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-   -   Was there a "Jump the Shark" moment for high flange hubs? (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1181070)

uncle uncle 08-13-19 08:56 PM

Was there a "Jump the Shark" moment for high flange hubs?
 
I've always liked the look of high flanged hubs... but, truth be told, I've become a heavy swooner for 70's bicycle aesthetics. I just have a few questions to ask others with better knowledge and memories than myself, 1) was there a definitive year when low flange hubs truly became a design detail to signify that a wheel was "modern", and 2) was there some written word, like a voice (or pen) within the bicycle circles of the time, who reviewed high flange hubs verses low flange hubs, and made their determinations known, and in doing so, defined a "jump the shark" moment for high flange hubs?

thinktubes 08-13-19 10:01 PM

More worried about finding "short stem" presta tubes...

Doug Fattic 08-13-19 10:22 PM

High flange hubs (I love the look) started to go out with the beginning of free hubs. They were totally gone when freewheels were no longer being used because 8 speed cassettes became the norm.

Salamandrine 08-13-19 10:37 PM

No, not a single moment. Both high and low flange were available throughout the 70s. Eddy preferred low flange, IIRC... Popularity of high flange slowly waned. By the early to mid 80s, mostly the attitude was sort of a bored, "Why bother?", but there was no jump the shark moment. Whatever technical advantage they were at one time thought to provide was slowly deemed irrelevant.

Lascauxcaveman 08-14-19 01:05 AM

I'm guessing low-flange hubs can be made stronger, lighter. Don't know how to calculate weight of the the extra spoke length involved, but I'm guessing it beats the extra flange diameter by a few grams.

ironwood 08-14-19 02:21 AM


Originally Posted by Doug Fattic (Post 21074602)
High flange hubs (I love the look) started to go out with the beginning of free hubs. They were totally gone when freewheels were no longer being used because 8 speed cassettes became the norm.

Grand Bois and Sun XCD stil lsell them, so they're not totally gone.

cudak888 08-14-19 05:54 AM


Originally Posted by ironwood (Post 21074687)
Grand Bois and Sun XCD stil lsell them, so they're not totally gone.

Because C&V'ers wanted modern high-flange hubs and were willing to pay for them. These two brands delivered.

Both of those products were introduced to the market less than 15 years ago; they didn't continue the trend through the eras.

-Kurt

big chainring 08-14-19 05:55 AM

Around '75-76. Small flange hubs were the trend. I remember ordering a pair of Campy small flange hubs from an ad in Bicycling or Bike World. $45 a pair. Retail back then was about $80. Took about 6 weeks for delivery.

About the same time the Hi-lo flange rear hub was popular too. That was popularized by frame builder Hugo Rickert at the '72 Olympics.

steelbikeguy 08-14-19 06:11 AM

As noted, it seemed to be less of a sudden change and more of a gradual shift.

I've got a 1974 Raleigh catalog as well as a 1976 Raleigh catalog. In the '74 catalog, all of the bikes with dropped bars were sporting high flange hubs. Here's the page for the Team Professional, the top of the line bike:

https://live.staticflickr.com/8421/2...4e01cc_c_d.jpg


By 1976, the Team Professional was fitted with small flange hubs, while the remainder of the line-up were shown with high flange. To me, this suggests that small flange were the more desirable version.

https://live.staticflickr.com/8605/2...1c63c6_c_d.jpg

I'll admit that I started building my wheels with small flange hubs at this time too.... I guess I'm just a sucker for good marketing (as evidenced by the fact that I currently own a Team Pro)


Steve in Peoria

bikemig 08-14-19 06:22 AM


Originally Posted by uncle uncle (Post 21074501)
I've always liked the look of high flanged hubs... but, truth be told, I've become a heavy swooner for 70's bicycle aesthetics. I just have a few questions to ask others with better knowledge and memories than myself, 1) was there a definitive year when low flange hubs truly became a design detail to signify that a wheel was "modern", and 2) was there some written word, like a voice (or pen) within the bicycle circles of the time, who reviewed high flange hubs verses low flange hubs, and made their determinations known, and in doing so, defined a "jump the shark" moment for high flange hubs?

