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-   -   Suggestions for light touring setup (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=912699)

Whittaker 09-13-13 08:06 AM

Suggestions for light touring setup
 
Hi all, first post but I've been lurking for a while. My question to the touring community is this.

I currently have a Dawes Horizon (possibly early 2000s) touring bike, replete with rack and back pannier bags. I have ridden this across half of Europe and many other places, and it's been good to me.
However, I want to ride across all of Europe and further out East possibly next year, and I am thinking of ways to make this a nicer ride in terms of the setup.

I recently did an ironman and borrowed a Feltz F4 for it. It was unreal how light it was, possibly largely due to the carbon frame. I also rode (unsupported) the length of the UK with an old racing bike (80s) racked up with back panniers. I know both of these bikes are meant for unloaded speed hops, but since the old racer made the UK ride and that was pretty light I'm curious about how to make this ride across Europe faster and lighter than the fully loaded Dawes.

I know some of these round-the-world speed attempts go for fast expensive light rides, and those sponsored custom jobs are certainly out of my price bracket - but any thoughts on a happy medium?

Perhaps people have experience of taking the bare minimum kit too? Possibly getting by with just one of those saddle duffel bags too?

nun 09-13-13 03:42 PM

If you know you'll be on reasonably good roads and resupply is relatively easy a lightweight tourer is great. Serious adventurers have made them work on round the world and expedition trips, but for mortals it's probably best to use a bike with more carrying capability and wider tires the farther you get away from civilization.

But if you are thinking of riding across Europe a lightweight tourer would be great and you can pick from any number of steel or carbon relaxed geometry bikes as long as you figure out how to carry your gear without having to resort to massive panniers. So I'd figure out your gear first.

As an example I've gone from a steel sport tourer to a Cervelo RS by incrementally modifying my gear and i far prefer the ride of the Cervelo, particularly when climbing and descending. Search on lightweight or ultralight and you'll come up with lots of examples of people's setups and trips. There's a particularly good discussion here:

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?doc_id=9738

This summer I rode the Cervelo RS about 550 miles from Boston to Buffalo and here is my setup.

http://wheelsofchance.wordpress.com/.../25/gear-list/

Barrettscv 09-13-13 04:00 PM

There are a few Carbon Fiber Cyclocross bikes that can fit 700x35 tires and have rear rack mounts. They also feature 425mm chainstays for a longer wheelbase. I would consider This frame: http://pedalforce.com/online/product...ducts_id=21005


http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l.../IMG_09601.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l.../IMG_09611.jpg

nun 09-13-13 04:27 PM

Yeah the Carbon CX bikes look as if they'll make excellent lightweight tourers and the room for bigger tires will be useful in some situations. I like that Pedal Force say that the underside of the frame is flat for "easier shouldering". Something I like about lightweight touring is the ease of picking the loaded bike up to get across obstacles or carry up steps.

antokelly 09-15-13 05:40 AM

I like the look of that pedalforce bike.do they make it in 51cm i wonder.are there any reviews on it.
it certainly would make a great tourer and audax bike and its a good price.
only problem besides me being broke it would cost as much again to ship to Ireland.

robow 09-15-13 07:07 PM

or you can go Ti cyclocross as well to shave a few pounds

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm320/robow7/027.jpg

dbg 09-16-13 12:02 AM

1 Attachment(s)
650B wheels and grand bois 32's on 853 steel frame:

antokelly 09-16-13 04:55 AM


Originally Posted by dbg (Post 16069785)
650B wheels and grand bois 32's on 853 steel frame:

very nice i like it.
what do you think of the grand bios tyres please.i know they do a touring tyre i was very temped to buy but expensive.

BigAura 09-16-13 05:50 AM

Since you have touring experience, reducing your kit is the first thing you should do. Eliminating items costs nothing, money wise. See what it left, and then focus on the heaviest and bulkiest items that remain. Eliminate or replace what you can afford. Then it's time to decide how to carry it.

