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-   -   My N.C. club is resuming group rides (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1202161)

CoogansBluff 05-21-20 08:42 AM

My N.C. club is resuming group rides
 
I was surprised to get the announcement this morning that the main club that I ride with is resuming group rides as early as this weekend.

I realize group rides are occurring in some parts of the country. Locally, I don't know what has changed since the original decision to shut group rides down. I understand opening up certain businesses with guidelines on how to make that safe. Seems that group rides are not only less essential, but more difficult to keep safe.

Curious what folks think about resuming group rides.

merlinextraligh 05-21-20 10:02 AM

I’m not going to be doing group rides anytime soon. In the draft you are literally in the aerosolized slipstream of the heavy breathing rider in front of you. Doing this for a two hour ride has the potential to expose you to a heavy viral load.

Conversely, riding by yourself, even with other cyclists and pedestrians around you, you may be exposed very briefly to micro droplets. But you’re moving past them quickly, and the odds of getting a viral load sufficient to cause infection are remote.

This fluid analysis indicates that if you’re following a bicycle at speed you may need to be 20 meters behind.

https://science4performance.com/tag/covid-19

I think that’s likely too extreme, but the point is the needed distance to be safe, eliminates any drafting effect, and would make a group ride of any size unmanageably long.

popeye 05-21-20 10:32 AM

The moral of the story is if they are not family don't draft.

caloso 05-21-20 10:49 AM

I'm on the board of my team and we just had this discussion. We put out a statement that we are following USAC and local health guidelines and will not be participating in group rides until it is safe to do so.

Edit: We are in Sacramento, CA.

datlas 05-21-20 12:29 PM

My advice is to hold off on group rides for now.

I understand that people want to resume group rides, but the idea of "social distancing" on a group ride is foolish. Studies suggest you would need to maintain a 60 (not 6) foot gap between riders due to airflow and possible spread of respiratory droplets. Doing a group ride like that I suppose is possible but difficult to maintain based on riders of slightly different strengths.

That said, I know several of my club-mates are doing "unofficial" group rides without social distancing, I strongly disagree with that but it's a free country. Sorta.

caloso 05-21-20 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 21488795)
My advice is to hold off on group rides for now.

I understand that people want to resume group rides, but the idea of "social distancing" on a group ride is foolish. Studies suggest you would need to maintain a 60 (not 6) foot gap between riders due to airflow and possible spread of respiratory droplets. Doing a group ride like that I suppose is possible but difficult to maintain based on riders of slightly different strengths.

That said, I know several of my club-mates are doing "unofficial" group rides without social distancing, I strongly disagree with that but it's a free country. Sorta.

Maybe this is a matter of semantics, but I would not consider riding 60' behind someone as being a group ride at all. To me that would be going out on a solo ride on a road that others just happen to be riding also.

CoogansBluff 05-21-20 12:55 PM


Originally Posted by caloso (Post 21488801)
Maybe this is a matter of semantics, but I would not consider riding 60' behind someone as being a group ride at all. To me that would be going out on a solo ride on a road that others just happen to be riding also.

I wonder what our friendly motorists would think of a train of 10 riders, each spaced 60 feet apart, stretching two football fields.

datlas 05-21-20 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by caloso (Post 21488801)
Maybe this is a matter of semantics, but I would not consider riding 60' behind someone as being a group ride at all. To me that would be going out on a solo ride on a road that others just happen to be riding also.


Originally Posted by CoogansBluff (Post 21488839)
I wonder what our friendly motorists would think of a train of 10 riders, each spaced 60 feet apart, stretching two football fields.

I agree that this is not an ideal solution. No solution is perfect. That said....

Another potential solution is to send people out in groups of 2 or 3, like a TTT. That could be a compromise. It's a tough balance.

Personally, I am trying to set a good example and have done ONLY solo rides for the past 2 months. But I see plenty of group riders out there. You gotta do what feels right to you.

That said, I stand by my posting above that it's too soon to have organized group/club rides. That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Seattle Forrest 05-21-20 01:30 PM

I don't think group rides are smart right now. Solo rides can be very rewarding, especially if you ride on roads you're not familiar with.

The stuff we've all been told about needing to stay 60 feet away from other cyclists was done without the help of virologists or doctors. It caught our attention because the graphics were cool. People smarter than me consider it nonsense. I'm not saying the virus is a hoax or anything like that, I'm saying 60 feet isn't the correct number. I'm sure it varies by a lot of things including wind.

With that out of the way, drafting is obviously a bad idea.

How bad you get this seems to have some correlation to how much virus got into you initially. Young people are coming away with permenant lung damage that will prevent spirited riding ever for the rest of their life. That's not a risk worth taking.

