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-   -   Poll: Tiagra or 105 for gravel bike? (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1189814)

maartendc 12-09-19 09:12 AM

Poll: Tiagra or 105 for gravel bike?
 
Hello all,

I am looking at a Cannondale topstone AL, the 105 version is 1660 EUR on sale, the Tiagra version is 1330 EUR. Looking at it for touring, gravel riding on the weekend. I want to keep the cost down, more so that I can justify the purchase than anything else (because I dont really NEED the bike).

- Both have hydraulic disc brakes
- I believe the 105 has the "shadow" derailleur technology by Shimano, which eliminates chain slap.
- Tiagra is 2x10, while the 105 is 2x11. My other road bike is Sram Force 2x10, so actually having two bikes on 2x10 might be an advantage parts wise.
- The 105 might be a little lighter.

Is it worth the extra 330 EUR to go 105? Especially on a budget oriented bike? (not that I wont be riding it a lot).

Which would you get in my case? Thanks!

UsedToBeFaster 12-09-19 10:00 AM

Not sure if it's relevant to 10 speed tiagra
 
But I had 9-speed tiagra on a Touring bike and a gravel bike and it was amazing completely indestructible easy to get parts ATC. The benefit of 105 is slightly crisper changing not sure if I ever thought that was an advantage in the gravel routes I ride.

Rides4Beer 12-09-19 10:12 AM

I have r7000 105 on my gravel bike and it's been fantastic. The shadow design keeps the derailleur tucked in so it's less likely to get damaged in a crash (a clutched derailleur would help with chain slap, you'd have to go GRX or Ultegra to get that). I had a high speed crash on the gravel bike and there wasn't a scratch on the rear mech, so I would say it's a good design. Picked all my stuff up and rode another 20+ miles with a bloody leg, but the bike was fine.

Racing Dan 12-09-19 02:40 PM

I voted tiagra because it works well and is cheaper to maintain and The 105 does not have a clutch. For that you need GRX, that would be my preference anyway.

taco2ewsday 12-09-19 02:53 PM

I hear the lower groupsets are heavier but also more durable so if you are really going gravel riding the Tiagra may be better, if you are cheap (like me) the Tiagra might be better. If you think you'll upgrade the bike at some point, allegedly having 11 speed mech and shifters in place can be a benefit so I would say 105 there.

I would say look at the total package I know in some of the lower models like my Topstone Sora it has a square taper crank, this caught me off guard after I bought it. I'm pretty sure the 105 has either FSA Mega Exo or BB30 it's worth double checking on the Tiagra.

faulker479 12-09-19 03:08 PM

Which color frame do you like better? Go with that one

caloso 12-09-19 04:03 PM

I just built up a CX race bike for my kid using Tiagra: It's a great value: shifts as well as 105/Ultegra but just a bit heavier and not as nicely finished. But who cares on a gravel bike. And the 10-speed interchangeability was a bonus since my CX bike is also 10-speed (Red/Force/105 mix and match). 10-speed is still widely available but it isn't as desireable for the latest and greatest crowd, so there are some bargains to be had.

caloso 12-09-19 04:10 PM

I'd take that 330 euro savings and spend it on some nice tires, a couple of sets for different conditions.

Leinster 12-09-19 07:22 PM

Voted Tiagra. I’ve had mixed Tiagra/105 9 speed, Tiagra 10, 105 10, and ridden 105 11 on different bikes. They all worked perfectly, except I had 2 105 triple front derailleurs break on me before replacing with, obviously, Tiagra.

maartendc 12-10-19 01:46 AM

Thanks for all the votes so far!


Originally Posted by Rides4Beer (Post 21238924)
I have r7000 105 on my gravel bike and it's been fantastic. The shadow design keeps the derailleur tucked in so it's less likely to get damaged in a crash (a clutched derailleur would help with chain slap, you'd have to go GRX or Ultegra to get that). I had a high speed crash on the gravel bike and there wasn't a scratch on the rear mech, so I would say it's a good design. Picked all my stuff up and rode another 20+ miles with a bloody leg, but the bike was fine.

