Red Bike Rides Again; a Centurion Story
 

I took my 1986 Dave Scott Ironman out for rides this weekend, 10-mile and 15-mile close-to-home test runs. This is the first time in years, and the first time since doing some maintenance and updates, and the rear wheel was apart for months.

Ready to ride in the attached picture.

I formulated the update plan, and bought the parts, to address a shifting problem and the fact that I couldn't push a 42-24 low gear up the hills of the SF Peninsula. That was in 2011, and RobbieTunes was kind enough to weigh in: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...date-plan.html

The story of how the bike chose me is also in that post.

I've been re-motivated lately. In part, because I rode with a visiting friend who had moved away, for the first time in many years, and he rented a modern CF + compact + brifter bike. And afterwards, declared it just not that different than the steel bike he had been riding since we rode together in the 90s. And also, because of the https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...challenge.html, to finish a bike/project that has been sitting around and to do it with parts that you already had on hand!

From that plan, I:
+ Took apart, cleaned, and re-packed the rear hub with new ballbearings.
+ Put on the 7-speed freewheel.
+ Put on a mountain derailleur (more later)
+ Swapped out downtube shifters for SunRace units (thanks for all who helped, here: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...p-request.html)
+ Washed the bike well.
+ Lubed front derailleur and brake pivots while stripped down.
+ Adjusted shifters and etc.
+ Buffed the saddle with some boot wax.

Tires, brake pads, and bar tape had been replaced in the 20-noughts, so I thought that those were fine!

The ride was fun! I definitely had a few stand-up-and-crank where I really enjoyed the lively ride, very different than my newer bike. The downtube shifters definitely had me making more decisions as to whether to shift or just power-along, too. Its a more aggressive position, with bars lower than the seat, than I use on my other bike too, but I've been riding enough that it was fine for these shorter rides. Time will tell if it works for longer.

The cockpit photo is an attempt to capture my sight-line when I'm on the hoods; the hub is pretty much hidden by the bars.

From the first ride, I also learned that the seat is too narrow and/or crowned for my comfort. And that the braking is really poor; it feels pretty easy to move the calipers from the levers (tried with wheels out), so I'm going to put on new pads and hope that addresses it.

I'll follow-up with more posts and pictures. I expect to have more ongoing efforts and adjustments, and so I thought the bike deserved its own thread.

More photos
 

A few in-progress photos.

The rear cones and races were perfectly smooth, much to my relief. The brightly polished line could not be felt by fingertip or ballpoint test.

I felt as if the freewheel should screw on to sit closer to the spokes and dork disc, but I was really careful to thread it on properly and get many turns by fingertip before tightening. Not sure there.

At this most-disassembled, chainwheels off. Ooh, forgot to mention the 42-biopace to 39-tooth change to the chainrings.

Partially re-assembled.

Next Steps:

New pads arrived and will go on.

Ride #2 was with a saddle swap, to my second-favorite (and more racy) saddle. Much better!

Also on ride #2 I had a problem in the 39-32 bailout gear. There'd be a chain clunk and the cranks would jerk forward, under load. My understanding is that this happens when the chain starts to climb up onto the teeth, and then drops into place. It did not drop out of the 32-cog when doing this. I'll try re-adjusting limit screws and cable tension, but of course I couldn't tell whether it was climbing to the inside or outside, and it didn't do this on the stand.

My knees felt more strain, and it felt like a rotation limit. I'm not sure whether it was the clipless pedals I was using, or not. They're a pair of Specialized that haven't been on a bike in a while. But also, the 600 crankset seems to have a lower Q factor, not flaring out to where the pedals attach. So what felt like a normal foot position had my heel scraping the crankset. I may flip on the pedals that have been my everyday ones, and see how those feel.

Finally (for tonight), RobbieTunes in my planning thread, and others at various times, have talked about getting wheels tuned and tensioned appropriately for rider weight. Is there anywhere near San Mateo, CA that does such a thing? The last times I got wheels trued, they looked at me like I was crazy when I offered my weight. "We set them to the right tightness." And, in both cases the wheels didn't stay true. I touched up the Ironman wheels well enough to spin without hitting the brakes, but based on what folks have said it sounds worthwhile to get them done properly, if I can.

