg
Early Triomphe RD
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...350ffd936c.jpg
Early Victory RD
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...23bd110dfa.jpg
From the front side they look very similar. The rear of the Victory RDs have a very poorly designed part that works like the angle adjusting screw on some derailleurs. The part is made of aluminum and gets easily munged.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...73ec05d1e8.jpg

Frank Berto RIP got on Campy's bad side. One of his comments was to the effect that NR rear derailleurs were very well made and would shift poorly forever!

As JohnDThompson mentioned, Shimano RD run circles around Campy stuff until they finally gave in and started using dropped parallelogram designs.


Victory and Triomphe cones cups and axles were the same as those used on Nuovo Tipo hubs... 2nd tier quality but the better NR parts will interchange.

Miele Man If it's just the rim that's split, why can't you just have it replaced??? :foo:

In the mid 80's or sometime thereabouts, Shimano started using a somewhat transparent brown grease. If a Shimano hub is packed with that original factory grease and still spins smoothly, I leave it alone! It never dries out like the white grease Campy used.

verktyg :50:

Thanks.

I have this other Cammpagnolo rear derailleur that has that same type of toothed derailleur adjustment except that it broke rendering that derailleur useless. Are those toothed pieces available as a replacement part anywhere? Here's the derailleur. Note in this image that piece hasn't broken yet.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4a1063e991.jpg

Thanks and cheers

Campagnolo fanboy here. This is my opinion, meaning that your experience is yours, and my experience is mine. The old NR, SR, etc. before parallelogram design shift well, and run very quietly provided the gear set is closely spaced. With the correct derailleur hanger length, the NR will accommodate a 28t sprocket. Just don't expect to run a 12-28, more like a 15-28 is reasonable, which is what I ran on my Habanero cross frame. Shifted well, and the gearing was just right. All of it shifts well on corncob clusters.

My Victory RD cracked at that adjustable stop piece too, but I just used some JB Weld on it. Works great.

i do not have the parts pages but there is a fair chance the vulnerable part on the Victory mech will work on this unit.

and I will comment that my early 980 rear mech with the black bolts shifted really well, granted my largest cog was a 24.
if I did not like the appearance of the Nuovo Record so much, ( old admiration from when I was very young ) I would have left it on.

i vote fix the damaged rim too. Ensembles always fetch more as a matched set.

Not really, AFAIK. Looks like a candidate for someone with an intact piece and a 3D printer to replicate.

Financially, the Campy stuff will bring a lot more $$$ and overall, performs worse. Easy choice for me on a keeper. One place I like Campy are wheels, in particular, hubs. They always seem to be more durable. So I’d probably keep the Campy wheels.

Campy RD Part
 

Campy used that stop, part # 7116067 on at least one other RD, maybe the first C-Record ???

Here's one for the Victory RD on eBay, probably the same part as used on yours:

https://www.ebay.com/p/11014208707

verktyg :50:

Campy RDs with corncob FWs
 

With the exception of the Gran Turismo and Rally, until the mid 80's, Campy derailleurs were designed for competition. Bikes in the pro peleton rarely had FW sprockets larger than 22T-24T. On corncobs they shifted much better than trying to cover larger ranges.

I'm running a 12-32T 8 speed cassette and 48-38T chainrings with this Shimano 600 Tricolor RD and it shifts like butter.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2b8ccb6779.jpg

But, I've ran a standard Campy NR RD with this 13-31T 5 speed FW and 50-42T chainrings without any problem other than cobby shifting...

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8dd9c490a8.jpg

verktyg :50:

The damaged rim is toast as it has multiple splits of 4 or 5 inches in length.

Cheers

I just happen to have a Sachs 8-speed corncob freewheel could put on the bike if I were to ride flat terraain roads all the time.

Cheers

Even Berto admitted in an article where he tested top end groups that Campy shifted just as well as Suntour on racing corncobs, in some ways better. Berto's gripe with Campy is that he wanted good shifting over touring/alpine ratios, which the Campy design is unsuited for, and with modern gears, even 11-25 is considered on the narrow side since you can get your corncob ratios and alpine gears in one cassette. Racing has moved on from 5/6 speed corncobs, and racing bikes don't always make good general purpose road bikes, but there's nothing wrong with it if you want to ride a period correct race style bike.