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-   -   Posting some info from another member re Coronovirus (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1195995)

SHBR 03-18-20 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by Happy Feet (Post 21372464)
Really? If you wear at a minimum, one mask / day that means 30/31 masks you have taken out of circulation for health care providers. Multiply that by the number of people in your country and it starts looking a little less selfless. Kind what the supply problem is all about.

If you really feel strongly about it wear a bandana and wash it every day - does the same thing and leaves the masks for front line health care providers.

I'm on the other side of the planet.

Masks are required here in shared spaces. (still on sale in the corner store)
So yes, its best if you have a lot of masks, I've used 5 or so in the past month if it makes YOU feel better. :wtf:

SHBR 03-18-20 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by indyfabz (Post 21372449)
Isn't that wherever my heart is?

Depends, it would seem there are some souls that don't have a heart or a home.

I'm thankful I have almost everything I need and most of what I want.

Cheers. :beer:

livedarklions 03-18-20 08:51 AM


Originally Posted by indyfabz (Post 21372421)
I am thinking of starting a thread asking whether disc brakes or rim brakes are better for combating the virus.


Most aero method of hauling 50 rolls of toilet paper.

indyfabz 03-18-20 08:56 AM


Originally Posted by SHBR (Post 21372484)
Depends, it would seem there are some souls that don't have a heart or a home.

"A heart. A brain. A home. Some nuy-ve. We're off to see the wizard. The wonderful Wizard of Ozzzzzzz!" :beer:

Road Fan 03-18-20 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by Litespud (Post 21372183)
Good no-nonsense information -

>>>> snipped<<<<

My cycling has been affected in that our club has cancelled all rides for the foreseeable, so I'm riding in small informal groups, and all of the coffee shops and restaurants in my state have been closed, so I have to plan my longer rides around the few grocery stores that also have coffee (any >40 mi ride without a coffee stop is a miserable affair!). My isopropanol sprayer goes in my jersey pocket in case I need to decon something - or I might just spritz my hands if I think I've touched something high-traffic or potentially contaminated. Short of one of my fellow riders hacking up in my face, I'm comfortable that the chances of someone infecting me while on a ride are negligible - that being said, if we're gasping up a steep climb, I'll try to be ahead of my fellow riders :)...just in case

These questions are for anyone in the thread or not who can provide some useful information on these points.

The last paragraph in the Thread Starter's original quote raises some interesting and IMO constructive questions. So far ethanol-based sanitizers have been recommended in the news media - at least at the outset they were plentiful in the retail markets. It does not stand to reason that only ethanol is effective (I had a chemistry class many decades ago, but I actually remembered something).
  1. You're using isopropanol (aka isopropyl alcohol), so I wonder if commercially packaged rubbing alcohol is ok? Does ingestion have to be prevented? I have seen some info (my local Nextdoor) that homemade antiseptics can be effective and can be "OK," using hydrogen peroxide among other things.
  2. There are an infinite number of possible chemicals that are technically alcohol. Is there any medical reason to prefer one alcohol or antiseptic type over another, beyond practicalities like speed of activation, percent effectiveness, cost, aesthetics, and availability?
  3. Would the minimum effective concentrations be the same as for commercial products?
Thanks a million for sharing your expertise!

Jicafold 03-18-20 09:20 AM


Originally Posted by Milton Keynes (Post 21372406)
The masks only help prevent spread of the disease when infected people wear them, so when they cough or sneeze they don't spray infected spit/snot droplets everywhere. They do not help a healthy person avoid the disease. If you're out in public wearing a mask and you touch an infected surface and then absentmindedly touch your face (such as to adjust your mask), the chances of you getting the virus are high.

This is what the OP and the UCLA physician, Dr. Otto Yang, has neglected to mention about masks. It's the sick who should be wearing them.

diverge52rider 03-18-20 09:26 AM


Originally Posted by Miele Man (Post 21372050)
All RELIABLE data to date still indicate that the virus is carried in respiratory droplets from infected persons who cough/sneeze and NOT aerosol. What this means is that the virus doesn't float through the air and you don't get infected by breathing the same air as an infected person.

I disagree even if the jury may still be out on this. It's doing more harm than good telling people there's NO CHANCE of aerosol transmission.

