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-   -   Help me compare Geometry, please! (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1088970)

Wspsux 11-20-16 06:46 PM

Help me compare Geometry, please!
 
Hi Guys-

I'm between these two bikes, which happen to be the same model. Im considering going between the new model and the 2016.

I know what the reach on the 2017 is (439mm) but I don't know what it would be on the 2016.

Where things get confusing for me is the disparity between the top tubes on the large model.

The 2017 TT is 620 mm with a 67.5 HTA and 73 STA

The 2016 TT is 600mm with a 69 HTA and 73 STA.

So what does all this mean with regards to fit? Why would the Large suddenly grow by 20 MM.


might be worth noting the 2017 is a 27.5+ while the 2016 is 27.5

Thanks!

solorider 11-20-16 09:21 PM

whichever one says Scott..I'd vote for the plus though

McBTC 11-20-16 11:27 PM

67.5 is pretty slack so, with some stem elevation the handlebar positon might end up about where the bars on the bike with the shorter TT will be...

gsa103 11-21-16 09:09 AM

Bike manufacturers have been shifting to long top tube + short stem. It wouldn't surprise if the stock stem also shrank by 20mm, putting the handlebars in exactly the same position. Unfortunately, the spec sheets never mention stem length so it's a toss up.

The other option is that with the slack angle, they lengthed the top tube to keep weight forward. Slack HTA is great for descending, but there's a tendency for the front end to lift/wander on steep climbs. Shifting weight forward helps cut that down.

osco53 11-26-16 11:10 AM


Originally Posted by Wspsux (Post 19204101)
Hi Guys-

I'm between these two bikes, which happen to be the same model. Im considering going between the new model and the 2016.
I know what the reach on the 2017 is (439mm) but I don't know what it would be on the 2016.
Where things get confusing for me is the disparity between the top tubes on the large model.
The 2017 TT is 620 mm with a 67.5 HTA and 73 STA
The 2016 TT is 600mm with a 69 HTA and 73 STA.
So what does all this mean with regards to fit? Why would the Large suddenly grow by 20 MM.
might be worth noting the 2017 is a 27.5+ while the 2016 is 27.5
Thanks!


Why would the Large suddenly grow by 20 MM.
Longer top tubes put us naturally lower, Lower Is faster,
Longer top tubes let us run shorter stems, Shorter stem bikes steer with less, 'Tiller' effect, think faster more precise, but to a new rider would feel twitchy. Anyone would soon get used to faster steering and love it over tiller,,
most anyone that is.
In many cases a shorter stemmed bike would requier us to become better climbers, we would need to pedal much more smoothly, get better at pedaling In circles as mashing would make a plus tire bounce sooner than a regular tire. Body position becomes far more critical as shorter stemed bikes with a bouncy driver would tend to pop the front end up on steep climbs. And the pot thickens because these longer lower positions should make us climb better If and Only IF we do It right.

I simply had to get my torso lower over the stem, get my back arched a bit more, get right up on my saddle nose, look ahead and most Importantly pedal smoother. Took me a few rides, still getting better. Considering a stem thats 10mm longer but would not want to loose any of the fantastic descent ability this bike/geo gives me.

IMHO Slacker Is better every where I ride with more attention to detail when I climb steep stuff being the only challenge.
I am meeting that challenge just fine.

The 2016 TT is 600mm with a 69 HTA and 73 STA.
Steeper HT angles are better suited to cross country riding and excel In climbing efficiancy.
Harder to handle in the tight stuff, think switch backs and technical single tracks.
Can get twitchy at big speeds.

While Slacker:
The 2017 TT is 620 mm with a 67.5 HTA and 73 STA
Slacker Is Far better suited to going down hill and railing corners and In General,, IN MY OPINION more funner :P
Very Stable, more so the faster you go down hills, drops, corners and at big speeds out in the open,,,, F-U-N-N-E-R~

2017 is a 27.5+ while the 2016 is 27.5
I'm Biased because I'm newly riding a 2017 Scott Scale 720 PLUS bike,
Very slack, 66.7 I think,, what eva~

We pick tires for the trails we ride, 27.5 plus Is still new but helps me big time, I have more loose trails and lots of sugar sand.
Has far more traction than regular 27.5 and on some trails will be too much traction,,yep this is now possible.
27.5 Plus bikes have boost and most can run 29 x 2.3 tires also,,very versatile IMO.

As for STA,, 74 degrees would put a rider in a more powerful pedaling position, being more over the pedals, you follow me ? Also a climbing advantage on those long grinders that make our legs scream. I have about 72.8 on the seat tube and am happy. BUT don't forget that we can move around on and get out of the saddle.

Saddles have three riding positions,
Power, up on the nose,, seat angle feels like 75-74, Key for me to climb steep stuff.
Ride, Is mid saddle, 72-73, Here I stay loose and when I pop up I am more likely to land on the saddle with the bike moving Independently around under me.
The Rear end of the saddle, resting or sand plowing or mellow descending Is done here,, 72ish.

Steeper STA's I think, not sure, tend to be stiffer for a minimal gain In pedal power but a minimally harsher ride,
Not noticeable to the masses, just the gonzo rubber people and the pro's. :D

Wspsux 11-27-16 10:02 PM

Wound up going with the 2016 for three reasons. The fork, longer reach (I spent lots of time bothering the engineers over at raleigh) and availability :p

The bike is a Raleigh Tokul 4130 scored at a killer deal.


thanks for the replies!


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