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-   -   Campagnolo crank question. (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1213037)

stardognine 09-15-20 12:39 PM

Campagnolo crank question.
 
I know very little about Campagnolo, yet still find myself using 8-speed Veloce, on a ‘97 Bianchi Veloce (the Dedacciai one).

I can buy a Racing Triple pretty reasonably-priced, but trying to find out ahead of time, if I’ll need a longer BB? 🤔

If not, I can drop in most any bike shop, and have them change my cranks, but I’d rather not show up needing a longer one, and not having it, especially if it’s “common knowledge”, lol. 🙄😁

Thanks for any help. ✌️

fietsbob 09-15-20 01:12 PM

I have a few 'Race Triples' all uses the 111 BB I think the right arm of the double of the same years is changed to only need 1 BB

but I don't own a double too..


their 115 is for oversize seat tubes (bigger than 9/8" seat tubes)

stardognine 09-15-20 02:04 PM

I’m probably fine then, thanks much. 👍 Heck, I might just grab the correct crank puller, just so I can play with different chainrings, but for now, I can live with a 30t granny just fine. 😎

Andy_K 09-15-20 02:27 PM

I've got Racing Triples on most of my bikes. I always swap in a Shimano UN55 cartridge bottom bracket. I'm not terribly picky about chainline on triples, so I've kind of winged it on length. I've got several using 107, but I think that's short. I mostly use the bigger cogs, so as long as the rings stay away from the chainstay I'm OK with that. The Campy catalog says 111. I think I picked 107 based on an idea the the different taper of a Shimano BB would push the rings out a bit. I'm not as convinced of that as I once was. I can tell you 107 works for me.

Worst case, if you get it to the shop and the chainrings are too close with your current bottom bracket, they can probably sell you a UN55 in a length that would work. Depending on the shop they may press you to match the catalog spec.

stardognine 09-15-20 04:49 PM

Well, that sneaky rascal seller upgraded me to a 10-speed Record triple, with some small cosmetic issues, for not much more money. 😎😁😎 I have no idea of it’s value yet, but I’m aware it’s a more preferable crank. 😉
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a838623fc.jpeg

stardognine 09-15-20 04:52 PM

Forgot to say, I got the big 53t chainring, along with a 42 & 30. Watch out, slowpokes!!! 😁

fietsbob 09-15-20 05:16 PM

I believe record used a different BB* than the lesser one that we Lumpen Prolos get.. *asymmetric ..

I put a 52-42-26 on my old cable over the BB frame , a 50-40-24 wouldn't work its on my cable under the BB frame,,

(both came with 30t inner chainrings ) ..

stardognine 09-15-20 05:51 PM

Yeah, I was just reading about symetric and asymetric BBs, for Campagnolo. Other than that, I thought I understood everything well enough. 🤔🙄😉

I think I’ll just wait till I can buy a BB that absolutely positively works with this crankset. 😉

Andy_K 09-15-20 10:41 PM


Originally Posted by stardognine (Post 21696181)
Yeah, I was just reading about symetric and asymetric BBs, for Campagnolo. Other than that, I thought I understood everything well enough. 🤔🙄😉

I think I’ll just wait till I can buy a BB that absolutely positively works with this crankset. 😉

You may find that makes your crankset much more expensive. The crankset looks like about 2004 and the catalog shows an asymmetric cartridge bottom bracket.

stardognine 09-16-20 10:14 AM


Originally Posted by Andy_K (Post 21696582)
You may find that makes your crankset much more expensive. The crankset looks like about 2004 and the catalog shows an asymmetric cartridge bottom bracket.

