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-   -   Giving up Ti and going back to carbon (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1178274)

MyTi 07-14-19 11:05 AM

Giving up Ti and going back to carbon
 
I really like my Litespeed titanium road bike but to properly convert it to disc brakes it would cost a fortune. Basically $1100 to get the disc tabs welded in the rear, remove the original brake studs, and a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff. Then it would cost me probably around $300 for shipping, and probably another $600 for an Enve carbon road bike disc brake fork. Then on top of that I'd still need to change my group to a disc brake group...and to keep things budget I'd probably settle on a 105 disc brake group which is another $600.


So total cost to convert an old Litespeed Ti road bike to disc...$2600...lol and who knows how good those welds are gonna be. I'm sure it'll be fine but who knows a lot can go wrong I guess.


I can easily get a carbon bike with a full Ultegra disc groupset, thru axles, all the bells and whistles, etc. easily for less than the cost of that modification/upgrade.


Unfortunately a new disc brake ti bike equivalent to my current Litespeed is going to cost around $6k with a good group. Just can't justify spending over $3k and up on a bike however.


So as much as I love Ti I am back to carbon.

noodle soup 07-14-19 11:10 AM

or get something like this

Save Up To 60% Off Disc Brake, FREE SHIP* TO THE 48 US Hydraulic Disc Brake, Advanced Titanium Road Bikes NEW Motobecane Le Champion TI DISC PRO Shimano R8000 Ultegra 22 Speed+ Hydraulic Disc Brakes

masi61 07-14-19 11:30 AM

Is converting a rim brake classic Litespeed road bike to disc even possible? Maybe somebody that does a lot of custom ti work might take on the task of retrofitting a flat disc caliper mount on the rear non-driveside chainstay but then there is the issue of rear dropout spacing from QR 130 to QR 135mm. Not ideal at all.

So how does the bike ride right now? Is the rim braking lacking in some way? Can you optimize it in some way?

If you really want disc and titanium I 2nd what the previous poster put up about the Bikes Direct ďMotobecaneĒ model. There was a thread about that bike last week & it sounds like a great value @ ~$2,000.

Having a titanium hydraulic disc sloping top tube tapered fork through axle properly designed road bike frame to me is a great investment. Paying the upcharge for something really special is probably worth it. I imagine if you keep looking, youíll find some more affordable options out there.

But rebuilding a classic ti road bike into a configuration it was not originally designed for, would account to future disappointment. For one, your tire size options would be terribly limited. This nullifies one of the coolest things about disc road frames, the flexibility to use disc only rims with whatever tires your heart desires.

Better to start with a proper, modern disc platform...

noodle soup 07-14-19 12:02 PM


Originally Posted by MyTi (Post 20984089)
Even if you race unless you are a paid to race, sponsored professional, it makes zero sense to spend thousands on a bike.

when did you turn pro, and get sponsored?

:innocent:

growlerdinky 07-14-19 12:20 PM

What's wrong with the "full rim brakes" on your Vortex?

Marcus_Ti 07-14-19 12:23 PM


Originally Posted by MyTi (Post 21026230)
I really like my Litespeed titanium road bike but to properly convert it to disc brakes it would cost a fortune. Basically $1100 to get the disc tabs welded in the rear, remove the original brake studs, and a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff. Then it would cost me probably around $300 for shipping, and probably another $600 for an Enve carbon road bike disc brake fork. Then on top of that I'd still need to change my group to a disc brake group...and to keep things budget I'd probably settle on a 105 disc brake group which is another $600.


So total cost to convert an old Litespeed Ti road bike to disc...$2600...lol and who knows how good those welds are gonna be. I'm sure it'll be fine but who knows a lot can go wrong I guess.


I can easily get a carbon bike with a full Ultegra disc groupset, thru axles, all the bells and whistles, etc. easily for less than the cost of that modification/upgrade.


Unfortunately a new disc brake ti bike equivalent to my current Litespeed is going to cost around $6k with a good group. Just can't justify spending over $3k and up on a bike however.


So as much as I love Ti I am back to carbon.

No you would not need to change groups. You need to do more research if you think so. The calipers are called TRP HyRd BTW.

Nice bikes are expensive to build today. Is this shocking news? Buy a carbon frame and build it up with Ultegra--it will cost a similar $4-$5K easily. Buy it pre-built and it will still easily cost $3K+....unless you're shopping used or wicked sales.

datlas 07-14-19 12:28 PM

You may have to change your screen name too.