Michael Osterholm was on a recent podcast with Joe Rogan and also disagreed with this assessment -- the high rate of transmission across the world indicates there's a high possibility of this and also explains why people stuck in their cabins on cruise ships with recirculating air kept getting infected.

Keep in mind the common flu can also be spread by aerosol, so how is this any different? Google "aerosol coronavirus" and you'll find the recent U.S. study that showed mimicked virus droplets can remain in the air for several hours.

livedarklions 03-18-20 10:00 AM


Originally Posted by diverge52rider (Post 21372542)
I disagree even if the jury may still be out on this. It's doing more harm than good telling people there's NO CHANCE of aerosol transmission.

Michael Osterholm was on a recent podcast with Joe Rogan and also disagreed with this assessment -- the high rate of transmission across the world indicates there's a high possibility of this and also explains why people stuck in their cabins on cruise ships with recirculating air kept getting infected.

Keep in mind the common flu can also be spread by aerosol, so how is this any different? Google "aerosol coronavirus" and you'll find the recent U.S. study that showed mimicked virus droplets can remain in the air for several hours.


Both Osterholm and Yang agree that wearing masks in public probably isn't helpful, so I'm not sure where this matters too much to our individual decisions. I assume that close proximity will likely lead to some sort of incidental unintentional contact and should therefore be avoided. I think that's consistent with both.

Litespud 03-18-20 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 21372507)
These questions are for anyone in the thread or not who can provide some useful information on these points.

The last paragraph in the Thread Starter's original quote raises some interesting and IMO constructive questions. So far ethanol-based sanitizers have been recommended in the news media - at least at the outset they were plentiful in the retail markets. It does not stand to reason that only ethanol is effective (I had a chemistry class many decades ago, but I actually remembered something).
  1. You're using isopropanol (aka isopropyl alcohol), so I wonder if commercially packaged rubbing alcohol is ok? Does ingestion have to be prevented? I have seen some info (my local Nextdoor) that homemade antiseptics can be effective and can be "OK," using hydrogen peroxide among other things.
  2. There are an infinite number of possible chemicals that are technically alcohol. Is there any medical reason to prefer one alcohol or antiseptic type over another, beyond practicalities like speed of activation, percent effectiveness, cost, aesthetics, and availability?
  3. Would the minimum effective concentrations be the same as for commercial products?
Thanks a million for sharing your expertise!

isopropanol is a widely used disinfectant. I use regular store-bought rubbing alcohol, which is usually 70% isopropanol. It also comes in 91%, but 70% is the more effective disinfectant. I usually have a few bottles lying around, as itís good for cleaning/degreasing car- and bike parts. Good luck finding some in a store these days, but if you do, youíre good to go. I would avoid ingesting it - Iím sure itís not good for you, but it evaporates away pretty quickly so there shouldnít be any residue hanging around

indyfabz 03-18-20 10:37 AM

My personal office supply since I am basically the only one who comes to this office these days.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4f0aa98779.jpg

JanMM 03-18-20 10:46 AM

Information from CDC on how to protect yourself or others from covid-19. Including what to use for hand and surface cleaning and how to prepare cleaning/disinfectant solutions.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...revention.html

Litespud 03-18-20 10:53 AM


Originally Posted by diverge52rider (Post 21372542)
I disagree even if the jury may still be out on this. It's doing more harm than good telling people there's NO CHANCE of aerosol transmission.

Michael Osterholm was on a recent podcast with Joe Rogan and also disagreed with this assessment -- the high rate of transmission across the world indicates there's a high possibility of this and also explains why people stuck in their cabins on cruise ships with recirculating air kept getting infected.

Keep in mind the common flu can also be spread by aerosol, so how is this any different? Google "aerosol coronavirus" and you'll find the recent U.S. study that showed mimicked virus droplets can remain in the air for several hours.

Fair enough, but I don't think we know if those cruise ship passengers were infected while sequestered in their cabins - given that the incubation period is variable, and can be as long as two weeks, it's as likely that they were exposed and infected pre-sequestration, and only developed symptoms later. I confess that I'm not up on the fine details and timing of the various cruise ship episodes, so it's possible that my suppositions are incorrect

JohnDThompson 03-18-20 11:57 AM


Originally Posted by diverge52rider (Post 21372542)
I disagree even if the jury may still be out on this. It's doing more harm than good telling people there's NO CHANCE of aerosol transmission.

