What do people think about Bikenomics?
I'm reading this book, about halfway through, and although I'm obviously already on board the car-free train, I think she does make persuasive arguments for why living car free in a culture that subsidizes driving is an economic and political decision.
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I read this a while back and it seemed like a compendium of a lot of topics we covered here on BF...
It's interesting to view economics from a cultural catalyst like a bicycle subculture... I just read today that Sweden is thinking about paying its citizens to repair their "stuff". Which seems radical, but it also comes out of the culture of bike kitchens and co-ops where repairing recycled bicycles is a value add for the local economy. So if you need transportation you don't reach out to China to supply the demand, but instead look for existing local resources (used bicycles... that would normally go to the landfill) and use the at-hand resource. In the long run, it's gotta add to the wealth of the community. Now if that kind of thinking extends to the mainstream culture... |
We did have a thread on it - here - but always worth revisiting the topic.
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Originally Posted by willydstyle
(Post 19208087)
I think she does make persuasive arguments for why living car free in a culture that subsidizes driving is an economic and political decision.
I disagree that not using a car in the USA is inherently political or even economic. It can be, and for many in this forum it is. But this forum is not a microcosm of the country. For a lot of people, there are personal reasons that have nothing to do with anything larger. I used my bike to pick some groceries up last night when I had a car available, the reason wasn't to save money, I just wanted a bike ride. I commuted to and from work by bike until the office moved out of riding range for me; again it wasn't to save money, it was because traffic made driving times unpredictable but riding home took the same amount of time every day, which allowed me to make plans. Plus, I enjoy riding a bike. |
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
(Post 19209511)
I disagree that not using a car in the USA is inherently political or even economic...I used my bike to pick some groceries up last night when I had a car available...
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Car free and car light are almost the same thing. They're a slight difference in degree, not in kind. Car light is a long series of times when a person completes a task in a car free manner.
But trolls on this forum love to complain about other peoples' posts when these is not sufficiently dogmatic for their tastes, as we can see in #5. |
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
(Post 19209739)
Car free and car light are almost the same thing. They're a slight difference in degree, not in kind. Car light is a long series of times when a person completes a task in a car free manner.
But trolls on this forum love to complain about other peoples' posts when these is not sufficiently dogmatic for their tastes, as we can see in #5. |
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
(Post 19209511)
Would you care to summarize these arguments for us? Or share any other ideas you found compelling?
I disagree that not using a car in the USA is inherently political or even economic. It can be, and for many in this forum it is. But this forum is not a microcosm of the country. For a lot of people, there are personal reasons that have nothing to do with anything larger. I used my bike to pick some groceries up last night when I had a car available, the reason wasn't to save money, I just wanted a bike ride. I commuted to and from work by bike until the office moved out of riding range for me; again it wasn't to save money, it was because traffic made driving times unpredictable but riding home took the same amount of time every day, which allowed me to make plans. Plus, I enjoy riding a bike. |
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
(Post 19209739)
Car free and car light are almost the same thing. They're a slight difference in degree, not in kind. Car light is a long series of times when a person completes a task in a car free manner.
We are a one-vehicle family. I have two teenage drivers, soon three. But we make due with what we have. |
Originally Posted by steve-in-kville
(Post 19210094)
Yes and no.
We are a one-vehicle family. I have two teenage drivers, soon three. |
"economic and political"? Well.., which one? I don't get O.P.'s point. Like Cooker said, some opt-out of having a car for purely economic reasons. Myself, I want clean air, less traffic and to keep the body fat off, as well as save money. I find it hard to characterize that as political.
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
(Post 19209739)
Car free and car light are almost the same thing. They're a slight difference in degree, not in kind.
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 19210920)
I beg to differ. Car ownership and car light are the same thing, period. There is a difference in the degree of driving or usage of the motorized vehicle at hand, sometimes slight, sometimes not, but neither are anything close to being car free, and neither require the significant adjustment/modification to lifestyle that may be required to live car free in the U.S., especially for families.
Isn't the ultimate goal to be more efficient in our use of resources? |
Originally Posted by willydstyle
(Post 19208087)
I'm reading this book, about halfway through, and although I'm obviously already on board the car-free train, I think she does make persuasive arguments for why living car free in a culture that subsidizes driving is an economic and political decision.