Dunno about high quality wheel builders in San Mateo, but that's a great looking Ironman. One of my favorite color patterns.

if pads don get you where you want, I am pretty sure i have a set of dual pivot brakes that would not look out of place on that nice ironman in the mess (er carefully curated parts collection) you can have....am in san jose. Being in san jose my go to place for wheels is Tahn at silva cycles https://www.silvacycles.com/.

The 86 IM is Classic. Shifting onto that 32 cog is not going to be as smooth as the others. Find some quiet flat road and shift through the gears while riding and watch what is going on back there. Your first pic shows an add on derailleur hanger while a later one does not??

Even spoke tension is important for durability and, in my mind, ride quality. Adjusting spokes to center the rim without taking into consideration the tension usually makes the tension more uneven. Read up on that. And regarding rider weight and wheel building, I believe heavier riders need stronger rims and more spokes -- not more tension.

oh, here's a picture of mine.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...abf2f64de7.jpg
1986 Ironman

Are you sure you have enough chain clearance for gear #7 at the dropout? It looks very tight.

Derailleur and clearance
 

The rear derailleur is very tight, even with the extra hangar extender. The in progress photo without it was when I realized it wasn't going to clear.

Maybe that is the problem. I think I may have a little more B-screw margin.

Or, maybe move the wheel further back in the dropouts. My reading suggested that would increase clearance, but experimenting (before the hangar extender) didn't seem to really help.

At the current position, I could definitely take out one chain link pair. That would keep the derailleur more extended. I didn't do so because it's a more destructive adjustment, and because I wasn't sure if the wheel was where I wanted it.

I'll do pads, adjust B screw, do H,L barrel of rear derailleur, and try again. If it's glitchy I'll try to watch while riding, as suggested.

Thank you to all for the comments!

Beautiful!

I like that black bar tape with it, and I also like frame pumps.

Eric

My 86, made in 85, which has lost everything which makes it an Ironman is going through a big change.

OP should be careful of mounting a frame pump in that position, esp one with a hard edge like a Zefal. I bought a clone of the OP's bike (red/white '86), and it must've carried a Zefal or similar pump for many years, which caused this:
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0dc4eaa21e.jpg
Maybe a wee bit of old innertube rubber or the like would prevent this.

And +1 on the spoke count reference above. This might be a case for swapping in a set of 36-ers. Someone might even be interested in a trade on the WTB/trade thread.

Kinda stumbled across one earlier this year; initially thought it was going to be a flip but I fell in love. Just took it out yesterday in fact.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...59eaae78_k.jpgUntitled by Eat More Plants1, on Flickr
FWIW I have a brand-new 28t 6-speed on there (brand new chain too) and experience some similar symptoms. I have fiddled with the b-screw, the low gear stop, and I even checked the derailleur hanger alignment, can't quite figure it out. At least for the time being I'm chalking it up to one of two things: the Shimano 600 derailleur is a bit more finicky about tooth count than the conventional wisdom suggests (I had the original 600 freewheel but it was like a 24t or 25t or something, which was a tough slog on hills with a 52-42 up front), or it's simply frame flex under load that's tweaking the alignment down there. I say that because it's way more noticeable when I'm standing, trying to get up a really steep hill. Sit-and-spin sort of stuff doesn't seem to trigger it. Let us know if you figure it out!

Perhaps I can be of some assistance. Driving now. I will consult with the cult and create a spate of smileable mileable options amenable to your abilities.

Above all, proud of you.

Try moving your rear wheel further back in the dropouts.

Will give it a shot, thanks. Was pleasantly surprised during the refurb that the dropout screws were fully functional.

That's great photo. My saddle had that dusty look (unless that's glare), and the wax that gives boots a flat finish and some water protection really helped, without going to a gloss like a shoe polish would. I'm not sure what recommended treatment is, the Ironman is the only bike I've done anything to the saddle.

Progress
 

Quick update.

B screw, and moving the wheel further back in the dropouts, got me to the ~5mm gap, tooth to tooth, between cog and sprocket that I read was recommended. Went through the derailleur adjustment procedure again.

It definitely seemed better on today's 17.5 mile ride. But today was with kids (14, 12 & 10), slow and flatter. I'll need a more aggressive ride to tell if it's good enough.

Pads were definitely an improvement. Installing the Kool stop shoes was a challenge, as the brake arms hadn't really had the slot finished over its whole length. It needed a little file work before the barrel could move up and down to adjust shoe position.

And, as I was putting the bike away, I realized that I think the left and right shoes are wrong! The part that sticks out to toe-in is towards the front of the bike, not facing the direction that the wheel will be coming from. Any idea if that matters, other than cosmetically?