Here's what I ended up with:
http://ziligy.com/photos/posts/CrossCheckUltralight.jpg

In the end I realized that minimalism at this level works and you can get "there" faster but a carrying a little more comfort just takes a little more time.

nun 09-16-13 06:21 AM

+1 about working on gear first. If you can get away from the need to use eylets then lots of bikes become potential tourers. Here's my set up

http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...8/nobagman.jpg

antokelly 09-16-13 09:17 AM


Originally Posted by nun (Post 16070167)
+1 about working on gear first. If you can get away from the need to use eylets then lots of bikes become potential tourers. Here's my set up

http://wheelsofchance.files.wordpres...8/nobagman.jpg

hell of a bike is that a compact chainset you have on there.
is your set up for b@b surly you dont carry a tent.
why you never fitted mudguards to that bike is a mystery to me given the amount of touring you do.i'm at this moment tryingto figure out how to attach mudguards to my raleigh 753.SKS chtomoplastic 700 x 35.going to make for a nice dry ride when roads are soaked:thumb:

anyway class bike.

nun 09-16-13 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by antokelly (Post 16070818)
hell of a bike is that a compact chainset you have on there.
is your set up for b@b surly you dont carry a tent.
why you never fitted mudguards to that bike is a mystery to me given the amount of touring you do.i'm at this moment tryingto figure out how to attach mudguards to my raleigh 753.SKS chtomoplastic 700 x 35.going to make for a nice dry ride when roads are soaked:thumb:

anyway class bike.

Thanks

It's a modified compact chainset. The bike comes with a 50/34 and I'm running a 46/34. The cassette is a 12/25 and I thought I might replace it with a SRAM 12/36 and an X9 medium cage derailleur, but the current gearing worked ok for my recent trips.

What you see is everything I take with me. There is a Tarptent Contrail single walled tent in the saddlebag along with my sleep bag, mat etc. If you use lightweight gear and compression sacks it's amazing how small you can get stuff. I'll camp when the weather is nice, but if a motel is available I'll usually just get a room. My setup is not particularly minimalist, there are folks who carry a lot less.

Regular fenders won't fit on the Cervelo, maybe some Crudcatchers would, but I just don't bother with them. If it's raining hard I'll just wait it out. I've learned not to have a schedule on a bike trip so I don't really see the need to ride in the rain.

fietsbob 09-16-13 10:27 AM

western Ireland and the Oregon coast are similar, in that if you wait out a storm
its a day, rather than an hour or 2 ..

I did like the Independent Hostels in Ireland , there you can stay in for foul weather ,
and go back to camping again, when the heavy storms pass ..

but the roads may not dry out so then mudguards are always useful..

YMMV of course ..

but the big canvas saddle bag plus a good sized handlebar bag
will let you use any bike you wish .. a traditional bit of kit.

antokelly 09-16-13 01:42 PM

each to there own but if i can fit mudguards to my 753 i will keeps pilot and gear dry.

i was a while ago( i gave up te ghost) searching for compression bags there quiet expensive 12 to 15 euro a go .are there any good deals out there that i dont know about:)

nun 09-22-13 09:35 PM


Originally Posted by fietsbob (Post 16071170)
western Ireland and the Oregon coast are similar, in that if you wait out a storm
its a day, rather than an hour or 2 ..

I did like the Independent Hostels in Ireland , there you can stay in for foul weather ,
and go back to camping again, when the heavy storms pass ..

but the roads may not dry out so then mudguards are always useful..

YMMV of course ..

Staying in one place for a day can be nice.


but the big canvas saddle bag plus a good sized handlebar bag
will let you use any bike you wish .. a traditional bit of kit.
Yes that combo gets away from the need for eyelets so it opens up most bikes including CX bikes, 29ers and bikes influenced by the designs for the Northern Classics. Of course bikepacking luggage does that too, the canvas saddlebag is just a bit more traditional.

vik 09-23-13 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by Whittaker (Post 16061140)
Perhaps people have experience of taking the bare minimum kit too? Possibly getting by with just one of those saddle duffel bags too?

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3732/9...2502c19c_b.jpg

As ultra-light bike tourists go I'm not that "ultra", but the image above is a week's worth of gear including camping, cooking and purifying water. I tour in Canada so summer still requires a cold weather gear and that's in there as well as rain gear.

Forget that it's a mountain bike. You can use the same approach on a road bike or cyclocross bike.

If you are staying in hostels or couch surfing and eating cold meals or buying prepared foods you can drop a bunch of stuff I have in those bags.

My transition from 4 panniers + handlebar bag + stuff on top of my racks to this took some time, but the most effective thing I did was buy small bags and force myself to only take what I could fit inside.

