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-   -   Catch all Professional Cycling Chat (Possible Spoilers) (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=973245)

Radish_legs 07-13-17 08:50 AM

Formation of the break is one of the interesting things about bike racing. Particularly on a sprint stage or breakaway stage. But it's something that we usually don't get to see as it happens.

Most sports will change things within the sport to make it more interesting. They will change the rules. For example, the NBA just decided to limit time outs to improve the pace of the game. Baseball is considering a number of rule changes to increase the pace of games. And so forth. The NFL changes its rules all the time.

As far as I can tell cycling never changes anything to make it more interesting. For example, make the teams smaller. Get rid of race radios.

The bicycle industry in the US is suffering. Bicycle use by the young is tanking. The future of cycling looks to be very poor.

PepeM 07-13-17 09:25 AM


Originally Posted by Radish_legs (Post 19715677)
As far as I can tell cycling never changes anything to make it more interesting.

Hammer Series.

TheKillerPenguin 07-13-17 09:28 AM

Annnd, this was a demonstration of why Aru did not give away time to Bardet the other day.

PepeM 07-13-17 09:36 AM

He's still a loser!

Ttoc6 07-13-17 09:42 AM

Anyone see Landa's face after they brought back George Bennet? Stone cold, best look I've seen since the famous Lance look.

Glad it got interesting today.

Grumpy McTrumpy 07-13-17 09:45 AM

I don't agree with the Astana game plan at all. Aru is the only guy in this race who can actually threaten Froome and yet he's clearly content to race for second place. Yeah he got the MJ today, but Sky are still in control of this whole game. 6 seconds is nothing when there is a mostly flat TT on stage 20 where Aru will likely lose more than a minute. If Aru really were serious about contending to win the Tour he would have attacked WAY earlier to get rid of Landa and Nieve. The finish on this stage clearly showed what we already knew, Froome is not super-dominant this year. Sky always seem to have an ace in the hole though. Froome never should have three teammates with him on the final climb when everyone else has none. If they were to isolate him, and then treat the Tour like an actual race for FIRST place instead of just getting on the podium then it would be far more interesting.

The Izoard is the only place left for Aru to do more than token damage. And now, his team will have to work extra hard the next week too. Sky are still running the show. Boring.

Grumpy McTrumpy 07-13-17 09:51 AM

I'm with Lance on the issue of their previous finish. "You don't pull the yellow jersey to the finish like you're his teammate" "Make him pull."

He repeated this so many times and with such force that it was pretty clear that he considered it a major WTF moment (if you actually want to WIN the tour).

PepeM 07-13-17 09:54 AM

Yes, he should have used all his energy making Nieve and Landa chase him so that he had nothing left in the end and everyone else got a free ride while he gets dropped into oblivion. That would have been really smart.

Also, he didn't pull Froome. They worked together. Massive difference.

TheKillerPenguin 07-13-17 10:07 AM

That last ITT looks cool as hell. Super technical and a 1.2k @ 9.5% climb!

Ygduf 07-13-17 10:52 AM

itt: a bunch of cyclists complaining about a stage race being boring every year when the way to win a stage race is usually to be super conservative and only push advantages where you know you have them.

ShutUpLegs 07-13-17 10:57 AM

Sky played the bluff today and nobody called it! You have to give it to Froome and Sky they know what they are doing.

At the end of that stage it was obvious Froome was not feeling it, but you would have never known until that moment and that's because of what sky did on the climbs. Bringing back Contador and Barguil. Then slowly reeling in Cummings, making it seem like Froome was feeling good and wanted the stage win. Landa set a hard pace, which Froome was probably red lined, but in doing so every one thought Froome was feeling good which led to no one attacking till last 300 meters. Had they let Contador on a longer leash and not reel in Cummings with a blistering pace, someone would have attacked earlier exploiting Froome and he would have easily lost a minute plus.

Grumpy McTrumpy 07-13-17 11:00 AM


Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 19716052)
itt: a bunch of cyclists complaining about a stage race being boring every year when the way to win a stage race is usually to be super conservative and only push advantages where you know you have them.

For Sky maybe this is true. It certainly was not true for Armstrong in the first few years. It was never true for Pantani or Hinault. I'd also argue Contador at his peak was never one to shy away from a long-distance crazy attack.

Grumpy McTrumpy 07-13-17 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by ShutUpLegs (Post 19716073)
Sky played the bluff today and nobody called it! You have to give it to Froome and Sky they know what they are doing.

At the end of that stage it was obvious Froome was not feeling it, but you would have never known until that moment and that's because of what sky did on the climbs. Bringing back Contador and Barguil. Then slowly reeling in Cummings, making it seem like Froome was feeling good and wanted the stage win. Landa set a hard pace, which Froome was probably red lined, but in doing so every one thought Froome was feeling good which led to no one attacking till last 300 meters. Had they let Contador on a longer leash and not reel in Cummings with a blistering pace, someone would have attacked earlier exploiting Froome and he would have easily lost a minute plus.

