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-   -   Tubeless touring? (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1129977)

DeepSpace 12-06-17 01:35 PM

Tubeless touring?
 
Anybody tour tubeless?
All my bikes are tubeless. I have done overnight trips on my Fat Chace tubeless but.....
Days on the road might be another story. Leaving with a tubeless set up and install tubes if needed is appealing.

fantom1 12-06-17 01:53 PM

:popcorn
:innocent:

PedalingWalrus 12-06-17 02:30 PM

I tour tubeless on my fat bike although I usually only do weekends (2 nights)

Not on my Disc Trucker though. Haven't made the plunge yet.

nickw 12-06-17 02:51 PM

I use it extensively on MTB, Cross and soon on the road bike but have not made the leap to touring. It certainly does reduce flats, without question, although I typically tour with heavier duty tires and rarely get them even with tubes. There are some trade-offs, but to your point, you can always do it and if you get a flat just throw in a tube.

Pros:
1) eliminates most small puncture flats
2) ability to run lower pressure w/o pinch flats
3) based on #1 and #2 you can run lighter weight tires with good puncture resistance.

Cons:
1) requires tubeless rims
2) requires a bit of experimentation / know how to get right
3) can be messy when putting in a tube on side of the road
4) requires maintenance
5) can be a PITA to get on tires - generally not an issue but I've had stubborn CX tires that could not be removed without extensive use of tools...it's rare, but it happens

I use tubes on tubeless rims so I have the option if needed at a future date. But for me it's not generally worth it but do have several buddies that do it.

tyrion 12-06-17 03:10 PM

Lots of off road tourists go tubeless with fatter tires. But I get the impression that for skinnier tires the kinks are still being worked out of the tubeless technology.

linus 12-06-17 03:10 PM

Tubeless is great, but I don't set my touring bike up tubeless because I usually travel far to start riding so I have to deflate the tires or take them off. I'm too lazy to set it up again.

Every other bikes, I have no problem with tubeless.

JohnJ80 12-06-17 03:21 PM

That's my plan for this summer. Tubeless with 30c Schwalbe G-1 speed tires. I have the plug kits for bigger punctures and a spare tube. Good to go.

J.

DeepSpace 12-06-17 03:37 PM

I have Compass Rat Traps on Velocity rims, they mount easily. As said not all do. Thanks for input. Sticking with it. Locally tubeless on roads isn't that well embraced and no tourist I met at my west end shop location was running tubeless.

Rob_E 12-06-17 03:51 PM

My tours are never more than a week or two. I don't know if that makes a difference, but I've had no qualms about taking my tubeless commuter set-up on the road/trail for several days. I carry a small bottle of sealant, a tubeless patch kit, and a tube. Haven't needed any of that to date.

fietsbob 12-06-17 05:15 PM

I wouldn't hold you back , but I use inner-tubes .. last tour they were thorn resistant.. 0 punctures.

chrisx 12-06-17 09:55 PM

Tubeless is the future.
If you are buying new rims, get tubeless ready rims.

Leebo 12-07-17 01:04 PM

Future? You mean now. Been running tubeless for 5 years on the mt bike. The Karate Monkey bikepacker is set up tubeless. Spare inner tube, patch kit, plug kit, needle and thread with a tube of stans, all good.

manapua_man 12-10-17 09:26 PM


Originally Posted by DeepSpace (Post 20037021)
Anybody tour tubeless?
All my bikes are tubeless. I have done overnight trips on my Fat Chace tubeless but.....
Days on the road might be another story. Leaving with a tubeless set up and install tubes if needed is appealing.


I wouldn't mind running tubeless on a longer tour, but I wouldn't go out of my way to switch over either. IMHO the only real benefit you would get on a touring bike is puncture resistance...which you could probably get by shoving some sealant into a regular inner tube.

rifraf 12-10-17 09:53 PM

I'm about to give ghetto tubeless a whirl on my bike.
For those unsure what it is, it utilises tubes that have been split and the edges sit, after trimming, slightly proud of the external edges of the tire where it grips the rim.
Roughly following the method outlined here:
Ghetto tubeless conversion DIY: tips and tricks | Ridemonkey Forums
I've not tried tubeless before and have no interest in buying new rims or specialised tires.
I'm heading in this direction due to a sudden spate of punctures due to an abundance of thorns in my area.
I've not suffered from thorns previously but three punctures in three outings means something has to change.

JohnJ80 12-10-17 10:32 PM


Originally Posted by manapua_man (Post 20045176)
I wouldn't mind running tubeless on a longer tour, but I wouldn't go out of my way to switch over either. IMHO the only real benefit you would get on a touring bike is puncture resistance...which you could probably get by shoving some sealant into a regular inner tube.

I mounted a set of Schwalbe G-1 speeds on a set of rims with tubes. Then I did the same thing mounting it tubeless. Tubeless was a much different, better ride. Much more supple tire, cornered better, was noticeably lighter etc.. Mounting tubeless isn't hard at all. My tour this summer will be tubeless.

