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-   -   The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1105191)

caloso 05-25-17 10:47 PM


Originally Posted by carpediemracing (Post 19610758)
First thought is that I bet he'd do well with a massive leadout. You go at least 35 mph, he stays on your wheel, and you go as far as you can to the line. If you can go faster that's better. You start sort of early - I know you can go about 600 meters, realistically. The deal is you need to create some separation, either by sheer speed (like into a crosswind and you and your teammate are in the gutter), by a rider blowing up, a corner you two hit particularly fast, whatever. Then it's down to 2 or 3 riders and your teammate will podium.

I'd try to set up for a counter for him. Meaning you launch a lot, at some point he counter launches.

Also it would really, really, really help if your teammate did ZERO work until he went. Like ZERO work. Avg wattage under 200w and hopefully under 180w for example, until whatever to go, like 5 to go or something. Then when he went it'd be a stunner.

He also needs to work on top speed in a 60 second effort. Not sprint top speed, more like "how fast can you roll a 53x12 seated?" top speed. If he can hold 35 mph for a bit then that's enough, most sprints won't go much faster and if he has a gap then 35 mph would probably win him a race handily.

I think of the 2015 Aetna NSS "sprint". I barely exceeded 900w max once in the last 30s of the race and won by a couple seconds. My efforts were 900w peak, 800w peak, 700w peak, 600w peak, and 500w peak. Absolutely within the realm of any normal rider out there. My sprint was absolutely pathetic. Key was the distraction in second wheel, appropriately initialed "KO". KO jumped way early, drew me out, then kept going fast enough so everyone waited for him to do something. By the time everyone realized they had to go it was too late.

If you could be KO for your teammate then you could lead him out of the group (or the front) then let him ease away in the last whatever 400 meters as he goes a steady 35 mph and you're going 32 then 30 then 29 whatever.

I bet if he did zero in the race he could place well in any tough sprint with just a normal leadout. There are a lot of guys too afraid to put it on the line for one effort so they're constantly attacking or chasing or closing gaps or whatever, and by the time the sprint rolls around they're cooked.

Oh boy, I recognize that guy.


(c'est moi)

aaronmcd 05-25-17 11:55 PM


Originally Posted by Flatballer (Post 19610784)
Well, you have to be out a few years just to sit for it anyway. So basically everyone has to study their ass off for a while. I think I studied like 10 hours a week for 6 months or something.

Wow that's like the level of studying I saw on engineering forums! Everyone I know in person said it's a breeze and don't worry. I ended up cracking books and practice exams a couple months in advance, but really only doubled down a few weeks before the first test. That seems to have been the right amount cuz they were tough, but manageable and I was pretty sure I passed. Still relieved now that I got the results though!
And I'm like 5 years out of school or so. I could do it on one year plus my masters degree, but all my previous jobs sucked and I was really only comfortable getting recommendations from my current job. I got one from my last boss, but he messed up the sealed envelope thing TWICE and I just sent a letter with my application basically explaining and apologizing for my dumbass reference lol.

Ttoc6 05-26-17 01:01 AM


Originally Posted by gerundium (Post 19610084)
I know a lot of you guys in here frequently race twice in a day. Any recovery tips for a two stage race day with ~ 3 hours in between events? It's a TTT first (10 km) and a crit (~30 km) after if that has any relevance.

The old adage applies. Don't stand if you can sit and don't sit if you can lay down. I also find I do better in stage racse if I get both a good warmup and a good cooldown for each stage. The cooldown I've found is key. shake the legs out. Usually I like to hop on the roller for 10 minutes or so. I pretty much always call someone(usually one of my parents) or talk to someone (a teammate that isn't cooling down and is changing or something) right after the stage to kinda debrief how it went. I use this time on the rollers to do this.

Another thing is timing your meals correctly between races. Make sure you eat at the right time so you're not too bloated for the crit. Evening crits I struggle with because I usually just want to sleep but I need to go get food to burn off the buzz that I've got from doing the race.

mattm 05-26-17 01:43 AM


Originally Posted by aaronmcd (Post 19610662)
Got notification today that I passed the PE national exam and both California civil exams

Well done!

Come race Folsom tomorrow/Saturday to celebrate!

mike868y 05-26-17 03:26 AM


Originally Posted by carpediemracing (Post 19610758)
There are a lot of guys too afraid to put it on the line for one effort so they're constantly attacking or chasing or closing gaps or whatever, and by the time the sprint rolls around they're cooked.

hi cdr

revchuck 05-26-17 03:36 AM

Congrats, @aaronmcd!

Flatballer 05-26-17 05:46 AM


Originally Posted by aaronmcd (Post 19611035)
Wow that's like the level of studying I saw on engineering forums! Everyone I know in person said it's a breeze and don't worry. I ended up cracking books and practice exams a couple months in advance, but really only doubled down a few weeks before the first test. That seems to have been the right amount cuz they were tough, but manageable and I was pretty sure I passed. Still relieved now that I got the results though!
And I'm like 5 years out of school or so. I could do it on one year plus my masters degree, but all my previous jobs sucked and I was really only comfortable getting recommendations from my current job. I got one from my last boss, but he messed up the sealed envelope thing TWICE and I just sent a letter with my application basically explaining and apologizing for my dumbass reference lol.