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Economic, I guess so. Political, no. What about the fact that we love riding a bike and going places on it is an excuse to ride. (killing to birds with one stone) Speaking of birds, Happy Thanksgiving. Concerning Trolls, that would work, butt I'd prefer an Ogre. :lol:
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
(Post 19210626)
"economic and political"? Well.., which one? I don't get O.P.'s point. Like Cooker said, some opt-out of having a car for purely economic reasons. Myself, I want clean air, less traffic and to keep the body fat off, as well as save money. I find it hard to characterize that as political.
On a personal level I'm with you. Clean air is fundamental. The problem is that achieving it is based primarily on the behavior of other people. If the air is not clean or getting dirtier then politics will be part of the solution if there is one. |
Originally Posted by gregf83
(Post 19211092)
It's not clear how being car free but occasionally making use of a car, taxi or rental, is any different than being car light and occasionally making use of a car in your garage.
Isn't the ultimate goal to be more efficient in our use of resources? The description of "Car light" would include the examples you provide. Judging by the use of "Car light" on this forum, it also includes those who live in a household where regular/typical use is made of that car in the garage (not necessarily occasionally) by members of the household for the benefit of the household members (commuting, shopping, vacations, transporting children to school activities, etc.) just like any other car owning household, but the poster likes to ride a bike to work or other destinations and also likes to wear the label of car light for whatever reasons that suit him or her. |
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 19210920)
I beg to differ. Car ownership and car light are the same thing, period. There is a difference in the degree of driving or usage of the motorized vehicle at hand, sometimes slight, sometimes not, but neither are anything close to being car free, and neither require the significant adjustment/modification to lifestyle that may be required to live car free in the U.S., especially for families.
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 19211335)
it also includes those who live in a household where regular/typical use is made of that car in the garage (not necessarily occasionally) by members of the household for the benefit of the household members (commuting, shopping, vacations, transporting children to school activities, etc.) just like any other car owning household, but the poster likes to ride a bike to work or other destinations and also likes to wear the label of car light for whatever reasons that suit him or her.
Of course, car-light is a relative term. It means lighter than...some hypothetical alternative. Eg. (from another thread) Dave Cutter drives 3500 miles per year, while an average American drives 12-15 thousand miles. I would say that makes him car-light. |
Arguments about car-light vs car-free seem pretty pointless to me. It's clear that any reduction in single-occupancy automotive use is a good thing due to less space being taken up on the roads, less oil being burned (plastics made from oil have the lowest lifetime environmental impact, making oil a manufacturing feedstock that is too important to burn), less air pollution, and a healthier population overall.
The decision to drive less or not at all is a political one because policy makers who decide how to distribute public resources pay attention to how people travel, whether you want them to or not. The fact of the matter is that in many communities there are fierce political battles waged over whether or not road space should be allocated to non-automotive users, and people who make the decision to ride in roads are also making a political statement by their very existence. |
Originally Posted by 1989Pre
(Post 19210626)
"economic and political"? Well.., which one? I don't get O.P.'s point. Like Cooker said, some opt-out of having a car for purely economic reasons. Myself, I want clean air, less traffic and to keep the body fat off, as well as save money. I find it hard to characterize that as political.
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Originally Posted by baldilocks
(Post 19211149)
Economic, I guess so. Political, no. What about the fact that we love riding a bike and going places on it is an excuse to ride. (killing to birds with one stone) Speaking of birds, Happy Thanksgiving. Concerning Trolls, that would work, butt I'd prefer an Ogre. :lol:
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Originally Posted by Roody
(Post 19213891)
I think the "clean air" part is definitely political.
No.., its a question of ethics, not politics. |
"Clean air" may not be political. Cleaning the air or preventing more pollution is.
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Originally Posted by gregf83
(Post 19211092)
It's not clear how being car free but occasionally making use of a car, taxi or rental, is any different than being car light and occasionally making use of a car in your garage.
Isn't the ultimate goal to be more efficient in our use of resources? |
Originally Posted by Walter S
(Post 19214954)
"Clean air" may not be political. Cleaning the air or preventing more pollution is.
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