Wheel size dilemma, road & gravel.
 

OK, so if this is in the wrong place...please move it mods.

So, the story, I'm buying a "do everything my trail bike & fat bike can't do" bike.

It will be my:
-Fun around town bike. (pub crawls)
-Leisure rides with the wife. combination of paved paths & crushed gravel trails (usually 10-15 miles)
-Commuter a couple time a week. (about 20 miles round trip)
-Gravel rides a few times a month. (about 30 miles)

I have a budget, and I've decided on a bike(s)...it checks most of my boxes, and based on the reviews I've read, it'll do fine with my needs....The biggest problem with the reviews is that pretty much all of them review the bike in a "gravel/off road" setting exclusively, with very little mention of how they perform on paved paths & roads (somewhere I'll be spending a considerable amount of time)....I'm hoping I can get someone to chime in that uses 650B tires, and spends some time in the saddle, on the road.

The bike is the Salsa Journeyman drop bar (Sora level)

https://salsacycles.com/bikes/journeyman_650b/journeyman_sora_650

https://salsacycles.com/bikes/journe...eyman_sora_700

So, I guess the question is....will there be a noticeable difference between those 2 wheel sizes? Tire brand/type isn't a big deal, as I'll likely be changing that....I'm more interested in the speed on the road...will the 700c wheels really be much faster on the road?

Id prefer the 650b for a little more "squish" when off road (rims are slightly wider, and can accommodate a wider tire), but I don't want to sacrifice too much speed on the road.

And before anyone suggests the obvious....a second wheelset is not in the budget at the moment, but could be considered "down the road".

Thoughts?

Thanks!

I haven't used a 650b wheeled bicycle yet but, would suggest researching this as Road Plus, rather than Gravel Bike. Unfortunately, for some unknown reason, Bikeforums doesn't dedicate anything to this genre. Or you could post in the Cyclocross/Gravelbike forum, here and see what kind of response you get.

Go with 700cc or 29er...They are the best size for road and gravel and for trail riding....They also have the widest selection of different tires....700x 42-45 is a perfect size for a mixture of pavement and off road.

If you get the 700c, you can also get a set of 650 wheels. 😁

Really though, the 700 will be fine and you'll have a better selection of tires.

I'm curious about the 29er. Is it merely putting a large tire on a 700c wheel, the same idea as the 650b is putting a large tire on a 27.5" wheel?

Yes they both have exactly the same diameter.

Probably a little bit. Given the stock tires, I think 700c x 37 Riddlers will be faster than 650b x 2.1 Nanos.

But if you get fast tires for the 650b (WTB Horizon or Rene Herse Switchback Hill) it will be faster until you get to higher speeds and the aero penalty of the fatter tire kicks in.

I'd get the 650b version and get fast tires. The increased comfort of the 10mm fatter tire will be noticeable, and the performance penalty will be tiny, if any.

650b and 27.5" are the same thing, just 2 different names.

For 60+ miles of commuting in every week I'd get the curly handlebar 700. Big knobby tires would be a drag. For all the other listed purposes I'd want the flat bar 650.

I also really wish the Apex 1 build had hydraulic brakes and that there was a similar 1x flat bar, those would be prime for me. Diamondback had a Haanjo built like that in 2017 and I almost got it but I bought a MTB instead.

Pay close attention on Salsa's website right now, because they are updating. Some of the models listed are 2019 and are a little different and their colors are changing. It looks like the carbon fork flat bar Sora build is going away.

I recommend going with 700c wheels because it sounds like you will be spending a fair amount of time on pavement. I have 650b and 700c wheels for my "gravel bike", and the 650b x 50mm tires feel too sluggish on the road. I prefer running 700c x 40mm tires. They feel ok on pavement and can also handle hard packed gravel/dirt. Some of this may come down to the specific tire you're using, but I don't think you'll regret going with 700c.

BassistBiker I have commuted on a Salsa Journeyman 650b since august of last year. I immediately replaced the tires with WTB Byways and they have been great for commuting and gravel rides. I did unpaved on them as well. They were perfect. I feel that my bike is slower because of the adventure crankset 46\30 vs my old commuter a cyclocross with Gatorskins but 50/34 chainrings. It may be a touch slower but much more comfortable for longer rides. I have enjoyed the lower gearing because it keeps the legs from feeling as fried at the end of the week.

650B x "the wider the better" IMO

You'll thank me later.

