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Club Cycling in Emerging Economies

I think that "third world" is more in need of being defined than "club."

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 21884948)

I think that "third world" is more in need of being defined than "club."

We in the US have not been doing well compared to other nations on a number of metrics. Our technology is not evenly distributed. When you are losing battles I would blame the generals. https://www.americashealthrankings.o...nal-comparison

I met a few club riders in Mexico when I spent a little time there in the seventies. These were both racing clubs that I encountered. The primary difference that I noticed was that some very strong riders were riding lower quality, less expensive bikes than what we in California considered necessary for racing. Only a few had "all-Campy."
Brent

Where I am in Cambodia there are groups of locals that get together and go out cycling for exercise. They are usually groups of friends. With all the different groups, there are several hundred people. I am not involved in any of the groups, but often see them, and occasionally say hello or talk to them. Most ride regular mountain bikes.

The biggest risk here is being hit by vehicles. Many roads are narrow, and people don't obey road rules.

Another risk here is being bitten by dogs.

I have seen python skins which have been shed in bushland areas, but never live pythons.

I have seen a lot of regular snakes. But it is rare anyone gets bitten.

Robbers are rare in small towns and villages, and farming areas, but they can be there. Robbers never rob groups of people. People are normally only at risk of being robbed when there are no witnesses. There are a huge amount of robberies in the big cities. Bag snatching and phone snatching happens a lot. It is smart to not carry or display anything valuable.

Most of those cycling for exercise stick to the main roads. I often cycle on dirt roads and tracks. In the wet weather there is a lot of mud, and in the dry season there is a lot of dust. I prefer the back tracks than the risk of being hit by a vehicle. I ride a fat bike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubewheels (Post 21885903)

Group rides here simply avoid places where they can get robbed and get shot and there's plenty of places to avoid.

I did some amazing solo rides in parts of South Africa where I should probably not have gone. Closed roads, which meant that no one should be there but also that there would be no one there to help. :twitchy:

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbyfv (Post 21886178)

I've wondered about the dogs. Even here with a state wide "leash law" they are a significant hazard.

If dogs bite people here, nothing is normally done about it, so the dogs can bite the next person. In Australia by comparison, if a dog bites someone, the owner normally has to pay a fine, and the dog is normally killed. There is also no organisation to get rid of stray dogs here, and it is common to see dog fights in the street. I know of many people who have been bitten by dogs, some of them children. So you have to have your own defence. The first line of defence is to try to kick aggressive dogs getting too close, but you really don't want them so close you can kick them. I carry a piece of bamboo on my bike to swing at aggressive dogs. I also put stones in my pocket when going in places with aggressive dogs, to throw at them. Dogs normally keep far enough away to avoid being hit. It is common for local people to throw stones or other things at dogs, so send them away.

To put it in perspective, for every dog that chases people and barks at them, there may only be one in a thousand that will actually bite. But if you get bitten once, that is too often. Many dogs here have rabies and other infections.

I normally ride my bike faster than many local people on bikes. Dogs chase fast moving bikes more than slow moving bikes.

Many people here eat dog meat. There would be even more dogs if people didn't eat them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubewheels (Post 21887142)

I never got chased by a dog for some strange reason and my route often takes me to neighborhoods where dogs are roaming the streets freely.

It would be interesting to know if the dogs are different there, or you are different to me.

How fast do you ride? A dog's natural instinct is to chase an animal that is running away. It seems dogs chase cyclists that ride fast, much more than cyclists that ride slow.

How tall are you? Could you appear like a local to dogs? I am a bit taller than the average European man, and fat challenged. Many children that don't know me, call me a giant. Most of my female friends are between one third and one half of my weight. I also have a beard, which is greying. I clearly stand out as different to dogs. Many dogs are scared of me, and that may be a reason why they chase me.

A bit of trivia. There are some monkeys here, and monkeys are scared of me. I am bigger than the other people they have seen, and have a beard.

Edit: It seems like you are in the city. I am in a small town, and often cycle out to farming areas. Dogs in cities see many more people. That may be a contributing factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubewheels (Post 21887199)

I do much more solo rides than group rides here in the Philippines and have actually disguised my already dirt cheap gravel bike to look old and dirty. Even my cycling clothes have mud splatters on it and getting dark around the edges I didn't bothered to de-stain. I still wash with detergent but I just leave the stains on so even my clothes look old and dirty.

It might be important when riding in a poor country to make yourself unattractive to thieves, literally make yourself look like a poor person, your bike and clothes dirty, etc. Helps you blend in better as opposed to standing out. Because many bike commuters here do have ugly and dirty bikes, and even dirty manual labor work clothes and ride wearing flip flops. That's one reason why I also ride with flip flops as footwear.

I am not so concerned about the clothes, but don't carry anything valuable. I carry enough money for a few days. I don't normally carry a phone or camera, or anything else that might get the attention of potential thieves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbyfv (Post 21887243)

Sounds as if it might require an extra measure of commitment for people to participate in club cycling as we know it in the US!

Are you talking about foreigners or locals?

For foreigners, it is just a matter of being aware of the risks and being sensible.