J.

chrisx 12-10-17 10:52 PM


Originally Posted by manapua_man (Post 20045176)
puncture resistance...which you could probably get by shoving some sealant into a regular inner tube.

Dont work that way,

manapua_man 12-10-17 11:13 PM


Originally Posted by chrisx (Post 20045279)
Dont work that way,


Might not be as ideal but I don't see that as being any different from those pre-filled tubes that I've used when they were the only thing available...and those do work alright for smaller punctures.



Originally Posted by JohnJ80 (Post 20045259)
I mounted a set of Schwalbe G-1 speeds on a set of rims with tubes. Then I did the same thing mounting it tubeless. Tubeless was a much different, better ride. Much more supple tire, cornered better, was noticeably lighter etc.. Mounting tubeless isn't hard at all. My tour this summer will be tubeless.

J.

I have tubeless on my CX and mountain bikes. I don't find the difference to be great enough on pavement for me to bother switching over on my other bikes (especially bikes that are going to be loaded down) unless I'm going to be replacing a rim anyway.

JohnJ80 12-11-17 07:45 AM


Originally Posted by manapua_man (Post 20045299)
I have tubeless on my CX and mountain bikes. I don't find the difference to be great enough on pavement for me to bother switching over on my other bikes (especially bikes that are going to be loaded down) unless I'm going to be replacing a rim anyway.

I think the tire matters. Older tubeless tires had considerably stiffer sidewalls and were heavy. The Schwalbe G-1 speeds are a major departure from prior attempts. They are light, supple and there was a distinct difference between running them with tubes and without. So in this case, we disagree. Losing 100g per tire is also a really nice bonus.

J.

msbiker 12-11-17 09:48 AM

I did about 700 miles on the Great Divide this summer using tubeless 2.2 tires. While the rims were not "tubeless ready" they worked fine. Still carried some tubes and a pump. On a recent day ride on a gravel bike, I sliced the sidewall on a 40mm tubeless tire. Used a spare tube and a park sidewall patch to get me home.

I think tubeless on fine for touring, but still need to carry a tube, pump and patch kit. It is very unlikely that you will be able to pop a tubeless bead back onto to the rim with a hand pump.

seeker333 12-11-17 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by msbiker (Post 20045887)
...I think tubeless on fine for touring, but still need to carry a tube, pump and patch kit. It is very unlikely that you will be able to pop a tubeless bead back onto to the rim with a hand pump.

That's a pretty good argument for sticking with inner tubes.

1. Probably can't refit tire on the side of the road, forcing inevitable tube use regardless.
2. Carrying all the stuff for tubes and tubeless, so more load.
3. Every time I've compared, tubeless is a net increase in rotating weight of tire over a lightweight inner tube.
4. Tubeless costs more and materials have lower availability than inner tubes.

nickw 12-11-17 01:20 PM

I'll say it again - the only benefit to touring with tubeless is puncture resistance, which is really only a benefit if you wanna use light(ish) tires.

I have several thousand miles of riding (in Oregon and California, granted it's not Arizona or Australia) with 0 punctures.....with proper HD 'touring' tires like the Schwalbes. I have been on the tubeless bandwagon for several years with the other bikes but don't see myself going to tubeless on the touring rig. It's not field serviceable (in most cases) and not worth the hassle.

nickw 12-11-17 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by JohnJ80 (Post 20045576)
I think the tire matters. Older tubeless tires had considerably stiffer sidewalls and were heavy. The Schwalbe G-1 speeds are a major departure from prior attempts. They are light, supple and there was a distinct difference between running them with tubes and without. So in this case, we disagree. Losing 100g per tire is also a really nice bonus.

J.

Never used the G-1's, but in general, you do need a much more 'robust' sidewall since sidewall tears/punctures are a game ender for a tubeless setup, especially on gravel. That normally means thicker and stiffer. Lots of guys around here won't run the lighter sidewalled tubeless tires in gravel events because of this.

Funny ironic side note - as I'm typing this, got an email from a buddy saying over the wknd he tore the sidewall on a G-1 on a training ride (no touring load, just him and the bike)...coming from a guy who is a consistent podium finisher at many gravel events, says he won't use em again. YMMV.

dim 12-11-17 01:55 PM

I'm using tubeless on my roadbike and loving it! ...

I have a Giant TCR (full carbon) and I had a wheelset built for me (HED Belgium Plus rims, Chris King R45 hubs (with the ceramic bearings), Sapim CX Ray spokes.