The chance of aerosol transmission is not zero, but it is very low. The simple surgical masks you see most people wearing do not protect against aerosol transmission. The N95 respirator masks can protect against aerosol transmission, but unless you have been professionally trained and fitted for an N95 mask, chances are it won't be any more effective than a simple surgical mask.

Daniel4 03-18-20 12:10 PM


Originally Posted by indyfabz (Post 21372639)
My personal office supply since I am basically the only one who comes to this office these days.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4f0aa98779.jpg

Only the wipes will be effective because the Coronavirus is not a bacteria.

And furthermore, 0.1% will survive meaning the survivors will be superbugs remaining on surfaces.

Best is to wash and rinse.

DeadGrandpa 03-18-20 12:19 PM


Originally Posted by indyfabz (Post 21372421)
I am thinking of starting a thread asking whether disc brakes or rim brakes are better for combating the virus.

I would subscribe to that thread.

indyfabz 03-18-20 12:25 PM


Originally Posted by Daniel4 (Post 21372742)
Only the wipes will be effective because the Coronavirus is not a bacteria.

And furthermore, 0.1% will survive meaning the survivors will be superbugs remaining on surfaces.

Best is to wash and rinse.

The sanitizer is 70% alcohol. Guess the CDC is misrepresenting that it may be helpful. Thanks.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...revention.html

Take steps to protect yourself


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...wash-hands.png
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...le_07_wash.png

Clean your hands often

  • Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds especially after you have been in a public place, or after blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing.
  • If soap and water are not readily available, use a hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol. Cover all surfaces of your hands and rub them together until they feel dry.
  • Avoid touching your eyes, nose, and mouth with unwashed hands.

Jicafold 03-18-20 12:31 PM


Originally Posted by Daniel4 (Post 21372742)
Only the wipes will be effective .


That's not true either.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...sanitizer.html

CDC recommendations reflect the important role of hand hygiene for preventing the transmission of pathogens in healthcare settings for a wide range of pathogens. The ability of hand hygiene, including hand washing or the use of alcohol-based hand sanitizers to prevent infections is related to reductions in the number of viable pathogens that transiently contaminate the hands. Hand washing mechanically removes pathogens, while laboratory data demonstrate that 60% ethanol and 70% isopropanol, the active ingredients in CDC-recommended alcohol-based hand sanitizers, inactivates viruses that are genetically related to, and with similar physical properties as, the 2019-nCoV.

While the exact role of direct and indirect spread of coronaviruses between people that could be reduced by hand hygiene is unknown at this time, hand hygiene for infection prevention is an important part of the U.S. response to the international emergence of COVID-19.

CDC recommends the use of alcohol-based hand sanitizers with greater than 60% ethanol or 70% isopropanol as the preferred form of hand hygiene in healthcare settings, based upon greater access to hand sanitizer. Health care providers who use alcohol-based hand sanitizers as part of their hand hygiene routine can inform patients that they are following CDC guidelines.

Litespud 03-18-20 01:10 PM


Originally Posted by Daniel4 (Post 21372742)
Only the wipes will be effective because the Coronavirus is not a bacteria.

And furthermore, 0.1% will survive meaning the survivors will be superbugs remaining on surfaces.

Best is to wash and rinse.

Like I said earlier - Conoraviruses are enveloped viruses. They have an outer lipid membrane which is essential for infectivity. Any disinfectant that kills bacteria (and they pretty much all do this by disrupting the bacterial cell membrane) will also render coronaviruses inactive.

Maelochs 03-18-20 02:00 PM

Seems to me that hand sanitizer is really only useful in places where soap and water are not available.

Some people seem to think ti is magic, and waste it when a simple trip to a nearby sink with soap would work just as well.

But ... people can be idiots, and even people who think they are very smart completely reject the information provided by other people who are really smart ....

This cracks me up. If a person who had never ridden a bicycle, never owned a bicycle, and had never even been to a bicycle shop came here and started telling us we didn't know about bikes, we'd all laugh.

Yet when people who have spent years learning about and studying viruses come here and tell us what they know ... suddenly some of us are expert virologists.

