Kinesis Aithein vs Bowman Palace for budget race bike.
 

Just curious about these two frames. They're both well priced alu framesets designed to go fast, which is good to see, because it's often assumed that if you're on a budget you don't want to go fast. They seem very similar in design and features. Kinesis claims a weight of 1530g and Bowman claims 1260g, but it isn't clear if Bowman is including the fork in that figure.
Has anyone ridden/built up either or both of these? Any opinions?

Is that frame and fork weight or just frame weight?

haven't ridden either but there are a few people here who have both so if you search you will find info. There are also plenty of reviews of on the internet and they generally get mentioned with CAAD, Emonda, Canyon and other top level current alum frames

I have yet to see a sub 1000g aluminum frame, so I'm guessing Bowman's claimed weight is without the fork.

you mean without fork?
Taking caad12 as a reference, the frame is 1048g, a decent fork like ENVE 2.0 are ~350g, give or take a few.
So that Bowman could not possibly at 1260g with fork included.

I ride an Aithein that I bought as a frame and fork, then built up with SRAM Force. It was my first new generation aluminum frame. It is an excellent ride, very stiff and compliant enough for comfort on rides up to 6 or 7 hours. Wide HED Ardennes rims with 25 mm tires make a big difference in comfort on this frame. I compare it favorably to the ride quality of my CAAD 10, the CAAD having slightly greater compliance.

2017 Fuji roubaix frame is -1100 grams, 2016 Fuji roubaix frame is -1200 grams. I personally have ridden the Caad 12, emonda alr, Fuji roubaix. The Caad and the roubaix felt fairly similar(Caad was a bit more comfortable). The emonda h2 geometry just didn't feel to exciting.

Yes, that's what I meant. I had it right the first time but confused myself and edited incorrectly haha

Aithein with force must be a very light bike, especially compared to buying something off the peg at a similar price.

My size 56 Palace frame weighs around 1450 g with the small parts included. The fork was around 390 g uncut. I have the black anodized version, I'd expect the painted ones to be a bit heavier.

If weight is an imperative for your build, you can get lighter aluminium than the Palace (though a new version of frame and fork is in the works, and it should drop some weight). I bought it for the geometry and the handling that was universally praised. I posted a sort of first impressions/review here. Since then I've grown to appreciate the handling even more; it's the type of bike that you can steer by turning the handlebar, but that really responds best to body weight shifts and inputs from the saddle. I'm also fully confident and relaxed riding it no handed, now that I've gotten used to how it responds.

New Palace should be coming soon.

Don't care much for the weight savings (nice to have though) but threaded BB is a big advantage. Might have to get one when they're released.

On the other hand, the current Palace is going for a really good price right now.

As a Kinesis 4S owner who is quite impressed with the ride quality of that frameset, I've entertained the idea of getting the Aithein quite seriously, thinking it would be a great scoot for those hard, mid-range, in-season group rides.

I hadn't thought about it awhile, though, so thanks for the reminder!

It's available for pre-order, December delivery. Same price as the original plus 10% discount for pre-order.

The threaded BB is awesome, and the exchange rate is way better than a year ago when I bought mine - like 20% better. I really shouldn't be following this stuff when I have no intention of buying a new frame.

Current Palace is a good price indeed, as long as you fit either a 50-52 or a 60.