Bike Forums - Training program advice

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Training program advice

Hi Guys,

I just wanted a bit of program structure guidance if that’s ok

So i’m new to track but used to race BMX

I’ve lifted for years and back up to a 200lg back squat at 96kg body weight.

Not sure i will get back to my best numbers, but i’m 40 and and happy with that.

I want to get a bit lighter and fitter which i’m working on.

My main issue is fitting all the training in the right way.

With bmx the squats didn’t hurt the bike sessions as much as it’s high cadence 180-190 rpm and low gearings

im noticing pushing gears on sprint sessions the day after squats is hard and doing a double session with am squats and pm sprints which is my only option is also very hard.

So as a masters track sprinter how often are you squatting a week? Do you do separate days for the squat and sprint sessions?

what works in your experience as i’m getting burnt out a lot?

Thanks, just want to get it right 😊

Chris

Chris,

I won't give you advice because I'm not a leading light here. But I'd refer you to a post done by Taras (probably a couple of years ago) that detailed "Layered Track Training" that I thought was one of the most useful things I've read of the many, many useful things I've read on this forum from people like him, Carleton and many more. Taras seems to pop in regularly, and maybe if he sees this he can link you to that, or I can drop in the text that I saved from it.

TD

Chris, don't be discouraged by the lack of responses.

Training programs often come up here and are difficult comment on being that they are very personal and cover such a long period of time weekly programs for an entire year. An individual program may (should) change almost weekly based on the day of the week, the week within the block of weeks, the month within the year, and how close one is to minor and major events.

For example: It's March now. Folks in Atlanta are getting ready to start racing on this coming Tuesday as the season starts (DLV races a full 6 months). So, a typical DLV sprinter type will be lifting heavy (squatting) 3x/week during the winter and drop down to 2x/week when racing starts in April. The idea being that racing 1x/week is a great replacement for the dropped lifting day. Thus adding in needed functional strength training with the added bonus of aerobic work, bike handling at speed, pack racing skills, etc...

BUT...a guy like me (sprinter type) who didn't care much about early season racing, would continue to lift heavy 3x/week and only race maybe once every 2 weeks for the other benefits but not on-bik strength training.

Also, high-cadence work isn't really useful the further you are away from racing. Legspeed comes on quickly and dissipates quickly. Strength comes on slowly but dissipates slowly. So, it really depends on where you are in your annual program. Some only focus on legspeed a few weeks out from their big race of the year (Nationals, Worlds, whatever).

I think this is the post @TDinBristol was referring to

Quote:

Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 19638708)

There is a way to "layer" your training (i like using this term because the recovery periods of workouts overlap each other), but depending on ability, strengths/weaknesses, time of year/cycle; it sort of ends up being a "how long is a piece of string" type of situation.

The thing to remember, and not lose sight of, is "What am I trying to accomplish with this workout?" Always ask yourself this before you do anything, and it will save you a bunch of wasted effort, as well as time. The body will adapt to the largest strain put on it in a workout. If you have a "mixed" type of workout, you really end up shortchanging yourself. The body's energy systems do overlap, so you will end up training at least a little of each aspect of your physiology no matter what you do, but there should be a clear cut mission to what you are going to do each workout.

Before having a coach, I was probably the most masochistic junior out there. Years of hockey taught me to just go, go, go, go. Sprint after sprint, for minutes at a time. When I got into track, I was successful purely because I would outwork and outmuscle the kids I was racing against. To train for sprints, I would do sprints for up to 2 hours, one every 5-10 minutes. Kilo training was doing 4-5 Kilos ten minutes apart. Pursuits would be similar, except only 5 minutes apart. It taught me to dig deep and gave me a pretty good start, but it was a stupid way to train. If you noticed, all of those workouts were TIRING! That is the worst way to train, and after my coach had seen my logbook from the previous season, he educated me on neural fatigue, and showed me exactly where it had started to kick in based on my results/times. That kind of training worked initially because as a beginner, anything will work as long as it induces an overload.

To plan your training, you have to realize what is the easiest VS hardest to develop. Speed is the hardest to develop, followed by power, then strength, then endurance/aerobic is the easiest. This is the order you lose things in as well (Speed is the first to drop off, ...). This is also the heirarchy to follow when layering. Simply, you can layer speed over strength, but not strength over speed (or shouldn't, because it's a waste of time and energy). So, do speedwork when you are freshest and most rested the day before any other type of workout. The fatigue from each item on the scale will compromise anything above it. The fatigue from each item on the scale will not effect those below it, and may/will even contribute to increasing it's effect (speed and power are the only ones that are interrelated enough to effect each other negatively from fatigue, you need speed to generate power, and vice-versa).

It is also important to remember that each item on the scale NEEDS to be developed to effectively train the items above it. You build with aerobic, develop VO2, get stronger, get more powerful, then get faster. If you have a crappy aerobic engine, then your sprint workouts are going to be too taxing, and will suffer. You need a certain amount of fitness to get through your workout effectively enough to not only induce an overload, but to make sure that overload is greater than the previous one, AS WELL AS contributing to recovering for the next workout.

Does this mean that you should be doing everything on the scale? NO. The amounts, timing, and spacing are going to vary with individuals and goals.

https://www.bikeforums.net/19638708-post837.html. I've linked it because there is some good stuff in this thread, and things were discussed before and after that might answer some questions for you.

That's a great post! I remember reading that.

Quote:

The thing to remember, and not lose sight of, is "What am I trying to accomplish with this workout?" Always ask yourself this before you do anything, and it will save you a bunch of wasted effort, as well as time. The body will adapt to the largest strain put on it in a workout. If you have a "mixed" type of workout, you really end up shortchanging yourself. The body's energy systems do overlap, so you will end up training at least a little of each aspect of your physiology no matter what you do, but there should be a clear cut mission to what you are going to do each workout.

That mixed type of workout is the gym equivalent of "junk miles".

Also, to put the stuff Taras wrote in other terms: You don't train for Kilos by doing Kilos. You don't train for Flying 200s by doing Flying 200s. I've seen people do this and, as Taras put it, they were shortchanging themselves.

I like to use the Karate Kid analogy with training. For best results, train things in components. All of the components come together on race day. That's what Mr. Miyagi did for Daniel.

For example, the components of a Kilo would be broken down as such:

1: Standing start. Trained by the squat and deadlift and doing standing starts (or from a very slow roll)
2: Rolling acceleration to max speed. Trained with rolling accelerations off of the boards.
3: Max speed maintenance. Trained by following someone at max speed, preferably a motorbike. Also with rollers to dial in fit and position at top cadences.
4: Suffering. Trained on the mag, fluid or spin bike trainer at home.

Train some or all of these at different times in the year and at different times during a training week. Knowing which levers to pull and which buttons to push when is the art of programming.

[QUOTE=taras0000;20858071]I think this is the post @TDinBristol was referring to

That's the one! I've found that extremely useful in planning out workouts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 (Post 20851584)

Thanks a lot guys, I was starting to get known as the guy with the big squat, decent watt bike stats and not being able to convert it to the bike who constantly is fatigued! Got a lot to learn, but enjoying it all the same 👍

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 (Post 20860929)

Simple advice for this is less gym work (power and strength aren't your limiters), and more bike work/aerobic work. You need to build a base after so much time away. It will honestly be a season's worth of work before you should start even looking at doing dedicated speed work. For now, just focus on fitness, technique, and having fun, because those three things will get you to a place where you can really start focusing on what you want to do.