Oh, good point on the clutch. I thought 105 had the clutch functionality as well. Well that is one less reason to go for 105..


Originally Posted by Racing Dan (Post 21239350)
I voted tiagra because it works well and is cheaper to maintain and The 105 does not have a clutch. For that you need GRX, that would be my preference anyway.

Yes GRX is nice, but sadly not a lot of bikes come equipped with it yet. Probably because it is still fairly new.


Originally Posted by taco2ewsday (Post 21239366)
I hear the lower groupsets are heavier but also more durable so if you are really going gravel riding the Tiagra may be better, if you are cheap (like me) the Tiagra might be better. If you think you'll upgrade the bike at some point, allegedly having 11 speed mech and shifters in place can be a benefit so I would say 105 there.

I would say look at the total package I know in some of the lower models like my Topstone Sora it has a square taper crank, this caught me off guard after I bought it. I'm pretty sure the 105 has either FSA Mega Exo or BB30 it's worth double checking on the Tiagra.

Oh wow, that is a good point on the Sora Topstone. I had no idea it had a square taper crank! Thanks for letting me know! I was turned off on it because of mechanical vs hydraulic disc brakes, but that is another no go.


Originally Posted by caloso (Post 21239462)
I just built up a CX race bike for my kid using Tiagra: It's a great value: shifts as well as 105/Ultegra but just a bit heavier and not as nicely finished. But who cares on a gravel bike. And the 10-speed interchangeability was a bonus since my CX bike is also 10-speed (Red/Force/105 mix and match). 10-speed is still widely available but it isn't as desireable for the latest and greatest crowd, so there are some bargains to be had.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah Tiagra seems great value, and the 10-speed interchangeability is a plus for me as well. Although 10 speed things are starting to become harder to find. 105 5700 groupset parts are on their way out I think..

faulker479 12-12-19 04:41 PM

5700 and 6700 do not have the same pull ratios for their shifters and derailleurs. However, there is GRX 10 speed that is brand new and is compatible with the Tiagra.

Again, go with the color frame you like best of the two. They only do one color for each group level. Once you wear out the drive train you can get the next latest and greatest.

mstateglfr 12-12-19 06:10 PM


Originally Posted by maartendc (Post 21239940)
Thanks for all the votes so far!



Oh, good point on the clutch. I thought 105 had the clutch functionality as well. Well that is one less reason to go for 105..



Yes GRX is nice, but sadly not a lot of bikes come equipped with it yet. Probably because it is still fairly new.



Oh wow, that is a good point on the Sora Topstone. I had no idea it had a square taper crank! Thanks for letting me know! I was turned off on it because of mechanical vs hydraulic disc brakes, but that is another no go.



Thanks for the feedback. Yeah Tiagra seems great value, and the 10-speed interchangeability is a plus for me as well. Although 10 speed things are starting to become harder to find. 105 5700 groupset parts are on their way out I think..

current Tiagra is on an island. It isnt compatible with other 10sp components.

HTupolev 12-12-19 07:51 PM


Originally Posted by mstateglfr (Post 21243307)
current Tiagra is on an island. It isnt compatible with other 10sp components.

Yep. 4700 is basically a Shimano 10-speed cassette and a Shimano 11-speed rear derailleur, paired to a unique shifter that makes that combination work.

maartendc 12-13-19 02:23 AM


Originally Posted by HTupolev (Post 21243413)
Yep. 4700 is basically a Shimano 10-speed cassette and a Shimano 11-speed rear derailleur, paired to a unique shifter that makes that combination work.


Originally Posted by faulker479 (Post 21243200)
5700 and 6700 do not have the same pull ratios for their shifters and derailleurs. However, there is GRX 10 speed that is brand new and is compatible with the Tiagra.

Again, go with the color frame you like best of the two. They only do one color for each group level. Once you wear out the drive train you can get the next latest and greatest.


Originally Posted by mstateglfr (Post 21243307)
current Tiagra is on an island. It isnt compatible with other 10sp components.

Oh wait, really? That is so dumb!