It probably depends a lot on the discipline and how much breadth there is to cover. The electrical power one covers a lot of ground, and not much of it was what I did day to day at work.

topflightpro 05-26-17 06:11 AM

I'm working from home today, and I turned on the TV for some background noise. Law & Order SVU is on USA. This episode is about runaway teenage boys who are lured into some underground pedophilia ring.

I decided to put on Charmed on TNT.

Ygduf 05-26-17 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by globecanvas (Post 19608685)
Nation,

If a race is all together at the finish, what's the best way to help out a teammate who has no sprint? All I can think of is to get on the front for the last 3-5 minutes or so and try to drill it all the way to the finish. A sprinter will still win but at least that will weed out the tired sprinters and minimize the number of non-sprinters who pass him. Or maybe try to slingshot him off the front with 1-2k to go? Except that seems just as likely to do nothing useful, if he can't get separation from the field (see the part where he has no sprint, above). ???

as the dude with no sprint, not much can be done. If it's that late in the race it's probably over. Otherwise get about 3 wheels behind him and tell him to drill it with 1k to go and as the field strings out you slowly let the gap grow. And I mean slow. You need to keep the gap plausible that you will reconnect long enough that the guys behind you start to feel the effort so that as the gap grows and they realize that you aren't going to reconnect they are fatigued and will wait for someone else to go around.


He'll get 3rd, but opening gaps very near behind him and hoping he has the feel to know when to commit an effort to solidify a break at the right time is about all you can do. If you string it out via an attack or a lead out, the sprinters are used to that. That situation is what they are good at. Not what your teammate is good at.

aaronmcd 05-26-17 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by mattm (Post 19611094)
Well done!

Come race Folsom tomorrow/Saturday to celebrate!

Ok. Considering skipping the 2/3 race.. it would be nice to not be tired for a 1/2 crit for once. But OTOH if I race 2/3 first I'll have an excuse for being slow.

mattm 05-26-17 12:08 PM


Originally Posted by aaronmcd (Post 19611989)
Ok. Considering skipping the 2/3 race.. it would be nice to not be tired for a 1/2 crit for once. But OTOH if I race 2/3 first I'll have an excuse for being slow.

Either way I hope you make it out! Get some points in the 2/3's race.

globecanvas 05-26-17 01:27 PM

Congrats @aaronmcd! Must be a weight off your mind.

Thanks nation for the advice on the sprintless teammate (yes TKP it is who you think). It does seem like anything I could do would be as likely or more likely to help someone else than him, so I guess it's just on him to be a better finisher if he can't make a break stick.

globecanvas 05-26-17 01:31 PM

For stupid reasons a planned 2 hour ride turned into 4.5 with no food or phone and not enough water. I filled bottles at a roadside spring so if I get giardia and die it was nice knowing everybody.

scheibo 05-26-17 02:50 PM

rode the TT bike this morning and for the first time ever the TSS aligned with my perceived effort! on all my other rides my power had been way off what my HR indicated ("TRIMP"), so I adjusted the TSS after the fact to account for a lower FTP in the TT position which 'fixed' the issue (or at least made it so I didn't stop riding the TT bike because it ruined my CTL). i don't think my TT power is actually now in line with my road power, but i think its at least getting closer to the point where i dont feel like im being completely robbed.

frustratingly, despite carbon paste and plenty of wrenching my sticks are still coming loose which is really worrisome to discover when humming along at 25 mph. supposedly they can take a torque of 25 Nm, i guess i need to find jumbo crowsfoot adapter or something so this doesnt keep happening.

Ttoc6 05-28-17 11:46 PM

I've been told the second move is easier. I'm not having trouble moving or anything, but by god I've acquired a lot of **** over the last years. Why the hell did I keep schoolwork from High School? And how did I end up with like 20 plain white v-neck undershirts..

The moving company picks up my stuff on Friday of next week. My parent's house is a disaster right now with so much stuff piled up. It's all coming to a close soon, though. Last final, lab report and presentation on Thursday of this week.

TMonk 05-29-17 05:56 PM

Working today due to some failed experiments on Friday. We're attempting to quantify Se in blood using ICP-MS.

The run went to **** for various reasons on Friday, and I'm too busy to tend to the instrument tomorrow for any extended period of time, so I came in today. The results didn't come without a bit of (frustrating) troubleshooting and experimentation on my side, but came they did - and they look great. Low % difference when compared with results from a different analytical lab for validation. Both the PI on the project and the new RA that I have running around prepping samples are going to be stoked tomorrow.

Woohoo!

scheibo 05-29-17 09:20 PM

no racing, but still following the results some interesting stage races this weekend.

1) triathlete-turned-cyclist who's basically won every race he's entered this year (started as a 5) was doing the local stage race this weekend and flatted during the prologue = came DFL. he then proceeded to win the road stage, TT and crit to win the GC overall, against what i would consider pretty decent competition. *smh*. good news is he's now out of the 3's - i'll be curious to see what he can do in a P/1/2 field. i reckon he'll still get some wins.