I'm training for long Audax rides and will be using tubeless tyres

I researched for tubeless tyres and settled on the 2017 IRC Formula Pro RBCC tubeless road tyres.... grip like superglue, and roll really well. (These tyres are not the fastest of the IRC bunch, but they roll faster than Conti GP4000 Sii but grip much better, and I wanted something to do lots of miles during winter... I will try the lighter tubeless IRC tyres in Spring aswell as some other tyres from Schwalbe, Hutchinson etc

One puncture so far, and it self sealed .... 2 competitive rides with these tyres (one Audax ride of 100km where I finished 4th and a 50km sportive where I finished 1st)

I am looking at buying a Scott Addict and I will also have a light tubeless ready wheelset built for this bike ...

If I were to tour, I'd use tubeless .... nice thing about using tubeless ready rims, is that you can also use normal clinchers with tubes, so it gives you a bigger choice of tyres

JohnJ80 12-11-17 02:35 PM


Originally Posted by nickw (Post 20046445)
Never used the G-1's, but in general, you do need a much more 'robust' sidewall since sidewall tears/punctures are a game ender for a tubeless setup, especially on gravel. That normally means thicker and stiffer. Lots of guys around here won't run the lighter sidewalled tubeless tires in gravel events because of this.

Funny ironic side note - as I'm typing this, got an email from a buddy saying over the wknd he tore the sidewall on a G-1 on a training ride (no touring load, just him and the bike)...coming from a guy who is a consistent podium finisher at many gravel events, says he won't use em again. YMMV.

There isn't a tire made where you can't find someone who passionately loves that tire right alongside someone who just as passionately hates it. That said, this tire works just fine for me and has been very robust in gravel. No issues. Please understand, I'm not advocating this tire as a be-all tire for everyone. My point is this: There are some innovations happening in the tubeless world in the development of tires that is having a big impact and the ride quality and the tire capability is changing rapidly.

My normal road tires are tubulars which I ride because I like the suppleness and the ride quality. I rarely get flats (i.e. no pinch flats). Riding the G-1's, I find that the ride is just as nice, more plush and not harsh at all. That has been the traditional problem for me with most tubeless tires to date - they feel like truck tires on a bike.

My choice in tubular has been the Clement LGG in 25c which is a tubeless tubular. I've been riding those (or similar tires) since I got rid of clinchers about 10 years ago. When I made the change, I went from 6-8 flats per year to 0-1. In the last two years I have not had a flat in either of those years over multiple tires. So that would be around 15 total flats avoided. I attribute that to largely the elimination of pinch flats and any small punctures are sealed by the sealant. Tubeless clinchers, especially in the wider tire sizes offer the same advantages but the ride quality as been pretty lousy to date. I think that tide has turned.

With that history of punctures (or lack there of), I have no issues with the Schwalbe tubeless which are just as robust as my tubulars. Granted most of that has been on the road, but the experience on gravel in the last two years has been parallel to the experience on the road. I'm expecting we're going to see a lot more tubeless tires that have superb ride quality show up in the next 18 months.

Carrying an extra tire on tour is something you have to do anyhow. If that's the price I pay for getting great ride quality then I'd far rather do that than use some boat anchor of a tire won't be as much fun to ride and will drag on my legs every stroke of the pedals. I see absolutely no reason not to use tubeless tires on a tour.

J.

dim 12-11-17 02:43 PM


Originally Posted by JohnJ80 (Post 20046585)
There isn't a tire made where you can't find someone who passionately loves that tire right alongside someone who just as passionately hates it. That said, this tire works just fine for me and has been very robust in gravel. No issues. Please understand, I'm not advocating this tire as a be-all tire for everyone. My point is this: There are some innovations happening in the tubeless world in the development of tires that is having a big impact and the ride quality and the tire capability is changing rapidly.

My normal road tires are tubulars which I ride because I like the suppleness and the ride quality. I rarely get flats (i.e. no pinch flats). Riding the G-1's, I find that the ride is just as nice, more plush and not harsh at all. That has been the traditional problem for me with most tubeless tires to date - they feel like truck tires on a bike.

My choice in tubular has been the Clement LGG in 25c which is a tubeless tubular. I've been riding those (or similar tires) since I got rid of clinchers about 10 years ago. When I made the change, I went from 6-8 flats per year to 0-1. In the last two years I have not had a flat in either of those years over multiple tires. So that would be around 15 total flats avoided. I attribute that to largely the elimination of pinch flats and any small punctures are sealed by the sealant. Tubeless clinchers, especially in the wider tire sizes offer the same advantages but the ride quality as been pretty lousy to date. I think that tide has turned.

With that history of punctures (or lack there of), I have no issues with the Schwalbe tubeless which are just as robust as my tubulars. Granted most of that has been on the road, but the experience on gravel in the last two years has been parallel to the experience on the road. I'm expecting we're going to see a lot more tubeless tires that have superb ride quality show up in the next 18 months.

Carrying an extra tire on tour is something you have to do anyhow. If that's the price I pay for getting great ride quality then I'd far rather do that than use some boat anchor of a tire won't be as much fun to ride and will drag on my legs every stroke of the pedals. I see absolutely no reason not to use tubeless tires on a tour.

J.

good post .... :thumb:


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