So that means the Tiagra 4700 shifters and derailleurs have 11-speed type cable pull, and the 10 speed Tiagra cassette has the same sprocket spacing as an 11-speed cassette? Why the hell would they do that?! Perhaps so they can manufacture the Tiagra cassettes with the same parts as their 105 cassettes, just one extra sprocket? Probably saves them manufacturing cost? Weird.

Thanks for the heads up, I had no idea. I will go 105 for sure in that case.

HTupolev 12-13-19 02:33 AM


Originally Posted by maartendc (Post 21243672)
So that means the Tiagra 4700 shifters and derailleurs have 11-speed type cable pull, and the 10 speed Tiagra cassette has the same sprocket spacing as an 11-speed cassette?

No. The 4700 Tiagra cassette is the same as previous Shimano 10-speed cassettes. The 4700 Tiagra rear derailleur is basically the same as Shimano 11-speed rear derailleurs. The 4700 shifter has cable pull unique to 4700 (and apparently GRX400), in order to make the combination of 10-speed cassette and "11-speed rear derailleur" work.

You could stick a 10-speed 5700-series cassette into a 4700 drivetrain, and it would work fine. You could also stick an 11-speed R7000-series rear derailleur into a 4700 drivetrain, and it would work fine. (You could stick a 4700-series rear derailleur into an 11-speed R9100 Dura-Ace drivetrain, and it would work fine. But people would give you funny looks.)

maartendc 12-13-19 07:21 AM


Originally Posted by HTupolev (Post 21243674)
No. The 4700 Tiagra cassette is the same as previous Shimano 10-speed cassettes. The 4700 Tiagra rear derailleur is basically the same as Shimano 11-speed rear derailleurs. The 4700 shifter has cable pull unique to 4700 (and apparently GRX400), in order to make the combination of 10-speed cassette and "11-speed rear derailleur" work.

You could stick a 10-speed 5700-series cassette into a 4700 drivetrain, and it would work fine. You could also stick an 11-speed R7000-series rear derailleur into a 4700 drivetrain, and it would work fine. (You could stick a 4700-series rear derailleur into an 11-speed R9100 Dura-Ace drivetrain, and it would work fine. But people would give you funny looks.)

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Weird.

So you could technically put an 11-speed cassette and 11 speed rear shifter on the bike with the Tiagra derailleur and have a full 11-speed drivetrain (excluding chain)?

Interesting.

caloso 12-13-19 10:57 AM

I think so. I had to replace the Tiagra RD on my kid's road bike. I was going to throw an old Ultegra 10-speed RD on there that I had in a bin, but learned that bit about cable pull. So instead I got a 11-speed 105 and it works perfectly.

Darth Lefty 12-13-19 11:32 AM

Shimano is being willfully cruel keeping Deore and Tiagra at 10 speed, just an obsolete gear step between their cheap old SIS and new premium lines.

faulker479 12-13-19 01:54 PM

The spacing on Tiagra 10 speed cassette is still the same as the 5700. It is different from an 11 speed cassette.

Fox Farm 12-15-19 02:31 AM

Rather than the court of public opinion, talk with a reputable bike shop who deal with service and have their hands on more bikes.

rivers 12-15-19 03:03 AM

I've got tiagra on my cx/gravel/winter bike and 105 on my summer. With the exception of an extra cog on the back, there is barely any discernible difference. Both shift really well, and my tiagra equipped bike has the benefit of hydraulic brakes. Yes there is a bit of extra weight compared to 105, but my winter bike is aluminium and heavier than my summer bike anyway, so who really cares. I thrash the hell out of my winter bike anyway, and parts are cheaper to replace. Go tiagra is my opinion.

rubiksoval 12-15-19 07:37 AM


Originally Posted by UsedToBeFaster (Post 21238909)
But I had 9-speed tiagra on a Touring bike and a gravel bike and it was amazing completely indestructible easy to get parts ATC.

Uh. Huh?

BengalCat 12-15-19 03:58 PM

Shimano 105 is IMO far and away the best system for the dollar and also the drivetrain that produces the best performance improvement from lesser Shimano groups like Sora or Tiagra, etc. Even the best riders have a hard time distinguishing between a 105, Ultegra or Dura-Ace when it comes to shifting performance.


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