Truing a wheel?
 

I just bough a 1986 Schwinn prelude in great shape except for the rear wheel is a bit wobbly. I could take it to the LBS to have them true it for 25 bucks OR I saw on craigslist a wheel truing stand for 30 OBO. I was wondering if this is something I could realistically do. I am thinking I could get the truing stand and a spoke wrench for about the same price as having the bike shop do it and then I will be set forever. I just don't know the first thing about truing a wheel. Ive built wheels before but always sent them out to be trued because I was intimidated. I do most work myself, but I am not sure about this. Any advice?

It's a simple task. Patience is required. And a quality spoke wrench. I keep old forks to use in lieu of a truing stand, but for $30, go for it.

The Preludes are nice bikes. I have an '87.

Trueing stands make access a bit easier, but doesn't really limit quality of work until you get into dial gauges territory.
Many a wheel has been built or trued to satisfaction in the fork/frame.

Go for it. You won't learn if you don't do it.

I'm not sure of the best resource but I used to rely on the LBS to true my wheels and have to drop off/pick it up. Now I build my own wheels and true them as needed. Haven't had to go anywhere for my maintenance in ages.

yep... decent truing stands just make the minor truings easier... just use the brake pads or a punch held against the fork/chain stays as a gauge of out-of true.

with some practice, the results will be the same as with a cheap truing stand.... more possibly BETTER, since cheap truing stands suck, and FLEX quite a bit!

The issue I have with trying to true a wheel while it's mounted IN the frame is access to the nipples. Good truing stands will give you access to the spoke nipple directly adjacent to where you are measuring. When in a frame though, it's hard to turn the spoke when it's right next to the stay where you are measuring, so you turn the wheel out so the spoke is more easily accessible, but that introduces some inaccuracy.

I'd prefer a cheap stand to truing in a frame any day.

But yeah, OP, buy the truing stand and learn how to true.

Okay I think i'm gonna do it. Ad says 30 obo. Here is a pic of the stand. Made by Minoura. I don't know what a quality vs cheap stand looks like, or if its all there.. This one looks pretty old but I'm sure it still could do the job. Most of my wheels are 27 or 700, some are 26. Would this work for all those?

https://images.craigslist.org/00p0p_...4_1200x900.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00e0e_...h_1200x900.jpg

that's actually a pretty good deal! that is a nice truing stand...!

you'll need to flip the wheel every now and then to check wheel dish/centering, but... NICE STAND!

get it!

Be aware that the rim being wobbly is not always a matter of spoke adjustment. If you find that truing results in some spokes extra tight and others loose then the task is no longer so simple, as the rim is bent, and the spokes merely hold the rim in place - they don't straighten it.

I hope the rim is not bent. A big selling point on this bike for me was the SS spokes.

I bought the stand and cleaned it up. It's a little bent. It doesn't lay flat. The thing in the middle that holds the lateral runout things seems a little bent too. Is it still functional as a stand?

That was the first stand design I bought. It's a poor design, but it's adequate. As it sits it is functional.

Took off the rear wheel and attempted to true it up. After reading up it seemed pretty easy, but I still managed to kinda mess it up. Was going well, until I had to tension one spoke so tight that is broke the little metal thing it was seated in, not sure what those are called. It's still just as wobbly as before. I can't tell, but I am starting to think the rim is bent.

I think I might take it all apart and see. I don't have much to lose.

Truing a wheel really is a balance of science and art. Cliche , but true.

Hopefully your attempt will bear future fruit. I have reaped many rewards from gaining skill as a wheel builder and truer. Sometimes I'll take a wheel on a bike I'm fixing up, put it in the stand loosen a few, tighten a few and done in two minutes. I'm a long way from my first attempts.

Lots of extra time was spent when learning because I wouldn't turn the nipple the correct way. A bad rim is not a good subject for a neophyte truer. If you break down that wheel and the rim has a wobble in it when you unlace it, I recommend a new rim. Experienced wheel builders might be able to do something with it, I don't mess with wobbly rims. New straight ones are much easier to deal with.

Just want to add my two pence worth to the OP. When dealing with older wheels, it's good practice to drop one or two drops of oil/chain lube or similar into the spoke nipples. Leave a few hours, then turning the nipples will be a lot easier. If you find that the spoke nipples are too tight to start with, back them all off the same amount, a quarter to a half turn. Then bring them up to tension again as you are going through the truing process.

As for spoke tension, without a tension meter and/or experience, it's quite difficult to tell if the spoke tension is in the correct ballpark. There are calculators online where you measure the spoke length and size and it will give you the tension via a musical note. You can then use this musical note to 'pluck' the spokes and get them all up around the same tension. Another way to find out if the tension is off is the first time your ride the wheels. If they feel soft and spongy, you need more tension, if they feel harsh and bumpy and/or if you're breaking spokes, then they're too high a tension.

I'm no master wheelbuilder, but these are my own experiences.

1. Apparently you did not take my observation to heart...
To keep going when it's obvious that the rim is bent does no good, and ended up doing harm.

2. If you "read up on it" then you would know that the spoke screws into a nipple.

3. You will waste some time, as the rim must be bent if you had to way overtighten a spoke, and it's unlikely you will be able to manually straighten it, given your experience with truing.

4. There is no art in building or truing a wheel, unless one is appreciating the geometry and structure. It's a blend of physics and logic/reason.