I'm totally with you when it comes to 70s era bikes. They have a classic look with high flange hubs, chrome socks, and half or full chromed fork. Plus they usually have eyelets and take standard (now long) reach brakes which means you have a decent change of fitting a 32c tire. Plus those 70s era bikes tend to be reasonably priced.

One downside is the lack of water bottle braze ons but a camelbak takes care of that for a long ride. Another potential downside is the 120 mm rear which limits you to 5 in the back.

USAZorro 08-14-19 07:01 AM

I saw the thread title, and expected that someone had encountered an EXTREMELY High Flanged hub, and was hoping to see the picture. (this because of my understanding of the meaning of the phrase, "Jump the Shark") Hoping there's someone who can oblige my curiosity. :) :thumb:

tiger1964 08-14-19 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by uncle uncle (Post 21074501)
I've always liked the look of high flanged hubs... /// was there a definitive year

For me, somewhere around 2065. My daily ride is LF but those just seem so much easier to find. For other bikes most of my wheels are HF and I hope to keep them that way.

rustystrings61 08-14-19 07:35 AM

My personal memory is that high flange was IT, and ONLY high-flange would do. Sad but true - c.1975, the criteria for a good bike in my circle was alloy cotter-less crank (no matter how chintzy a swaged unit it might be!), chrome socks on the front forks, quick-release hubs, and above all high-flange. That's what all the magazines said, right?

By 1978 or so, when I got my first custom wheels, I was ready to go from high-flange Normandy Luxe Competitions to low-flange Weyless sealed-bearing hubs, because if low-flange was good enough for Eddy Merckx, well ...

Velo Mule 08-14-19 08:24 AM

I think the bike business is a lot like other businesses were fashion is important. There are the trend setters, like Merckx and then we all follow. You can see this with a lot of trends in the bike business. Skinwall tires are another example. As for a moment in time, I don't think so unless there was a Huffy or something sporting big, high flange hubs.

Kabuki12 08-14-19 08:26 AM

I have Campy High Flange hubs on a few of my bikes and they are truly my favorites.Of course the Record are the nicer ones but the Tipo look nice and roll reasonably smooth. Joe joesvintageroadbikes.wordpress

ksryder 08-14-19 08:29 AM


Originally Posted by USAZorro (Post 21074825)
I saw the thread title, and expected that someone had encountered an EXTREMELY High Flanged hub, and was hoping to see the picture. (this because of my understanding of the meaning of the phrase, "Jump the Shark") Hoping there's someone who can oblige my curiosity. :) :thumb:

I think OP is using "jumping the shark" to mean "became unfashionable" which is not what it means.

It means "this once good thing has now became absurd and dragged out or has crossed over into stupidity and irrelevance."

It comes from an episode late in the run of Happy Days involving an absurd plotline in which Fonzie jumps over a shark while water skiing. It is generally recognized as the period when the show went into a rapid decline in quality.

Source: five seconds on google.

rando_couche 08-14-19 08:42 AM


Originally Posted by steelbikeguy (Post 21074772)
As noted, it seemed to be less of a sudden change and more of a gradual shift.

I've got a 1974 Raleigh catalog as well as a 1976 Raleigh catalog. In the '74 catalog, all of the bikes with dropped bars were sporting high flange hubs. Here's the page for the Team Professional, the top of the line bike:

https://live.staticflickr.com/8421/2...4e01cc_c_d.jpg


By 1976, the Team Professional was fitted with small flange hubs, while the remainder of the line-up were shown with high flange. To me, this suggests that small flange were the more desirable version.

https://live.staticflickr.com/8605/2...1c63c6_c_d.jpg

I'll admit that I started building my wheels with small flange hubs at this time too.... I guess I'm just a sucker for good marketing (as evidenced by the fact that I currently own a Team Pro)


Steve in Peoria

To my eye, the '74 is a much better looking bike overall and it's not just the hubs. Some bikes just look "right" and that's one of them.

SP
Nwpt, OR

steelbikeguy 08-14-19 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by USAZorro (Post 21074825)
I saw the thread title, and expected that someone had encountered an EXTREMELY High Flanged hub, and was hoping to see the picture. (this because of my understanding of the meaning of the phrase, "Jump the Shark") Hoping there's someone who can oblige my curiosity. :) :thumb:

There was a post-war period when the fashion for high flange hubs was more extreme than the conventional Campy, Normandy, etc., hubs of the 70's.