Ah, what a question...

its really more of a question of how wide a tire do you want?
I have some 32mm tires that are some of the fastest made and are a ball on my commute.
I have some 60mm tires that are also some of the fastest made, and they are super cush, roll fast, feel slower (i.e. more comfortable). I

I like the cush in rides that are <15mph, the responsiveness of the 32mm tire in rides over 15mph (yeah, there is some overlap).

In race type condtions, the 32mm tire spins up faster and probably is more aero and has a higher top speed. Usually not a big deal when commuting though.

The point of 650b (i.e. 27.5) is to get a wider tire with the same diameter as a 700c (i.e. 29" tire). Certainly there is a more limited choice of slick 650b tires compared to 700c, but there are some good options out there.

(tires: 60mm x 650b Schwalbe slick, 32mm x 700c Conti slick).

I have 650b x 38mm tires (Paris-Moto) that are great. I would like to try even wider, but this is pushing my bike's limit. But it is a matter of taste.

Wheel size, if you avoid the extremes and separate out the other factors, makes approximately zero difference.

That said, for a smaller rider, 29" wheels are extreme. I just don't see the point of such large wheels.

Now as for the other factors I mention, the big ones are "what tires are available" and "what rims are available.". These days the selection in both 650b and 700c is excellent, so there is really no big reason for a reasonably tall person to prefer one size over the other. Five years ago I had misgivings about riding 650b wheels too far from civilization, but the size is so common now I wouldn't worry about it.

I've been riding a Rawland xSogn lately. 650b x 48 tires, drop bar, steel frame, disc brakes, 1x11 drive. In the last couple months I've ridden it to the station every day, and a couple 125 mile recreational rides. Almost all my riding is on paved surfaces.

I don't know if this is factually true, wheel sizes drive the size of tires you can run which make a huge difference. Tire width and diameter make a huge difference the the determinant of your tire width and diameter is driven by your wheel width and diameter. Sounds like your riding experience is pretty narrow so maybe doesn't make that big of a difference to you....

​​​​​​Right. 700c is a better wheel size than 27" because you can get a wide variety of tires for 700c rims, whereas the selection in 27" is very limited. 700c rims are better for that reason alone. The
4 mm difference in rim radius, by itself, makes no difference at all.

By the same logic, 650b is better than 650a.

But that logic does not extend to the choice between 650b and 700c; you can get excellent tires in either size.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your sentence.

Well, this is the commuting forum, so I'm mainly basing my remarks on my experience commuting. My long distance riding is off topic, but I mention it anyway since there was some question about the versatility of the 650b wheel size.
OP asked:
Right, that's me.

The 700C model comes with 37mm tires, which is generally cushy enough for me.

But a Journeyman on RH Switchback Hill tires (650B) would be a delight. :love:

Not.... cushy..... enough......

LOL

Currenly running 29x3.0 (700x76C or 76x622) tires - more traction than I know what to do with!!!

It does make a difference. In this case, a 650b wheel will allow a tire 10mm fatter than a 700c wheel. The difference will be noticable.

Right. So, what I meant, when I said, "if you separate out other factors," was that we're talking about wheel size and only wheel size. What you mean, when you say "in this case," is that you're adding another factor back into the equation, namely a bike frame and how much clearance it has. This is, of course, relevant. But now we're talking about more than just the wheel size.

Fair enough. I am talking about more than just the wheel size.

BassistBiker, I have been studying the Salsa website lately, searching for the best gravel touring bike, for a couple weeks.

The Journeyman frame, according to some Q/A page, is exactly the same for the 700c and 650b versions. My advice is based on your height. Close to 5 ft 6 inches, get the 650b. Closer to 6ft, get the 29er. Get a second wheel set later for the other size.

https://www.raleighusa.com/redux2-r143
1 by 9 speed
fat road tires 650b x 47


That's one of my bikes. I do 20 miles on it all the time. On flats no wind I am about 16/18 mph ish. I can hit 20mph but I can't stay there for long. Might be more the rider than the bike. I have done 50 miles on it thought it was fine.

How fast do you need to go? Do you plan to to keep up with your buddies in spandex on road bikes? The bike feels plenty fast for me. I know I would get dropped hard if I tried to keep up with spandex guy on 23 tire road bike.

I bought, at a really good price, a used hybrid bike a year or so ago with the plan of scrapping most of the original components and replacing with gravel-type upgrades. I really, really wanted to put 650B wheels on it to take advantage of wider tires, but alas the position of the v-brake studs made it too much of a challenge. The 700c wheels fitted Gravel King SKs is still pretty nice.

I think that either configuration will make you happy; however I would opt for the 650b. Are you in a position to ride both configurations? That would count more than any of our opinions.