Although I do believe that calling the bluff would have gotten rid of Landa and Nieve, attacking early would probably not have crushed Froome because the slope was much less at that point. The finishing 500m was a ridiculously steep wall, way steeper than anything on the last cat 1 or previous HC climbs. Froome has shown that he can mostly hang on climbs that favor a steady spin. He just doesn't have the super top end that he had last year.

Grumpy McTrumpy 07-13-17 11:15 AM

I'll go out on a limb and try to predict the exact way tomorrow will play out. (This is why I think the Tour is boring)

It's a short stage so there will be huge pressure for a break to go, and eventually one will be established which contains enough no-hopers that it finally gets the Peloton to slow down, but then they get a huge advantage, like 10 minutes.

Then, everyone will look to Astana to drive the bus. In so doing, they will run their guys ragged but not gain back much time on the break. Aru will sit on for most of the stage. Astana sets a tempo which does no damage to the Sky guys by the top of the final climb. Bardet attacks the final descent, gets reeled in on the runout to the line. Winner is out of the break which still have four minutes. The remaining GC contenders all finish together, looking at eachother and their teammates. A fairly large finishing group.

Doge 07-13-17 11:39 AM


Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy (Post 19716086)
For Sky maybe this is true. It certainly was not true for Armstrong in the first few years. It was never true for Pantani or Hinault. I'd also argue Contador at his peak was never one to shy away from a long-distance crazy attack.

There is a reason for that.

Actually I'm not sure if it is just the drugs (or lack of them) or PMs. But certainly the drugs (not Lemond and Hinault of-course).

mattm 07-14-17 02:24 AM


Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy (Post 19715837)
I don't agree with the Astana game plan at all. Aru is the only guy in this race who can actually threaten Froome and yet he's clearly content to race for second place. Yeah he got the MJ today, but Sky are still in control of this whole game. 6 seconds is nothing when there is a mostly flat TT on stage 20 where Aru will likely lose more than a minute. If Aru really were serious about contending to win the Tour he would have attacked WAY earlier to get rid of Landa and Nieve. The finish on this stage clearly showed what we already knew, Froome is not super-dominant this year. Sky always seem to have an ace in the hole though. Froome never should have three teammates with him on the final climb when everyone else has none. If they were to isolate him, and then treat the Tour like an actual race for FIRST place instead of just getting on the podium then it would be far more interesting.

Shoulda, woulda, etc.

From a couch, anything is possible.

mattm 07-14-17 02:27 AM

I think the real story today was Kittel getting in that early break to make sure Matthews didn't get too many sprint points.

It wasn't totally flat, it was a legit break, and not an easy one to get in either. Now that's impressive!

TheKillerPenguin 07-14-17 07:18 AM

This short stage is awesome. I got to show my gf the start and how a breakaway forms and all that. She has a terrible poker face so I'm pretty sure she was actually digging it!

dz_nuzz 07-14-17 07:29 AM

It was neat to see Kittle taking up a sort of Sagan-esque approach to the points.

Was even more cool to see him caught with only 1.5 climbs to go.

Grumpy McTrumpy 07-14-17 08:15 AM

I take it back. Not boring now. It makes no sense at all to me anymore though. Maybe Landa is going off reservation.

topflightpro 07-14-17 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy (Post 19718293)
I take it back. Not boring now. It makes no sense at all to me anymore though. Maybe Landa is going off reservation.

Meh, it was kind of boring until about the last k.

PepeM 07-14-17 09:59 AM


Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy (Post 19716140)
I'll go out on a limb and try to predict the exact way tomorrow will play out. (This is why I think the Tour is boring)

It's a short stage so there will be huge pressure for a break to go, and eventually one will be established which contains enough no-hopers that it finally gets the Peloton to slow down, but then they get a huge advantage, like 10 minutes.

Then, everyone will look to Astana to drive the bus. In so doing, they will run their guys ragged but not gain back much time on the break. Aru will sit on for most of the stage. Astana sets a tempo which does no damage to the Sky guys by the top of the final climb. Bardet attacks the final descent, gets reeled in on the runout to the line. Winner is out of the break which still have four minutes. The remaining GC contenders all finish together, looking at eachother and their teammates. A fairly large finishing group.

Nailed it. :D

Grumpy McTrumpy 07-14-17 10:18 AM


Originally Posted by PepeM (Post 19718584)
Nailed it. :D

Good thing I don't trade stocks any more

Creakyknees 07-16-17 07:22 PM

where's that annual thread asking if a "team attack" is a thing?

today was a good example.

miyata man 07-21-17 01:18 PM

Contador has really been making the most of the more challenging aspects of dealing with his enthusiastic fan base during this TDF.

https://scontent-ort2-1.cdninstagram...41850368_n.jpg https://scontent-ort2-1.cdninstagram...47020544_n.jpg


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