The Harden "Bacon Slicer" hubs come to mind.
Harden Hubs

Curtis Odom has done some modern hubs that seem inspired by these. Here's a shot of a show bike by Cherubim that is sporting the Curtis Odom hubs, on display at the 2015 NAHBS.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7586/1...51569d_c_d.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/7597/1...5d0cb7_c_d.jpg


Steve in Peoria

Last ride 76 08-14-19 09:11 AM

Jumping the shark in VT, Spring 1975
 
And then there were those of us who thought about it "scientifically". In 1974 my wheels were high flange, it's what "everybody" rode. Over the winter, I tied and soldered the 3x db spokes of my wheel 36h Record hf hub, with Arc-en-Ciel rim. I built a radial 32h db spoked wheel on a Record lf hub using a Medaille d' or rim. That was my race set up from then on. High rear, Low front. :D

gugie 08-14-19 09:29 AM

Here ya go:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...041298abfa.jpg

USAZorro 08-14-19 10:16 AM


Originally Posted by steelbikeguy (Post 21075020)

That's what I'm talking about! :thumb:

imakecircles 08-14-19 10:54 AM


Originally Posted by steelbikeguy (Post 21074772)
As noted, it seemed to be less of a sudden change and more of a gradual shift.

I've got a 1974 Raleigh catalog as well as a 1976 Raleigh catalog. In the '74 catalog, all of the bikes with dropped bars were sporting high flange hubs. Here's the page for the Team Professional, the top of the line bike:

https://live.staticflickr.com/8421/2...4e01cc_c_d.jpg


By 1976, the Team Professional was fitted with small flange hubs, while the remainder of the line-up were shown with high flange. To me, this suggests that small flange were the more desirable version.

https://live.staticflickr.com/8605/2...1c63c6_c_d.jpg

I'll admit that I started building my wheels with small flange hubs at this time too.... I guess I'm just a sucker for good marketing (as evidenced by the fact that I currently own a Team Pro)


Steve in Peoria

Ugh, the front quick release position on that '76!

steelbikeguy 08-14-19 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by gugie (Post 21075089)

wait a second, you can't drop that kind of bike porn in our laps and not tell us anything about it!!

is it new or vintage?
Who made it?
how did you get it?

The whole "let's rivet some big flanges to a hub shell" thing is a curious style of hub, and is something I was searching for when I offered the Harden Bacon Slicers as an example. Thanks for reading my mind and coming up with an answer!

Steve in Peoria

billytwosheds 08-14-19 11:10 AM

For everyone who came to the thread looking for sharkjumpy hubs.

Phil Cheese Shredder hubs -- not from the 70's but geesh.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...82bf18d814.jpg

steelbikeguy 08-14-19 11:23 AM


Originally Posted by imakecircles (Post 21075210)
Ugh, the front quick release position on that '76!

The '74 catalog also shows the QR skewer lever pointed down, although the on-topic high flange helps obscure the weirdness.

A person might be charitable and say "well, they just happened to have one or two bikes slip through with that mispositioned QR lever". Unfortunately... that ain't the case.

The 1974 Raleigh Pro, although it also puts the lever on the bike's right side:
https://live.staticflickr.com/8009/2...fe4713_c_d.jpg


The 1974 Raleigh International:
https://live.staticflickr.com/8034/2...e66eda_c_d.jpg


The image of the Competiton is different, and might be obscuring the view of an offending skewer. I'll make the presumption of innocence and not show the image.


The 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport:
https://live.staticflickr.com/8422/2...02c932_c_d.jpg

It's pretty hard to see the skewer in an image this size, so here's a link to the full resolution shot, if you are curious....
https://live.staticflickr.com/8422/2...410d7f_o_d.jpg


The 1974 Raleigh Super Course Mk. II (I do love that green!)
https://live.staticflickr.com/8027/2...d84a43_c_d.jpg


and even the 1974 Raleigh Gran Prix was not spared the shame of the droopy skewer lever...
https://live.staticflickr.com/8456/2...4a71b5_c_d.jpg


Steve in Peoria


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