Sad!

Pirkaus 07-14-19 12:38 PM

Lynskey , has complete bikes in your price range.

datlas 07-14-19 12:42 PM

Of course the real question is do you really “need” to convert to disc brakes.

If you you want to, it’s your choice how you do it but rim brakes are plenty viable on a road bike.

(ducks)

Chi_Z 07-14-19 12:43 PM


Originally Posted by Pirkaus (Post 21026375)
Lynskey , has complete bikes in your price range.

at their weights, you might as well go steel

eja_ bottecchia 07-14-19 12:48 PM

I once owned a Litespeed Classic. It was a very nice bike; I sold it because it didn’t fit me quite right (I bought it used).

I wouldn’t get rid of a nice Ti bike just to get disc brakes. Lots of alternative rim brakes, such as the TRP mentioned by others.

seau grateau 07-14-19 12:56 PM

But we were all so invested in you riding titanium bikes.

jadocs 07-14-19 02:57 PM

Why donít you just sell it and pick up a disc version on sale from Litespeed, Lynski, or Moto?

Iím the opposite I will not go back to carbon. My carbon bike is now my secondary bad weather bike.

MyTi 07-14-19 03:59 PM


Originally Posted by masi61 (Post 21026273)
Is converting a rim brake classic Litespeed road bike to disc even possible? Maybe somebody that does a lot of custom ti work might take on the task of retrofitting a flat disc caliper mount on the rear non-driveside chainstay but then there is the issue of rear dropout spacing from QR 130 to QR 135mm. Not ideal at all.

So how does the bike ride right now? Is the rim braking lacking in some way? Can you optimize it in some way?

If you really want disc and titanium I 2nd what the previous poster put up about the Bikes Direct “Motobecane” model. There was a thread about that bike last week & it sounds like a great value @ ~$2,000.

Having a titanium hydraulic disc sloping top tube tapered fork through axle properly designed road bike frame to me is a great investment. Paying the upcharge for something really special is probably worth it. I imagine if you keep looking, you’ll find some more affordable options out there.



Yes it’s possible, I got the quote to do it, it’s like $1100 for a full retrofit including rear dropout spacing to 135mm..This is from a reputable place that most people recommend. The litespeed vortex rides great…it’s as optimized as it can be as far as braking...good pads, toe in, etc. Disc brakes would perform better since I ride in the fog a lot.

As for the Moto I’m sure that’s fine for most, but I’ve tested that frame actually. Any real power on that bike and there is some ridiculous flex near the BB area. I literally felt like I was yoyoing when pedaling on that thing. You can’t really compare a 6-4 Ti litespeed vortex with oversized diamond shaped tubing and bladed rear triangle to some run of the mill motobecane ti frame. I’d say newer litespeed and Lynskey 6-4 ti frames are good but most run over $3k.


Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti (Post 21026350)
No you would not need to change groups. You need to do more research if you think so. The calipers are called TRP HyRd BTW.

Nice bikes are expensive to build today. Is this shocking news? Buy a carbon frame and build it up with Ultegra--it will cost a similar $4-$5K easily. Buy it pre-built and it will still easily cost $3K+....unless you're shopping used or wicked sales.



Not shocking I was hoping to get away with not spending more than $500 for the modification. I was reading some threads on how some guys got a guy who knows a guy ti do it for $300.


Originally Posted by Pirkaus (Post 21026375)
Lynskey, has complete bikes in your price range.



Ya they still run over a thousand more than a carbon offering. I want to stay in the $2k range with ultegra disc group and can’t do that with Lynskey or litespeed. I think the extra grand might be worth it but can’t justify spending more than 3k. Seeing a couple of shattered carbon frames in the TDF this year sure gives me pause though about going carbon. Carbon is inferior to Ti without a doubt.


Originally Posted by growlerdinky (Post 21026346)
What's wrong with the "full rim brakes" on your Vortex?

Nothing. Full Rim brakes simply don't perform as well as full disc brakes with all the fog / moisture in SF / Norcal.


Originally Posted by jadocs (Post 21026592)
Why don’t you just sell it and pick up a disc version on sale from Litespeed, Lynski, or Moto?

I’m the opposite I will not go back to carbon. My carbon bike is now my secondary bad weather bike.