Thanks! Yeah the saddle needs some work, I had plans to buy a "suede brush" as I've seen that recommendation around, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Have also seen people using waxes like you mentioned, I will address it at some point. Cheers!

I did have some visible wear there! Thank you for the warning. I've wrapped that part of the seattube with white electrical tape as a protective layer. Hardly noticable.

Ride update
 

Since last update, I had the wheels retensioned, flipped the brake shoes so the pads are facing the right way, and took it our today for a near-40 mile ride.

I'm really enjoying it.

Gears are barely low enough 39f, 32r, but manageable. Climbed Alpine road to the end, 1000ft at only 4% average grade but heavily.back-loaded, and was OK. I think the key is not letting myself get too tired, the hills on the last 5 home I couldn't power over, and trying to sit at the low cadence was hurting the knees.

Photo below with pump and seat bag and saddle swap, at top of of the climb. I need to bring both my red and white bottles; the green clashes.

Both joyous speed and loving the nimble feel, and missing the higher bars of my other bike at the three hour mark.

About 100 miles on it now, since the gearing changes.

As of today this would be my go-to for anything under 30ish miles and not heavy climbing. If I was doing the metric century with 6kft of climb, I'd still want my other bike.

This being why I need both!
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cc30461e41.jpg

To -Do list
 

Still to do are:

• Paint touch up, with Testors red. That will be fun and I'll post pictures.
• Headset rebuild and adjust. There's play, not noticable when just riding along. But I can move the fork, and on a firm braking can feel a clunk reposition happen.
• Bottom bracket. Small amount of play, and has probably never been done.
• Front hub? No play, rear races looked good, and the wheel spins a long time. I'm not sure if this is a priority.

The problem is that I don't really want to take the bike out of service these days. Any opinions on which of those are more important, and on which are medium wrench-difficulty?

If you're planning to ride more in the immediate future, the headset is #1 priority. The bottom bracket is a very close second. Both should be done before riding again any significant distance. Youtube is your friend here -- both are pretty straightforward, and you could really speed up the wear and/or damage of the headset if you leave it with enough play that there is a perceptible clunk.

Beautiful bike, btw.

Very Nice. Your Saddle to bar drop does not look excessive. I bet your body will get accustomed to it if you increase your ride frequency and duration slowly. You could rotate the bars back a few degrees to help if you are most often on the hoods. For sure, follow noobinsf advice and rebuild the headset and bottom bracket.

Headset rebuild; 1 of ??
 

Started the headset rebuild today.

I have the 5/32" loose ball bearings from the 2011 Niagara order back when I first planned the rehab. I'm not sure that my vernier skills are enough to establish that the caged balls that had been used were 5/32", but they seemed smaller than the 3/16".

I use the plastic egg tray to keep track of parts in the order they come off. First picture was after disassembly, second was after cleaning the locknut, top race, and washers.

(Side note: Thanks to bikeforums C&V for threads about safely removing the funny star-nut thing, that it's compatible with a 32mm. I put some painter's tape on there to protect the finish.)

All the contact surfaces look smooth, no sign of fretting ("brinelling").

One oddity was the fork steerer tube having lost some paint. Looks like a section flaked off. My thinking was that any attempt at touch-up might just also fall off and into the lower bearing. I was going to just make sure it had a grease smear on the unpainted area when I reassembled. Does that seem reasonable?


I definitely feel more confident working on the bike. My pre- and post-work are getting smoother, too, things like: put on music, take out stand, open stand, unhang bike, get on bike tools, etc. are getting such that 45 minutes of light are enough to make progress. "Hey, if I put the stand here instead, I can open the toolset there and it's only 1 step away..."

I've got a 1985.9 model year
 

Hi.

Finished the headset, with new balls and grease, and it's nice not to have that moving.

Also did the bottom bracket Saturday, and took it for a ride on Sunday. That also feels good, and checking post ride I didn't have any play in the cranks the way I previously had.

Is there some trick for getting the fixed cup really clean without removing it? I felt pretty good about how it ended up, before regreasing and reassembly, but it was a pain.

And, I don't know how common it is to the Ironman family, but my bike with an N6... Serial number, and SIS shifters, has the Tange bottom bracket listed for 1985 models. As far as I can tell, everything else lines up with the 1986 components in the Ironman spreadsheet.