Well, at least now I know I need to buy an asymmetric. Thanks for your help. 👍

I’m actually on my way to the bigger local bike shop, to see about getting it done, since I have no tools for this. And now I know I need to mention to the mechanic, that I’ll need a BB, and that’ll save some possible frustration, on both ends. 😁😉

Thanks again. 👍

Andy_K 09-16-20 12:36 PM


Originally Posted by stardognine (Post 21697175)
Well, at least now I know I need to buy an asymmetric. Thanks for your help. 👍

I’m actually on my way to the bigger local bike shop, to see about getting it done, since I have no tools for this. And now I know I need to mention to the mechanic, that I’ll need a BB, and that’ll save some possible frustration, on both ends. 😁😉

Thanks again. 👍

If your LBS has a mechanic that knows vintage bikes, I'm sure they can help you through this. I don't think an asymmetric bottom bracket is absolutely required. If you can find the proper dimensions for the original bottom bracket you can achieve the same effect with a spacer on the drive side. You just need to figure out what size spacer, which the shop could do experimentally if you can't find the information. An old thread I just saw suggests a 1 mm spacer will do the trick. There;s a guy on eBay who sells bottom bracket spacers (including Italian-sized) for a couple of dollars if your LBS doesn't have any.

stardognine 09-16-20 02:12 PM

^^^ It was kinda like that, plus I read some more on the web before I got there, and saw where several folks used their old BB. So I did. 😁

The only issue now, is my front derailleur needs adjusting a touch, and I’m not sure I should trust myself with that job. 🤔😁😉

I didn’t swap any chainrings yet, obviously, but I kept the 39t because it’s a Salsa, and the 48t because it’s one of those fancy French TA rings. 😎
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9f044f8d4.jpeg

stardognine 09-16-20 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by Andy_K (Post 21695861)
I've got Racing Triples on most of my bikes. I always swap in a Shimano UN55 cartridge bottom bracket.

No need for that here. I just paid the bike shop $15 to remove the old cranks, crossed my fingers, & installed the Records. While the spindle was nekkid, I removed some string that got picked up, hiding down behind the crank, and it made it spin better than new, more like a well-broken-in BB would. Bonus! 😎

The only issue is, I still need a Campagnolo crank puller, to play around with chainrings. But I got my granny workin’ so I’m a happy camper.

Thanks again, guys. ✌️

jiangshi 09-16-20 02:32 PM

Record triple uses a 111mm bb. Double use a 102.

dddd 09-16-20 09:44 PM

This version of Record Triple crank uses a standard/generic crank puller, no?

You'd have to go back to a C-Record variant having left-hand extractor threads on the (and only on the non-driveside) for any special puller to be needed.

stardognine 09-17-20 09:54 AM


Originally Posted by dddd (Post 21698383)
This version of Record Triple crank uses a standard/generic crank puller, no?

You'd have to go back to a C-Record variant having left-hand extractor threads on the (and only on the non-driveside) for any special puller to be needed.

Are you saying this one is the same as Shimano cranks, in that regard? Or that it uses a standard Camp. crank puller?

I really didn’t know they switched stuff so much, just always heard you have to be careful with Italian-threaded things. Campagnolo is “normally” not in my price-range, lol, so I never really paid attention. 🙄🤔😁

It’s cool to know the BB shell is English-threaded. I can use a UN-55 in it, down the road, if needed, but this one’s VERY nicely broken in, should still have a few miles left on her. 🙂

dddd 09-17-20 02:55 PM


Originally Posted by stardognine (Post 21698921)
Are you saying this one is the same as Shimano cranks, in that regard? Or that it uses a standard Camp. crank puller?

I really didn’t know they switched stuff so much, just always heard you have to be careful with Italian-threaded things. Campagnolo is “normally” not in my price-range, lol, so I never really paid attention. 🙄🤔😁

It’s cool to know the BB shell is English-threaded. I can use a UN-55 in it, down the road, if needed, but this one’s VERY nicely broken in, should still have a few miles left on her. 🙂

Yeah, only the French makers like Stronglight and TA used threading that is proprietary in a contemporary sense. Campag did have left-handed extractor threading on those C-Record arms, but you didn't need any puller because of the self-extracting bolt hardware!

So go ahead and use your old Sugino or Park crank puller on the 10s Campagnolo arms, it'll fit perfectly.

stardognine 09-17-20 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by dddd (Post 21699460)
Yeah, only the French makers like Stronglight and TA used threading that is proprietary in a contemporary sense. Campag did have left-handed extractor threading on those C-Record arms, but you didn't need any puller because of the self-extracting bolt hardware!

