Are frames important for a training bike?
 

I got a Wahoo Kickr last year, haven't even unboxed it yet but got the garage space cleared/prepped. Going to look for a training bike to place on it (don't want to use my bikes I ride outside).

Thinking it over, I'm assuming that the drivetrain and comfort points (saddle, handlebars) are important but that the wheels clearly aren't - and what of the frame? Logic says I could find a 'meh' frame with a nice groupset and be good, but am I missing something?

I would argue that even the nice groupset is overkill. A nice frame certainly is

Personally, I want a fit that is as close as can be to what I ride outside. One can develop bad habits regarding body position, they can be then be transferred to the position on your outside bike. Conversely, with the right set up, improvement can be accomplished with a bike on a trainer. I am not much concerned with the frame material, component quality level or wheels/tires. Having said that, I have done no indoor pedaling/spinning in a couple of years. I do not like it, I refuse to call it riding. That's just me.

OK, this is a joke but it does point out the important stuff.

We all know the contact points and there locations are important. Some say all-important. But .. without a suitable frame, keeping that BB, seat and cockpit in their proper locations in space s very difficult! You could make a stand for the BB and put the seat and handlebars on tables, but that's all going to h*** when you try to get on the seat!

Beyond that, the frame on a trainer matters very little. Correct dropout spacing for the rear wheel. A WB cage might be nice. Now there is that important few inches of matter between the ears. A better frame might make a difference there and that could influence the electrical signals from brain to leg muscles and hence the quality of the workout.

I use an old Schwinn continental on my cycle ops trainer. I made a front fork stand out of some steel tubing to give it additional stability and to take up less room in the exercise room. With your Kicker you wouldn't need any wheels.

Not sure about you but I don't shift much on the trainer, so gears really aren't that super important. This is with a cycle ops fluid trainer so maybe the kicker is different.

would echo what was said earlier about wanting a good fit to make sure you keep a good motion and avoid any type of repetitive stress issues.

I’d bet that this has been discussed numerous times in the Correct forum.

Ever go to a gym for a spin class?

I'd say the saddle is the only thing important. Everything else doesn't matter as long as you can make it fit

Saddle and frame size are really the only important considerations. Drive train doesn't matter, so any entry level bike is fine.
My personal preference is to have the stem/handlebars somewhat higher than on an outside bike.
Zero need to ride the drops inside.

In my opinion metal frames are better on trainers than carbon fiber ones due to unexpected stress risers from fixing the rear triangle of the frame to the trainer.

Appreciate the thoughts. I ask because I ride a 56cm top tube in both endurance and racing geometry bikes, and someone locally is selling a Scattante 56cm bike for $550. It has bad wheels and a Deore groupset (WTH?), but I have a 2x10 Ultegra groupset sitting doing nothing, and I could slap it on there. The Scattante frame is carbon with steel forks, but I thought "so what?"

Not sure if I am ready to believe the drivetrain isn't that important, but again: if I have what I need already, so what?

Should I get that frame for $550? Buy one off eBay for less? I'm like Belichick, I like things that can serve more than one purpose so at least the Scattante could be an 'emergency road bike?'

Versatility is good, as the coach knows. But that sounds like too much to pay for the frame, so I wouldn’t. I’d wait and find a “worse” frame to pair with your Ultegra set that’s lying fallow, and not pay for the wheels and groupset that you don’t need.

What if I can get them down to 450? Also: it has a decent saddle (Fizik).

If you already have a groupset, I'd suggest just try to find a basic frameset for $200-$250. Aluminum, steel, carbon, doesn't really matter as long as you can adjust it to fit like your other bikes.

If you have a better group set use it! But the reason I say on the trainer that the group set doesn’t matter much is as you move up in group sets you’re mostly paying for lighter components, which doesn’t matter, slightly more refined shifting action especially under duress and cross chaining protection, none of these matter too much on a trainer either. The actual shifting action is very good across all the groups.