RJM 05-21-20 01:33 PM

Cycling is a great activity to perform solo during the pandemic, but riding right behind one or several riders is foolish right now, IMHO. I would put it on the same level as hanging out in a packed gym for an hour. I know many Americans think the disease is a hoax, not a big deal, or over but that just isn’t the case.

noisebeam 05-21-20 02:23 PM

Starting up officially in AZ too. But not for me.

Initially in March with no group rides I struggled with motivation for longer solo rides even though for two decades have commuted 22mi total daily every workday so have a lot of solo experience.

But after a few longer solo rides I started to like them better as they are more efficient time wise with no long stops and no periods where I want/need higher output and more concentration on my effort vs. group riding dynamics. And some of those certain people are not there to annoy me with their odd riding styles. I also like being able to change my route on the fly.

Of course I miss the socialization, competitive aspect and some elements of group dynamics. It can be hard to push oneself solo for a flat sprint, but I still work the hills hard. At least with social media ride posting apps I can try for best time for the day or year for some motivating competition as many of my cycling friends ride similar parts of routes.

2seven0 05-21-20 03:05 PM

News flash: "Until it's safe" means NEVER!! I guess FDR was just a blithering fool to have opined that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself. Shake the fairy dust from your skirts and go out and live your life for crying out loud!
Land of the free and home of the brave????
I weep for the future of my country.
West

Seattle Forrest 05-21-20 03:23 PM


Originally Posted by RJM (Post 21488911)
Cycling is a great activity to perform solo during the pandemic, but riding right behind one or several riders is foolish right now, IMHO. I would put it on the same level as hanging out in a packed gym for an hour. I know many Americans think the disease is a hoax, not a big deal, or over but that just isn’t the case.

​​​​​​I miss going to the gym. I'm missing out on an important part of fitness. Also you'd see the same people over and over again, eventually become friends with some of them. But indoors with people breathing hard for an hour, and everybody touching the same weights ... no thanks.

Seattle Forrest 05-21-20 03:24 PM


Originally Posted by 2seven0 (Post 21489072)
News flash: "Until it's safe" means NEVER!! I guess FDR was just a blithering fool to have opined that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself. Shake the fairy dust from your skirts and go out and live your life for crying out loud!
Land of the free and home of the brave????
I weep for the future of my country.

West

​​​​​​That's how I feel when I see people wearing helmets. Or seatbelts in a car.

WhyFi 05-21-20 03:38 PM


Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest (Post 21489101)
​​​​​​That's how I feel when I see people wearing helmets. Or seatbelts in a car.

Or running with scissors, points down.

RJM 05-21-20 04:19 PM


Originally Posted by 2seven0 (Post 21489072)
News flash: "Until it's safe" means NEVER!! I guess FDR was just a blithering fool to have opined that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself. Shake the fairy dust from your skirts and go out and live your life for crying out loud!
Land of the free and home of the brave????
I weep for the future of my country.
West

:cry:

nobody is stopping you from getting Covid.

HTupolev 05-21-20 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by 2seven0 (Post 21489072)
I guess FDR was just a blithering fool to have opined that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself.

You realize that quote was part of a rallying cry for Americans to trust government efforts to mitigate a crisis, right?

WhyFi 05-21-20 05:14 PM


Originally Posted by 2seven0 (Post 21489072)
News flash: "Until it's safe" means NEVER!! I guess FDR was just a blithering fool to have opined that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself. Shake the fairy dust from your skirts and go out and live your life for crying out loud!
Land of the free and home of the brave????
I weep for the future of my country.
West

FDR had polio, founded the March of Dimes and focused a ton of effort on furthering the study communicable diseases. So yeah, kudos on the great example.

popeye 05-21-20 05:18 PM


Originally Posted by 2seven0 (Post 21489072)
News flash: "Until it's safe" means NEVER!! I guess FDR was just a blithering fool to have opined that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself. Shake the fairy dust from your skirts and go out and live your life for crying out loud!
Land of the free and home of the brave????
I weep for the future of my country.
West

In April 2020, a set of screenshots supposedly showing comments from a “John McDaniels,” in which he called COVID-19 a “political ploy” and social-distancing measures “bull****,” started to circulate on social media. Along with the posts were articles claiming he died from complications of the coronavirus disease.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/co...ie-from-covid/

Seattle Forrest 05-21-20 06:17 PM

Man, that comment didn't go well.

yarbrough462 05-21-20 06:49 PM


Originally Posted by CoogansBluff (Post 21488344)
I was surprised to get the announcement this morning that the main club that I ride with is resuming group rides as early as this weekend.

I realize group rides are occurring in some parts of the country. Locally, I don't know what has changed since the original decision to shut group rides down. I understand opening up certain businesses with guidelines on how to make that safe. Seems that group rides are not only less essential, but more difficult to keep safe.