Even when camping deep in the backcountry I don't wish I had more stuff with me.

nun 09-23-13 09:37 AM


Originally Posted by vik (Post 16094978)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3732/9...2502c19c_b.jpg

As ultra-light bike tourists go I'm not that "ultra", but the image above is a week's worth of gear including camping, cooking and purifying water. I tour in Canada so summer still requires a cold weather gear and that's in there as well as rain gear.

Forget that it's a mountain bike. You can use the same approach on a road bike or cyclocross bike.

If you are staying in hostels or couch surfing and eating cold meals or buying prepared foods you can drop a bunch of stuff I have in those bags.

My transition from 4 panniers + handlebar bag + stuff on top of my racks to this took some time, but the most effective thing I did was buy small bags and force myself to only take what I could fit inside.

Even when camping deep in the backcountry I don't wish I had more stuff with me.

Nice bikepacking rig. Seeing it and the scenery tempts me to get off road more than I do.; on 25mm tires I'm pretty much restricted to well groomed trails. I'm sure regular bike tourists are going to be using more bikepacking luggage in the future. However, the handlbar bags/rolls can be difficult to use with drop bars and I'll never take to using a backpack for anything other than emergencies like needing somewhere to carry that 6 pack.

vik 09-23-13 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by nun (Post 16095185)
Nice bikepacking rig. Seeing it and the scenery tempts me to get off road more than I do.; on 25mm tires I'm pretty much restricted to well groomed trails. I'm sure regular bike tourists are going to be using more bikepacking luggage in the future. However, the handlbar bags/rolls can be difficult to use with drop bars and I'll never take to using a backpack for anything other than emergencies like needing somewhere to carry that 6 pack.

Thanks...the Surly Krampus has proven to be a great touring rig...:thumb:

I've pretty much completely switched up to mountain bike touring. On a tour this summer I followed a totally mellow road for a day to connect up a dirt loop and although this was a great paved bike touring road I just couldn't wait to get back on dirt. The almost complete lack of cars and other people makes touring dirt so much more peaceful and what you lose in access to services you gain in exploring amazing places you have all to yourself.

You are right that the typical bikepacking handlebar bag isn't ideal for drop bars, but people use them just stuffed less full so they sit between the drops.

I would have said the same thing about wearing backpacks on tour a few years ago, but I am totally comfortable with them now. I keep the heavy items on my bike including water and tools. Usually my pack contains food and gets lighter everyday on tour. Since I ride where things are rough I rarely sit for hours at a time which eliminates back/saddle issues and hike-a-bike is a normal part of my day and wearing a backpack makes the bike easier to push and carry.

Since I wear "normal" shoes and use flat pedals I can transition from bike tourist to hiker pretty seamlessly if I want to explore on foot and a backpack is handy for that.

BTW - Scott at Porcelain Rocket [made my bags] does full custom work so you can get a front bag made to work specifically with drop bars or have any other modifications made you would like.

I've also used hybrid luggage systems with racks and panniers + soft frame/bar bags. You can mix and match to get the best setup for a specific tour.

What I like most about these softbags is not so much the lightweight [which is nice] it's that I can ride my mountain bike as if it was a mountain bike on rough terrain without having to think about breaking a rack or damaging a pannier mount. That puts a big smile on my face. :)

dbg 09-23-13 10:44 AM


Originally Posted by antokelly (Post 16070021)
very nice i like it.
what do you think of the grand bios tyres please.i know they do a touring tyre i was very temped to buy but expensive.

sorry for the delay (work keeps getting in my way) I was concerned about durability initially since they don't have thick tread or kevlar shielding. I added tire patch material to my bags and went on a 600+ mile trip anyway. The Grand Bois 32's were comfortable --more so than I expected. I think I'm sold and will use them more and more.

vik 09-23-13 10:59 AM


Originally Posted by antokelly (Post 16070021)
what do you think of the grand bios tyres please.i know they do a touring tyre i was very temped to buy but expensive.

I've used GB tires on my rando bike, my commuter bike and my GF's commuter bike. Great tires. My commuter bike also happens to be my road touring bike and I wouldn't hesitate to use them for that purpose.

I haven't had a flat in several thousand KMs of use and my GF has either had 1 or zero flats on hers in 2yrs of commuting.

They aren't cheap, but tires are the fastest, easiest and cheapest way to improve the performance of your bike so I find the investment worth it.

nun 09-23-13 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by vik (Post 16095433)

You are right that the typical bikepacking handlebar bag isn't ideal for drop bars, but people use them just stuffed less full so they sit between the drops.