Your best course of action at this point would be to purchase a replacement wheel, rather than pursuing the complexity, time and cost of rebuilding.

That is a common error. When I taught mechanics and consumers about wheel truing I told them to first identify the area that needed truing, hold onto the center of the area, and then rotate the wheel such that they would be looking from there toward the hub. That way it's always righty-tighty, lefty loosey.

When learning to true wheels and when frustration was getting the best of me, I found taking a break and brewing up a cup of tea was a big help. Thus the main piece of advice is "patience grasshopper, patience".

1.) I don't take anything from random pretentious dudes on the internet to heart. And it wasn't obvious the rim was bent. After taking out all the spokes and laying the rim flat it is only bent out a mm or two.

2.) Lol no, not the nipple. The thing the nipple seats in on the rim. Like a brass cup thing. I know what a nipple is.

3.) Yeah this is my fist time truing a wheel, so the time isn't wasted, its called practice.

4.) Agree to disagree "Professor. Wheel-builder."

Yeah... thanks. :rolleyes:

After taking out the spokes and laying the rim on a flat surface it's only bent out laterally a mm or two. Is this really enough to call the rim bent?

1. When you post to a forum on the Internet you will receive answers from "dudes" on the Internet. You can reduce the randomness here by checking the poster's profile and past posts. As for pretentious, I'm not pretending to be anyone or trying to impress anyone. Perhaps obvious was too strong a word, but: "If you find that truing results in some spokes extra tight and others loose ... the rim is bent" is pretty straightforward. The rim could easily be both bent sideways and out of round (especially flat in one area) as well. The damage caused by overtensioning in an attempt to get the wheel more true is more than enough evidence that the rim is not acceptable as is.

2. If you know what a nipple is then you know that it is the nipple, not the spoke, that is seated in the grommet that reinforces the hole on the rim, which is what led to my confusion.

3. I was referring to taking apart the wheel being a waste of time, as it's already known the rim is bent. I'll concede that it was an opinion - something that you will often see on a forum.

4. Snideness noted, but as I have taught wheel building the title could be considered accurate. You're more than welcome to explain what part of wheel building or truing is an "art," given that machines routinely do it, and that I have taught non-artistic persons as young as 13 years old to build a perfectly useable wheel on the first try.

Having resuscitated many old bikes, I've dealt with less than perfect wheels and rims. From my perspective, there's bent and then there's bent. What matters is how localized the bend is. If there's no sharp bend, but only a gradual departure from flatness, then the rim can be salvaged. I would also look at whether the rim is round, perhaps by laying it up against a known-good wheel. Just my own personal aesthetic: A wheel with a localized flat spot is a shame and horror, that I don't know how to correct.

Sharp bends are hard to correct. Gentle non-straightness can be worked out, and you could get back to a wheel that is not perfectly true, but runs well enough to have reliable braking. In case perfect truth is not your goal, then good enough truth with reasonably uniform tension is a workable compromise. This is a case where an amateur could do the job to their own satisfaction, but a pro would probably refuse the work. There's nothing worse than getting to the point of no return in a repair job and having to tell the customer that it's hopeless.

Someone here should be able to tell you how to deal with the grommet.

Bikeman , I should have slept on it because going back and reading my response, I was a little snarky. Just when you put "things" in "quotes" and bullet out my post point by point and suggest that I'm too naive to even try truing a wheel is a little insulting. You probably did not mean it that way though.

Yes a grommet. You are right I meant to say the nipple was seated in it. I didn't know what that was called. It wasn't in the admittedly space tutorial I found online. I broke two of those. The wheel is over 30 years old.

Laying it on a completely flat surface, the rim is twisted about a cm. It's not sharply bent anywhere though.

I've NEVER trued a wheel before. Ive put together bike and motorcycle wheels, but always outsourced for truing. I am intimidated. Just looking for advice.

As far as art, if you look at it black and white yeah its just logic and physics. But before digital tension meters, I've heard of people tuning to the musical note of the spoke. That, to me is artistic. And trying to repair something old, instead of replacing it is artistic to me too. Like pounding out sheet metal for a car. But it's all subjective, so I'll stop lol.

I'm not a pro, but I'd think a cm is a lot of warp to true out. If the wheel were completely apart, I'd try to press it flat onto a table, by hand. I think if it can't be pressed flat with gentle hand pressure, then trying to true it straight with the spokes will be a daunting experience.

And while I've worked on less than perfect rims, the first time I built a wheel on a brand new rim, it was suddenly a lot easier and the instructions at websites began to make a lot more sense. So if the rim is a goner, the Sum CR18 is in my opinion a very nice general purpose rim that's not too expensive. Dan's Comp sells stainless spokes with nipples for as little as 25 cents each. Though I said that one can work with an imperfect rim, I'll bet that your best experience (re)building a wheel for the first time would be with new materials.

I rebuilt the wheels on my 1982 Schwinn.

We probably both spoke with a bit too much haste and too little regard. A cm is way out of true. Yes, it's possible to bend it back if the bend is symmetrical (U shaped, rather than an S) but it takes skill and luck to do it well, and even then it's unlikely you will achieve a very stable wheel. I still would advise a new wheel complete.

Yeah, I'm thinking I might have to go that route. Complete wheels are actually pretty cheap.