Your Wahoo can be set up to optimize the resistance to minimize shifting or even put in erg mode where you don’t need shift at all during a training session. Therefore amount of shifting you do indoors can be much less than outside, and if you’re racing you want to set it up so you do very little shifting with trainer difficulty set to 30-40%.

I have zero experience on a trainer - but thought that shifting action would matter more? I'm not racing; I intend to Zwift (alone, not against others) as part of an off-season exercise program.

$200 for a frameset sounds optimistic but again I have minimal experience buying them off eBay.

What I think I'm taking away is the overall tenor that when putting a bike on a trainer, it's easier to build up to what's effective.

A frame can make a difference, actually. The Kickr is a static trainer, so if you ride for more than an hour, any amount of frame compliance (including seatpost and front end) is going to be noticeably more comfortable. If you buy a cheap used frameset it might come with no features to add compliance, opting to rely on the tires, which you won't be using in your application.

You can find compliance elsewhere, of course. A good carbon seatpost or a rocker plate (none of the latter are advisable if you use the Kickr Climb, though). Wahoo also has new feet that are supposed to provide some more give, though DC Rainmaker evaluated them as part of the latest gen Kickr and didn't notice them making any difference when he was already using a trainer mat.

For some reason the use of a trainer is not appreciated by all here. Ok to each his own.


I started riding a fluid trainer similar to the Wahoo in question, I started using it last November using Zwift. I personally have nothing but good things to say about both the trainer and Zwift because this time last year I totally sucked on the hills, today I only suck a little. Last year a 60 mile ride on flats on the road was a full day and required half a week to recover, this year 80 miles on a MUP riding a hybrid is fun and games.


Now to my point based on riding on a trainer/Zwift 3200 miles and 285,000 feet of ascent (about 10 full days of riding 24/7) from November 13, 2019 to May 15, 2020. The bike will mount by the back wheel axle to the trainer and will be solid as a rock. I mean there is literally no movement of the frame at all. There is good and there is bad about this in my judgement. The good is if you put in the time like I did you will get tough. The bad is getting to this tough is quite painful.


You have picked out a good smart trainer. Regardless of the frame and components, it will be uncomfortable on a long workout. Yes try to get the bike fit as close as possible to your outside ride. Since it is a wheel-on trainer you will want at the minimum a street tire, I use a tire made specific for wheel-on trainers. They are quieter and don't shed rubber dust. I have a dedicated trainer rear wheel for that purpose.


Over the summer I spent most of my bike efforts outside. This week because of time and weather I rode over 100 trainer/Zwift miles including a run up the Alpe. It brought back memories of the pain due to the bike having no give when you pedal.


So, as I intend to transition slowly back to the trainer within the next month or so I'm in the planning stages of building a "rocker plate". There are facebooks, youtubes and web forums on this very topic. You can buy them or make them but what they do is allow a bit of semi-realistic bike/trainer movement. I'm told that this greatly reduces the pain and suffering of riding a trainer. Look on youtube at the 2020 virtual TdF. You will see the pros riding trainers with rocker plates, I don't recall seeing any pro during that time not using a rocker plate, maybe i missed some? Some rocker plates only mount the trainer but others are big enough to include the front tire and a Wahoo climb if you have one. May not be the best idea but no reason it shouldn't work. Personally I don't have a climb or intend to get one but I'm making a rocker plate sometime within the next month.


Rocker Plate. Buy or build one this is way more important than what groupo your have or what material your training bike is made of. With Zwift, which feeds back to the trainer, I find that I shift gears quite a bit actually. The above mentioned Alpe is 8 miles with average 8 to 14 % grades you bet I shift on that course. I would like to meet the person that doesn't shift on that course.