Considering it actually. Lynskey's prices are not too bad. After tax though probably looking at $3500 after taxes with 105 for a complete bike where as a carbon with better specs...full Ultegra will be $2k.

jadocs 07-14-19 04:21 PM

I think you can do better than that. This way you have a bike that is designed from the ground up for disc and you are not jerry rigging it.

masi61 07-14-19 05:06 PM

[QUOTE=MyTi;21026685]

Yes itís possible, I got the quote to do it, itís like $1100 for a full retrofit including rear dropout spacing to 135mm..This is from a reputable place that most people recommend. The litespeed vortex rides greatÖitís as optimized as it can be as far as braking...good pads, toe in, etc. Disc brakes would perform better since I ride in the fog a lot.

As for the Moto Iím sure thatís fine for most, but Iíve tested that frame actually. Any real power on that bike and there is some ridiculous flex near the BB area. I literally felt like I was yoyoing when pedaling on that thing. You canít really compare a 6-4 Ti litespeed vortex with oversized diamond shaped tubing and bladed rear triangle to some run of the mill motobecane ti frame. Iíd say newer litespeed and Lynskey 6-4 ti frames are good but most run over $3k.



That's a big expense to hot rod your Litespeed Vortex. The stiffer diamond shaped tubing and bladed rear triangle do sound nice. I'm building a Wittson Illuminati titanium disc bike. This Lithuanian builder is less known in the US but you might check him out.

I have procrastinated completing this build but apparently it is time. I have ridden about 1400 miles this year on my titanium bike, a Veritas with rim brakes and Dura Ace 7800 components. The ride is amazing compared with my old friend, my aluminum Flyte SRS-3 (which I have ridded over 10x as many miles on). The innate shock absorption of the titanium, combined with the oversized tubing of my Veritas (Ohio made) frame, added to my 28 x 28 hole Dura Ace 7700/Mavic Open Pro 2 cross wheels with lightweight DT Swiss butted spokes (not the standard butted ones) along with Vittoria latex inner tubes run at medium pressures (85 front, 89 psi rear) provide stiffness but with a non-jarring ride that I accidentally discovered. The bike I bought used and paid $675 for it. It is fantastic. The 7800 dual pivot calipers can handle rain and fog quite well.

seypat 07-14-19 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 21026382)
Of course the real question is do you really ďneedĒ to convert to disc brakes.

If you you want to, itís your choice how you do it but rim brakes are plenty viable on a road bike.

(ducks)

+1. What is real reason for the sudden need for disc brakes?

SCTinkering 07-14-19 07:38 PM

I just swapped my fork to one that has a disc caliper mount and a disc front wheel. That's where you need the best braking power anyway. it would be nice to have it on the rear too, but not $1100 nice. The rest of my frame is in great shape so no reason to upgrade more than required.

znomit 07-14-19 10:41 PM

I vote for getting a disc front fork and keeping the frame standard. The fredlyness of mixed brakes is well deserved, and you can rage on both sides of the disc vs rim threads at your leisure.

indyfabz 07-15-19 04:30 AM

It's only a LiteSpeed. No real loss.

(geese)

downhillmaster 07-15-19 05:33 AM

Arenít most or all disc brakes made in China?

joesch 07-15-19 06:15 AM

Just N+1 and keep your LiteSpeed as is.
You may then realize its still a pretty nice ride.
For the upgrade costs you could get a very nice N+1 especially if your willing to get a NOS or used model.

Gconan 07-15-19 06:29 AM

I would buy a disc frame from Lynskey and transfer parts. Shoot, I forgot you would need wheels and brakes too. Added costs, my bad.

datlas 07-15-19 06:49 AM

I would also suggest that if, for some reason, you are dead-set on disc brakes and want to stick with Ti, you should mosey on over to bikedirect.com, I believe they have options that are priced quite reasonably.

(ducks again)

noodle soup 07-15-19 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by MyTi (Post 21026685)
Ya they still run over a thousand more than a carbon offering. I want to stay in the $2k range with ultegra disc group and canít do that with Lynskey or litespeed. I think the extra grand might be worth it but canít justify spending more than 3k. Seeing a couple of shattered carbon frames in the TDF this year sure gives me pause though about going carbon. Carbon is inferior to Ti without a doubt.


Try riding your Ti bike into some road furniture, and tell us what happens.

https://live.staticflickr.com/1855/4...4c42ac31_c.jpg


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