2) another guy dominated the P1 GC race coming 1st/1st/1st (and by large margins) and then 2nd in the crit to his teammate. it looks like he went solo in the RR from early and shattered the KOM (race starts with an 1h10 climb... only he did it in 1h3). kind of demoralizing, like when phil gaimon came and ruined our local benchmark hill (OLH) by demolishing the KOM. makes everything seem kind of pointless.

3) finally - my runner-friends-turned-low-level-pro-cyclists-despite-doing-only-a-couple-of-beginner-races kind of proved they probably deserve their spots by winning the GC and sprint jersey respectively at KSR this weekend. not a huge race, but theyre obviously not terrible

mike868y 05-30-17 03:31 AM

speaking of triathlete turned bike racer, out local one of those was a 4 at the beginning of the season (maybe a 5?) and got 6th on the road race/3rd in GC in the p12 race at Killington...

carpediemracing 05-30-17 06:54 AM

I'm pretty sure that Mike Englemann, when he first won the Mt Evans hill climb, was not counted because they thought he cheated. He was a Cat 4 but beat the best times by the pros. He was 29 years old and had turned to cycling after some running injuries. Turned pro with Coors Light the following year and became their GC/hilly rider.

In the mid 90s a local duathlete did our 7 mile TT (Weston, CT). Record was 14:15 in ideal conditions, no one had come within 30s of the time. He did a 14:30, we thought he turned around at the first stop sign and not the second, then he did a legit 14:05. And kept doing 14:0x for a few weeks, it wasn't even like he was peaking, he was just doing it. He got something like 7th or 13th at pro nationals.

It's like my sis-in-law's friend who won the women's GSMR a few times. She really can't ride in the field so she rides behind or to the side. Yet she can put multiple minutes into a top level field (she's a 2 now) in a road race. Her first crit win, at Bethel, she asked my brother how to approach the (P1234) race as she didn't have a good sprint. He facetiously told her that she should just break away at the start, lap the field, then the sprint wouldn't be an issue. So the next day she duly broke away at the start, lapped the field, then pulled the field (because afraid of sitting on wheels) for the rest of the race until about 400-500m to go when the field started sprinting for second. All the Cat 1-2 women, including a multiple national champion, were just shocked. "She broke away, lapped us, and then pulled the field for the rest of the race!".

There was a woman that raced around here late 80s mid 90s. Her husband was a strong Cat 2, could sprint or break. She'd train with him and he admitted he simply couldn't hang with her on the longer rides. She was okay in the field in terms of sitting on wheels but was simply not a sprinter. Nevertheless, riding solo for her employer Ski Market, she got 6th in the Liberty Classic (Corestates for women) in a sprint against the best riders in the world (Petra Rossner won). Later, in 2001, she got 9th, the only result I can find online. She did the Stowe RR for training one year, because her husband was doing it. She won the race by 8 minutes.

This is her in the Corestates where she got 6th (#130):
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0...af&oe=59ADE935

Strong engines are always strong engines.

topflightpro 05-30-17 07:15 AM

I had a teammate who was a pro triathlete before taking up cycling only. (When I say pro, I mean he took off three years between finishing med school and starting his residency to only train and race.)

He went from a 5 to a 2 in one season, and during that time, he won pretty much everything off the front. The cat 5s were incredibly frustrated as he would lap the field three or four times in a 30 min. crit. Local officials wouldn't give him an early upgrade because he hadn't proven he could ride in a field. That was a prescient decision.

Once he became a 2, things changed. He couldn't ride away from the fields as easily and the surges in crits killed him. Though his FTP was super high, he could not crack 1000w. Also, it turned out his bike handling skills weren't that great, and he crashed a lot. He always said some other guy did something, but when you crash that frequently, maybe it's not the other guy.

globecanvas 05-30-17 07:18 AM

I know a guy like that. I think there are probably a lot of guys like that. Super strong duathlete/triathlete who wins races off the front but can't ride his bike in a straight line. I've watched him fall over at a stop light.

scheibo 05-30-17 08:10 AM

the one around here is actually the best bike handler in the field (though probably won't be true in P12). he's a bigger guy and his trademark move has been attacking on the last descent, just sitting on his top tube aero AF and getting stupidly large gaps. he tied the tour of california riders KOM on the descent he used to win this weekend. he also has a sprint.

rideaz 05-30-17 03:09 PM

I was a triathlete before bike racing. I don't think I was any worse of a bike handler than any other newbie. I did however get a lot of stick for my wardrobe (I now wear jerseys with sleeves and my socks are considerably longer) :-D

mattm 05-30-17 03:17 PM


Originally Posted by scheibo (Post 19619470)
the one around here is actually the best bike handler in the field (though probably won't be true in P12). he's a bigger guy and his trademark move has been attacking on the last descent, just sitting on his top tube aero AF and getting stupidly large gaps. he tied the tour of california riders KOM on the descent he used to win this weekend. he also has a sprint.

who?

scheibo 05-30-17 03:30 PM

i assume you know how to work RoadResults? :)


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