This is all wrong. The biggest threat to cyclists is the same thing it is to everyone--Big Foot and UFOs. They're just waiting to catch us unawares.

"It's a cookbook!"

I agree that non-vehicular hazards may indeed be at least, if not more serious and frequent concerns to cyclists.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 21218865)

I have described my lane positioning as situational.When it comes to potholes, the situations are changing virtually instantaneously, and I manuever accordingly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by livedarklions (Post 21218870)

Right, but the risks of doing so vary with the situation. I'm going to avoid riding on a road where these maneuvers by necessity put me at higher risk if I have a routing choice.

There's a tendency to consider low-traffic as being by definition bike-friendly, and I think the roads I'm describing are anything but.

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I frequently have posted about my mindset (link) to avoid such unexpected dangers, especially non-vehicular.

I’m glad you weren’t dogmatic about sidewalk riding, @Leisesturm. I have previously posted to a few threads: This past Christmas Day while visiting those northeastern Metro Detroit suburbs, I took some pictures of the ride. This was on Christmas afternoon, so traffic was light on these roads but during normal times can be heavy,

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...846a274c4d.png

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...434e203bdb.png

The road is two-lanes without shoulder. The sidewalk continously parallels the road with rare side drives. IMO it is a bona fide bikepath,

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d86f2715cd.png

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...73ab73595d.png

even more ameable to cycling than some MUPS I have encountered (see photo of Rock Creek MUP in Washington DC).

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...385d5f6bfc.jpg

Jim,
I feel your pain.
I had to adapt to my environment with 2" tires.
Bail to the sidewalk often....

and if you look at the data you linked, you’ve got a 1-6 chance of dying from heart disease, 1-7 cancer, and 1-28 stroke.

These are all orders of magnitude above the risk from cycling. Thus if the health benefits from cycling
give even the smallest improvement in reducing your risk of heart disease and cancer, you’re way ahead of the game on balance.

Even the figure he quoted for murder is orders of magnitude higher than bikes, so if I get fast enough on my bike to outrun the killer I'm improving my odds.

I seriously can't figure out what point he thought he was proving.

Let me explain it to you. The point is that the health benefits of cycling outweigh the risk of injury.

Sorry, I was agreeing with that point-it was Joeybike that I couldn't figure out. Apologies if that wasn't clear.

For those who decide that bicycling on roads with cars are just too dangerous, I certainly hope their driving habits improves as they now take into consideration other vulnerable road users such as pedestrians and cyclists.

Cycling is one of dozens if not hundreds of ways to get exercise, including a spinning class with zero risk of getting splattered. Just saying. Every time you go for a ride in traffic you put your life into some stranger's hands. Likely that stranger is not even looking through the windscreen. Doesn't matter if heart attacks strike 1 in 6 who live long enough to earn one of those. Unlikely a 20 year old will die of a heart attack yet have the same odds of getting hozed by a motor vehicle during a bike ride. Not certain what the confusion is. I do understand denial. I see denial in politics daily which is equally perplexing.

So if you either drive or walk to the spin class, you have incurred the risk of the trip. The gym where the spin class is could be a fire trap or a germ-ridden cesspool. Where you're all wet is when you start comparing bicycle riding to zero risk activities. There are no such activities, everything has risks.

Seriously, stop trying to make probability arguments. You're out of your depth.

And btw, lots of men in their 50s have heart disease and attacks.

Hey fellas, there's no need to be confused or to argue about what Joey is saying. Let me explain it to you. All our pal Joey is saying is If you don't want to ride a bike, don't ride a bike. That's fine with me, even though I do thousands of miles of impractical bike riding every year.

No, that's not all he's saying, and no one WOULD argue with that. He's very clearly--but not competently--arguing that road riding is unreasonably dangerous. If you don't agree with him, he accuses you of "denial". If all he was saying was don't ride a bike if you don't want to, why would he be trying all these absurd probability arguments?

Well, maybe you're right. I dunno. I was just trying out the old Rodney King "can't we all just get along" argument.

But there is one thing I think all of us can agree on: The surest way to avoid the risks of daily life--the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune--is to be dead. Some of us would rather take their chances.

I like the effort at peacemaking, but someone has a years-long posting history I won't get into.

In the meantime, that's a heck of a screen name. Who's this "They" and have you learned any rug cleaning tips as a result?

WARNING: This YouTube video contains vulgar language and is NOT suitable for work or the easily offended!

That's a fair warning, so I hope the mods don't card you.

I'm a bigger fan of Fargo, so I'll remember not to mention wood chippers around you!

Fargo, as well as the Big Lebowski were among my favorite Coen Brothers.' movies, but their all time best was Miller's Crossing. Watch it in time to celebrate St. Patrick's Day.

Being from the civilized state just to your north, I have to be extremely partial to Fargo, although A Serious Man is more the Minnesota I grew up in.

Burn After Reading is a seriously underappreciated movie. In some ways, the most realistic spy movie ever made.

This one even has a bike joke:

Remember, it is ALWAYS about Ethics!
OK, that is the end of this side trip, let us return to fear and highway/sidewalk danger!

I spent a night in Fargo while riding across the country. My first exposure to a ND city of any size was Minot. Spent two nights there. When I first arrived I went to pick up my General Delivery Mail. Told the clerk behind the counter my last name. She repeated it and asked with a smile "Is that Eye-talian?"

Really like Burn After Reading.

I've passed through North Dakota several times by train. I have never been tempted to stop.

I purposefully went back in 2007 for a week-long, supported tour. One night we spent in the hometown of Lawrence Welk. His homestead (He grew up in a wood paneled sod house.) is preserved as a tourist attraction/museum. We took a shuttle bus out there and got a tour from a niece of his. Saw the very bed where he was born. The next day we did a century to Bismarck. Before reaching the outskirts of town with only a few miles left I would be shocked to learn that we saw 20 moving vehicles. One day we had to ride on I-94 for about 10 miles. It was early in the morning. Got passed by only four cars. Lots of little towns that were dying out as the old folks passed away and the younger ones moved away. Several years ago U.S. Bank was going to move out of the state because it was having so much trouble finding workers. My city has more than twice the population of the entire state. I'd like to go back, if only to ride through T. Roosevelt park.