Curious what folks think about resuming group rides.

Meh...Folks can decide to do whatever they want. My wife and I make the decisions in our family and will allow us to reintegrate as we see fit based on actual data from credible sources. Critical thinking is the key. I don't think getting that close to anyone outside my family unit is prudent at this time. There are too many unknowns...I will say that we are in a privileged position and can afford to stay home. There are others that can't so I can understand their need to reintegrate faster than our family. I still can't see how anyone could ever see a group ride as being essential or safe. Athletes take in and expel a ton of air. Seems like a recipe for disaster if anyone happened to be infected.

DaveLeeNC 05-21-20 07:11 PM

A group ride is kind of like being 6' (or whatever your spacing is) from a rider where both are still, but are probably breathing heavily, and you are downwind in a 20-some mph wind. There are a lot of warning signals in that scenario. They are partially mitigated by being outdoors, if it is a big group your exposure is 'spread out' across a bunch of folks rather than one possibly infected person, and there is probably a lot of dispersion going on.

I doubt that anyone has done the analysis to properly assess this risk with a decent degree of confidence. The stuff that I have seen was not convincing to me. So my choice given those unknowns is to pass on that scenario and I am riding solo. It is helpful that this is my norm anyway. But it is going to force me to pass up a couple of century rides this summer that I was looking forward to.

dave

2seven0 05-21-20 08:21 PM

Pithy insults notwithstanding, I'd like for anyone to refute my position with facts and common sense:
Is the Wuhan Virus (COVID-19) a hoax? No!!
Is it extremely dangerous if not deadly to a very small, very select segment of the population? Absolutely!
Should those people most vulnerable take whatever precautions they deem necessary for their safety? You betcha!
As for 99.99+% of the population to which the virus presents little to no risk whatsoever is the reaction far worse than the virus itself? Absolutely! Bankrupting thousands of businesses, leaving millions unemployed and plunging tens of millions of people worldwide into poverty will prove to be the greatest mistake modern man has made.
There is no reason healthy people with stout immune systems (as I suspect most on this forum are) should drastically alter their lifestyles. You're far more likely to be killed or injured riding your bike, driving a car, drowning etc. than dying from this virus. We all do things that aren't "safe" on a daily basis because we take steps to mitigate the risk.
Is this the first virus to infect mankind? No. Have there been deadlier viruses that a greater percentage of the population were at risk of getting? Yes. Did we react as we are now? No. Why not?
Have any of you contracted a communicable disease in your lifetime? I have! Guess what- I got sick then recovered! but I certainly didn't tiptoe around in fear wearing a mask everywhere! Or demand it of everyone else!
And society wasn't subjected to unconstitutional "lockdowns" by petty narcissistic fools either.

Please tell me where I'm wrong.
West

badger1 05-21-20 09:02 PM


Originally Posted by 2seven0 (Post 21489650)
Pithy insults notwithstanding, I'd like for anyone to refute my position with facts and common sense:
Is the Wuhan Virus (COVID-19) a hoax? No!!
Is it extremely dangerous if not deadly to a very small, very select segment of the population? Absolutely!
Should those people most vulnerable take whatever precautions they deem necessary for their safety? You betcha!
As for 99.99+% of the population to which the virus presents little to no risk whatsoever is the reaction far worse than the virus itself? Absolutely! Bankrupting thousands of businesses, leaving millions unemployed and plunging tens of millions of people worldwide into poverty will prove to be the greatest mistake modern man has made.
There is no reason healthy people with stout immune systems (as I suspect most on this forum are) should drastically alter their lifestyles. You're far more likely to be killed or injured riding your bike, driving a car, drowning etc. than dying from this virus. We all do things that aren't "safe" on a daily basis because we take steps to mitigate the risk.
Is this the first virus to infect mankind? No. Have there been deadlier viruses that a greater percentage of the population were at risk of getting? Yes. Did we react as we are now? No. Why not?
Have any of you contracted a communicable disease in your lifetime? I have! Guess what- I got sick then recovered! but I certainly didn't tiptoe around in fear wearing a mask everywhere! Or demand it of everyone else!
And society wasn't subjected to unconstitutional "lockdowns" by petty narcissistic fools either.

Please tell me where I'm wrong.
West

You are wrong. You haven't a clue.

That aside, rants such as this belong in either P&R or the dedicated Cv19 sub-forum, in The Lounge.

In my opinion. Please tell me where I'm wrong.

WhyFi 05-21-20 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by 2seven0 (Post 21489650)
Pithy insults notwithstanding ...

... blah, blah, blah...

Please tell me where I'm wrong.

This post is only worthy of pithy insults, so we're at an impasse.


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