By the way when I ride my trainer, I use two fans, one fore, one aft. Even so two hours on a trainer and I'm not one that sweats much, but after 2 hours I need to change. The good thing about Zwift and I'm not a salesmen for the company but it makes the training tolerable. Yes the graphics are computer generated but you get the advantage of using a power meter and I use an HRM, and the course feedback on the hills. There are many training modes and group rides, races and incentives to train. For $15/month it is a great service. I use my iphone to run the companion app, a laptop to run the program and the audio and video goes through a 54"flat screen and sound system. You can chat with other riders via voice using discord or send text messages through the companion app. I don't get home from work until 6:30 PM (I leave at 5:30 AM) so without a trainer I could only ride on the weekends when the days are short in winter. With the trainer I'm on the bike 6 days a week sometimes 7.

The frame is carbon, but the forks are steel.

I can't stop thinking about how crazy this is. I hope it's real.

Isn't the Wahoo Kickr a direct-drive trainer? No rear wheel?

Sure shifting action/speed matters, but old Tiagra 9sp or even Microshift road shofters are able to shift quickly.

My trainer bike is an old late 80s road frame with a 9sp drivetrain that is a mix of Tiagra and 105 with a crank from the 80s, and modern wheels.
The contact points are the same as all my other bikes.

Use something really nice or use something entry level- it doesnt much matter.
The only thing to care about is if there is friction in the drivetrain or wheel.


And when it comes to shifting, I use maybe half the cassette and I think i used the small chainring back in 2017. It just isnt vital to have an outdoor setup on a spin bike. They arent the same, no matter what some think. No wind, no gravity, no coasting = not the same and so the bike setup doesn't need to be the same.

Depends on what word comes after Kickr

Kickr Core. So: direct-drive.

Yes, the frame is carbon and a steel fork. It is real. Also, your couplet rhymes like you are Illmatic.

Thomas15 thanks. I ... just don't like riding with others, so I imagine I will opt for always-solo rides. I have a spare big-screen TV and computer, so I'm just setting it all up in the garage. I hope to run Spotify while Zwifting and just get into a groove.

I'm appreciative of all the thoughts. Maybe I ought to just use my Roubaix? It sure is compliant, and I prefer the Giant on the roads, anyways. And I'm not SO lazy that I can't just take it on and off the trainer.

Oddly, the most challenging part of the project is deciding on the last two loads of garage crap to go to the dump

I know exactly what you mean. About a month ago I filled up a dumpster with stuff from my garage and could actually fill up another and just might do it.

For me personally I work full time although I'm retirement age. I put in long days, as previously mentioned I leave home at 5:30AM don't get home until 6:00PM or so. Having a dedicated bike on the trainer is a real convenience for me. I spend enough time fooling around getting ready for a ride so mounting a bike on the trainer and calibrating it just adds to the time.

With Zwift there is a whole bunch of teams and clubs with facebooks and I understand you don't want to ride socially but riding with a group is good to keep you motivated during the ride especally if you pick a ride or race and sign up with a group slightly above your classification. It will really help to push yourself if that is what you want. Having said that many times I go it alone, for example I did my 39th ride on the route titled "Road to Sky" on Sunday solo. This route takes you up the Alpe du Zwift. I still see other riders on the course but I'm not associated with them in any way.

- Frame material doesn't matter
- Weight doesn't matter
- Wheels do not matter
- Fit matters: Replicate as close as possible
- Drivetrain: Replicate gear ratio as close as possible, ie. My outside bikes are 11 speed, my trainer bike is 9 speed...but I ride smart power rollers so I'm not dealing with matching a cassette. As far as brand, if you can keep them the same, ie. Shimano to Shimano, Campag to Campag, SRAM to SRAM that would be good, but not entirely necessary. Level of groupset...ie. Ultegra, DA, etc.. doesn't matter as long as you are happy with the shifting.

JMO

Through the miracle of technology if you turn on erg mode in Zwift then the resistance sent to your trainer will be the same if you’re on a pretend flat or pretend hill so you’ll stay at the same power and therefore stay in the same gear for your entire ride.