So go ahead and use your old Sugino or Park crank puller on the 10s Campagnolo arms, it'll fit perfectly.

Awesome, thanks for enlightening me. 👍

I’m kinda slow responding, because of some weirdness riding through Sacramento today. They like to work on several streets and/or roads at once, and apparently don’t care about commuters. 🤔🙄😉

I’m back in Davis now, decided to head back closer to the ocean again. 😎 That’s part of the reason for the crank upgrade, it gets kinda hilly here & there. 😁

Road Fan 09-17-20 09:27 PM


Originally Posted by stardognine (Post 21696084)
Well, that sneaky rascal seller upgraded me to a 10-speed Record triple, with some small cosmetic issues, for not much more money. 😎😁😎 I have no idea of it’s value yet, but I’m aware it’s a more preferable crank. 😉
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a838623fc.jpeg

Ok, your Record Triple DEFINITELY wants the Campy 111 mm Assymetrical BB. There's the AC-S model, the carbon-fiber Record, and a very nice black one originally sold as Centaur. There was also a 111 mm Pista BB ir Record level, but this was not assymmetrical. Also, the Record is significantly lighter, and will give a lower Q than a Racing T. It's a much more refined design.

See what you find on Ebay, or in the road bike marketplace sections of this and other Forums. The bearings are replacable, though I've never done it. I've overhauled cup and cone BBs of a wide range of vintages, but not cartridge.

Road Fan 09-17-20 09:30 PM


Originally Posted by jiangshi (Post 21697710)
Record triple uses a 111mm bb. Double use a 102.

Yep, ancient wisdom (from one of the ancient's) is correct!

Other solutions may work or they may not.

Road Fan 09-17-20 09:43 PM


Originally Posted by stardognine (Post 21698921)
Are you saying this one is the same as Shimano cranks, in that regard? Or that it uses a standard Camp. crank puller?

I really didn’t know they switched stuff so much, just always heard you have to be careful with Italian-threaded things. Campagnolo is “normally” not in my price-range, lol, so I never really paid attention. 🙄🤔😁

It’s cool to know the BB shell is English-threaded. I can use a UN-55 in it, down the road, if needed, but this one’s VERY nicely broken in, should still have a few miles left on her. 🙂

First, Campagnolo sells on the world market and has for decades. So they have made Italian thread, English thread, French, and Swiss. Japanese bikes use English for teh most part. You can get hung up with the BB to frame interface. If your BB shell is 68 mm wide you need English. If it's 70 mm you need Italian. Check the thread diameters and directions, and especially part markings to see what you have and need. Pedals came in English and French - not interchangeable. Italian threading mostly came on high-end Italian-made frames, such as Cinelli, Mondonico, et cetera.

The Campy and Shimano BBs may have the same spindle length, but the spindle ends may not be the same length. Both companies are shy about publishing those dimensional details, though handbooks such as Sutherland's have collected data and printed it. I don't know which problems your installation has, if any, nor if your discrepancies from "ideal manufacturer's fit" are going to cause any real problems. I know that when I can use parts that line up to each other as Sutherland's says they should, I have a better-running bike!

AJI125 09-18-20 04:58 AM

I think this is probably covered in the above, but it looks like a circa 2003, which takes a 111mm BB as mentioned. Here's the catalog picture for the 2003 Record Triple and the Tech Specs sheet for the BBs that go with the Triple. The picture isn't clearly asymmetric but I'm not sure if it's drawn to scale. I actually have a 111mm Token ISO BB on the way for my Racing T (mid-90s though). Whenever I get that installed (probably be a while) I'll try and remember to add another reply.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...67a8c738ef.jpg
2003 Record Triple
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1b9a41a517.jpg
2003 BBs for Triple Chorus/Record

stardognine 09-18-20 07:40 PM

Well, somehow, this was bound to get confusing, I guess. 🤔😁

Remember, this was a 1997 Veloce double, which is 111 symmetrical. It looks like this Record triple takes ( or should take) a 111 asymmetrical. So this is another case of them being “sometimes” interchangeable, like I mentioned reading about online. 🙂


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