Go ahead ... Be That Guy. The rest of us are rolling on the floor .....

Kapusta 03-18-20 02:15 PM

A study just published in the New England Journal of Medicine finds that This Coronavirus DOES remain airborne and active in aerosol form for a period of time.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973

Jicafold 03-18-20 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by Maelochs (Post 21372917)
Yet when people who have spent years learning about and studying viruses come here and tell us what they know ... suddenly some of us are expert virologists.

Some of us might actually be an expert virologist, or a rocket scientist, or a brain surgeon, or an insurance adjuster if your bicycle shop burns down...we don't just all ride bikes.

livedarklions 03-18-20 02:43 PM


Originally Posted by Kapusta (Post 21372942)
A study just published in the New England Journal of Medicine finds that This Coronavirus DOES remain airborne and active in aerosol form for a period of time.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973


That's scary--the half-life figures on various surfaces are also really long.

All of this stuff is based on very quick and dirty study by necessity because we're trying to shoot at a moving target, so I tend to tune out anything that starts with "this is a settled question" at this point. There's certainly a world of difference between that and the OP.

Maelochs 03-18-20 02:44 PM

Well .... unless you have evidence (you know how those stupid scientists work---no data, no conclusion) then all you have is an hypothesis. Yeah, sure .... some of us might be whatever.

But the people who are arguing with actual experts .... and are not providing any data themselves ... and are saying "I think ... " or "I don't believe ...' unsupported by any data .... whatever. Pick a fight elsewhere if that is what you want, and believe whatever makes you happy.

When all the people who can demonstrate that they have studied virology, contagion, whatever for decades say something, and some random guy says, "Naw, I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night, so I know better .... " Choose whatever you like.

They will never take our freedom ... but they might have to bury some of us prematurely because we didn't use reason.

livedarklions 03-18-20 02:46 PM


Originally Posted by Jicafold (Post 21372943)
Some of us might actually be an expert virologist, or a rocket scientist, or a brain surgeon, or an insurance adjuster if your bicycle shop burns down...we don't just all ride bikes.


OK, I'll bite. Any actual virologists on this thread?

I'm certainly not one. Are you?

I am, however, a lawyer who has been damned amused by some of the crazy crap posted as "the law" by self-appointed experts on BF.

Maelochs 03-18-20 02:49 PM

EDIT: I went back and reread the study to make sure i got all of it and it turned out that I missed a crucial point----they renamed Covid-19 to SARS 2. My mistake.

Originally Posted by livedarklions (Post 21372999)
That's scary--the half-life figures on various surfaces are also really long.

All of this stuff is based on very quick and dirty study by necessity because we're trying to shoot at a moving target, so I tend to tune out anything that starts with "this is a settled question" at this point. There's certainly a world of difference between that and the OP.

yes, it is important to note that none of those studies actually used corona virus.

A couple of things i found:

John Nicholls, a pathology professor at the University of Hong Kong, explained the conditions under which the virus cannot survive. (https://www.accuweather.com/en/healt...-months/679415)

"Sunlight will cut the virus' ability to grow in half so the half-life will be 2.5 minutes and in the dark it's about 13 to 20 [minutes]," Nicholls said. "Sunlight is really good at killing viruses."

Regarding temperatures, Nicholls said the warmer the better for stopping the spread of the virus, according to the transcript of the conference call.```````

"The virus can remain intact at 4 degrees (39 degrees Fahrenheit) or 10 degrees (50 F) for a longer period of time," Nicholls said, referring to Celsius measurements, according to the transcript. "But at 30 degrees (86 degrees F) then you get inactivation. And high humidity -- the virus doesn't like it either," he added, the transcript of the call showed.


Also:

“The Journal of Hospital Infection study also found that spikes in temperature made a difference in the lifespans of coronaviruses. An 18-degree Fahrenheit jump, from 68 degrees to 86 degrees, decreased how long SARS lasted on steel surfaces by at least half.” (https://www.businessinsider.com/how-...sinfect-2020-3)

So, yes, and with the virus mutating, it is hard to know ... but it does seem that none of the people who only believe what they like, ever cite any studies beyond their own studies of their own opinions. I am sure the guy buying 100 rolls of toilet paper Might be a PhD with numerous Doctorates in disease transmission, etc ....Might be ,......


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