Yes I often see bikepackers with pretty large front rolls containing sleeping bags or tents etc and using them with drop bars would require some rethinking of that normal practice to make the roll fit inside the drops.


I would have said the same thing about wearing backpacks on tour a few years ago, but I am totally comfortable with them now. I keep the heavy items on my bike including water and tools. Usually my pack contains food and gets lighter everyday on tour. Since I ride where things are rough I rarely sit for hours at a time which eliminates back/saddle issues and hike-a-bike is a normal part of my day and wearing a backpack makes the bike easier to push and carry.
My experiences of riding with a backpack as a teenager definitely prejudice me against them. But that was before the harnesses got so much better. I do carry a small silnylon back pack as extra carrying capacity and for days off the bike, but my setup was designed to avoid a backpack and if I need to carry extra stuff my first inclination is to strap it to the saddlebag or stuff it inside under the "longflap"


BTW - Scott at Porcelain Rocket [made my bags] does full custom work so you can get a front bag made to work specifically with drop bars or have any other modifications made you would like.
I was once tempted to see if I could get a traditional saddlebag made out of modern materials as I bet you could easily save a pound. But for now the Carradice Camper works amazingly well. It's easy to get at stuff with its side pockets and wide drawcord opening to the main compartment. the Ortlieb handlebar bag isn't perfect as the lid can be a pain to close and the strap attachment is a bit fiddly, but it's quite light and sturdy, carries all my necessary stuff, when the soulder strap is on it's easy to carry around and the Klickfix mounting is very convenient and it's perfect for drop handlebars.

Having just two bags makes it easy to deal with travel off the bike too, which is a consideration for many road tourers, probably not as much for the bikepackers. I can pack the bike up and take my bags on most modes of transportation as hand luggage. And finally there's cost; the Caradice Camper is $85 and the Ortlieb Classic costs around $95.....and you could easily use a far less expensive front bag. The bikepacking bags are still a bit expensive if you get them from the small shops.



What I like most about these softbags is not so much the lightweight [which is nice] it's that I can ride my mountain bike as if it was a mountain bike on rough terrain without having to think about breaking a rack or damaging a pannier mount. That puts a big smile on my face. :)
I like not having racks for the same reasons. Even with 25mm tires I don't worry too much about reasonable off road stuff (as long as it's dry) as I know I'm not going to break a rack or get hung up on vegetation and it's easy to get out of the saddle on steep stuff. Also if there's something to climb over or cross I can shoulder the bike and carry it. I had to do that a few times on the Erie bike path to get over fallen trees and through some parts that were under construction.

ekibayno 09-23-13 10:07 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Light but strong and fast with comfortable endurance geometry and quite low gearing. Specialized Roubaix
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=342469

Arkel Randonneur rack and trunk bag.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=342471

Thule aerodynamic handlebar bag.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=342472

Tallac Kargo tool bag.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=342473

nun 09-24-13 07:59 PM


Originally Posted by ekibayno (Post 16097783)
Light but strong and fast with comfortable endurance geometry and quite low gearing. Specialized Roubaix
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=342469

I'm surprised the Roubaix gearing is as low as it is; 50/34 x 12/30 gives a lowest gear of 31". I considered the Roubaix when I was looking for a light tourer. The Trek Domane 4.3 also looks like a good option.

ekibayno 09-25-13 02:54 AM


Originally Posted by nun (Post 16100985)
I'm surprised the Roubaix gearing is as low as it is; 50/34 x 12/30 gives a lowest gear of 31". I considered the Roubaix when I was looking for a light tourer. The Trek Domane 4.3 also looks like a good option.

Actually it is 50/34 x 11/32 for a lowest gear of 28". So the change to 11 speed added a gear to the lower range.

nun 09-26-13 03:05 PM


Originally Posted by ekibayno (Post 16101579)
Actually it is 50/34 x 11/32 for a lowest gear of 28". So the change to 11 speed added a gear to the lower range.

Yes that is low, I must have gone off onto one of the other numerous variants of the Roubaix. Still, any of the "Endurance" bikes made today look interesting for road touring if you don't need racks and panniers. It's a shame that Cervelo stopped making the RS because it worked really well on the Erie canal bike path.


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