Most locals do a lot less in a day than we would. Many spend a lot of time just lying around doing nothing. A large proportion of people don't want to put in the effort to exercise. But there are some who do.

Most girls wont go very far alone, as bad things may happen to them. So most girls only go cycling in groups. Even girls going to school, go with their friends who live near by. It is not as safe here for girls, compared to Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubewheels (Post 21887488)

Dressing down gives me more routing options and I can even repeat the same routes many times a week without catching attention.

Try to look like the locals. I dress myself down and my bike to look like min wage commuters because they consist of the majority of riders here in our roads. Thieves don't bother with them and I don't like to take any chances even if the chances are fairly low.

I can't look like a local. I am taller, and more than double your weight. The children call me a giant. Locals don't grow this big.

You would not break bikes as much as I do.

There are also advantages. I am bigger than any would be thieves. One sane Asian would not take me on, because of my size. That doesn't rule out large gangs, or people on drugs.

Are you in the city? I think the city is different from small towns and rural areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbyfv (Post 21887570)

I was wondering more about the local population, if there were groups that rode together for respectable distances on what we'd consider normal equipment. Sounds as if that might be a challenge, at least in the places you two guys live. Maybe MTB is more popular? At least you wouldn't have to ride through raw sewerage.

Where I am, there are a lot of groups go out at about 4 pm, after work, and come back at maybe 6 pm. Some groups have fitter riders than others. Some groups might do 40, 50, or 60 km in an evening. Obviously less fit riders do not go as far.

Over 99% of bikes used for exercise are normal mountain bikes. Most regular bikes for just getting around, are ladies bikes, mostly imported second hand from Japan.

You don't normally have raw sewage here. But in the wet season, it floods a in many places, and you can only imagine what is in the water.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubewheels (Post 21888765)

the worst you can run into this country are the armed rebel factions or even Islamic terrorist factions.

There are no terrorists or warring groups here. There are probably a higher proportion of Muslims here, but they are nice people, living in peace and harmony.

The worst here are robbers and drug users.

In the cities, there are a lot of robberies. In most rural areas, there are much less robberies. There are certain parts of the country where it is less safe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubewheels (Post 21887199)

I avoid routes that can have sparse population / traffic when riding solo. It's not just street crime I'm worried about but motorists who have bloodlust for cyclists. They are much more likely to harass cyclists if no one is around.

I do much more solo rides than group rides here in the Philippines and have actually disguised my already dirt cheap gravel bike to look old and dirty. Even my cycling clothes have mud splatters on it and getting dark around the edges I didn't bothered to de-stain. I still wash with detergent but I just leave the stains on so even my clothes look old and dirty.

It might be important when riding in a poor country to make yourself unattractive to thieves, literally make yourself look like a poor person, your bike and clothes dirty, etc. Helps you blend in better as opposed to standing out. Because many bike commuters here do have ugly and dirty bikes, and even dirty manual labor work clothes and ride wearing flip flops. That's one reason why I also ride with flip flops as footwear.

There has been group rides I've seen where everyone is wearing fairly ugly clothes, dirty bikes, and flip flops footwear. Ironically, those are rarer cases. More often, group rides will consist of riders out to show off their kits so naturally, they keep things clean and looking nice and expensive. But they really stand out in the poor backdrop of a poor country. If you can dress down a bit and keep some dirt on the frame and even clothes, it really helps to blend in better. Perhaps, some close-fitting non-cycling apparel, MTB cleats (because they look like regular shoes), etc.

If you may have issues with aerodynamics with "derelict" looks in keeping up with a fast group, you really do need to push harder, adapt!

Oh boy. Are you Filipino, or an expat living here? Where do you ride? I ask because you exaggerate so much it's funny. We are a poor country, granted, and a lot of things are crappy, but you make it sound like going out to ride here is like stepping out into no-man's land in a war zone.

Yeah, you have to deal with traffic but roads here in Manila and its outskirts are generally good. (that massive pothole in your photo is a rare exception and surely is on a badly neglected rural side road?) You just need to stick to your line and look before you change direction: motorcycles passing you are your biggest enemy. You are right though about the lack of cycling lanes, but that has somewhat changed since the pandemic started.

As for crime- I have heard stories of cyclists getting mugged, but it's rare; I have been cycling solo for over 5 years and frequently traverse sparsely-populated areas, but I have never ran into trouble. I ride a CAAD8 in complete and proper road cycling gear (clean- no stains - that would just be fugly), maybe would-be thieves know mine is not a super-expensive bike or maybe I'm just lucky? Besides, I see a lot of solo Rapha and Sidi-clad Mamils on titanium and Colnagos; if they were so afraid for their bikes and lives, they wouldn't be going out, would they? Is is safer to be out with a group? Yes. But riding solo is not the death wish you make it out to be.

I think that this is my first post on BF. I felt compelled to challenge your posts with what I actually see on the road as a cyclist. And what I see is fine, with cycling in all its forms vibrant and growing. There's a lot of room for improvement, yes, but it is nowhere near the beyond-all-hope dystopian landscape you describe.

Old thread with new title? :foo:

Quote:

Originally Posted by iterax (Post 21901810)

I ask because you exaggerate so much it's funny.

We assumed. Thank you for your confirmation on that point and on the additional input!