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-   -   Loaded touring on Vintage bike (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1181057)

TiHabanero 08-13-19 05:33 PM

Loaded touring on Vintage bike
 
Anyone here doing loaded tours on a vintage machine of 1985 or earlier? Stock hubs, derailleurs, etc?

Brian25 08-13-19 05:49 PM

Almost. I have a 1973 Atala. When I went to put on an 8 cog cassette, the Suntour VGT derailleur would not cover the range, so I "modernized" the bike a bit.

TiHabanero 08-13-19 06:34 PM

I am thinking of using a set of Campy NR hubs I have laying around as I know they were used on touring bikes in the 70's. Everything is vintage, but I don't want problems out in the middle of nowhere! I figure the hubs and der. will give the most trouble down the road.

Tourist in MSN 08-13-19 07:06 PM


Originally Posted by TiHabanero (Post 21074275)
I am thinking of using a set of Campy NR hubs I have laying around as I know they were used on touring bikes in the 70's. Everything is vintage, but I don't want problems out in the middle of nowhere! I figure the hubs and der. will give the most trouble down the road.

I assume you are talking about touring on a steel frame bike with 120 or 126mm rear dropouts.

If the frame was steel and had 126mm dropouts, you should be able to put a modern freehub type hub with cassette into the frame if you used a 130mm road hub. You just have to pull the stays out a bit to drop the wheel into the frame.

My rando bike is a modern (I bought it new in 2016) frame that had 130mm rear dropouts, but I am using an old 135mm wheel in it that I already had. I just have to pull the stays out a bit to put the wheel in. I also have a 1961 Italian bike with 120mm dropouts and I am using some 1980s vintage 126mm wheels in that frame, again I just have to pull the stays apart to drop the wheel in.

But if your frame is 120mm spacing, it would be harder to drop a modern 130mm hub into it. Others that have cold set frames would have better knowledge on this than me.

BikeWonder 08-13-19 10:23 PM

I'm not sure what info you're looking for, but I did a 500km tour on my 1982 Miyata 1000 last year. Had front and rear panniers. My 1982 lacked fork braze-on and a seat tube bottle mount, so the front rack I used had a adapters and I installed a bottle mount adapter. I used vintage cannondale panniers for the front and back.

The ride itself was very smooth. My bike had 27 1 1/4 inch tires using Schwalbe HS159 tires. The bike had a Suntour ARx FD/RD with downtube shifters, Sugino AT triple crank, 6 speed freewheel and Sansin Gyromaster hubs.

The frame itself used Miyata's own double butted tubing. The ride was superb. The M1000s are well known to ride well loaded or unloaded. It felt really sporty.

In terms of reliability,I did not have any issues. I chose the right components and did not ride aggressively unless I needed to.

I would've liked to use bar end shifters instead of downtube. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...242323738b.jpg
Unfortunately the only picture I took before the long haul.

saddlesores 08-13-19 11:56 PM


Originally Posted by TiHabanero (Post 21074179)
Anyone here doing loaded tours on a vintage machine of 1985 or earlier? Stock hubs, derailleurs, etc?

what exactly do you wanna know? before '86, we toured exclusively on 'vintage' machines. worked out rather nicely. some still do, and it still does.

are you asking because you have an older bike, or are considering buying an old bike?

if you already have one, and everything works......go on a tour and have fun.

if you're looking at a vintage tourer, and everything works.....buy it, go on a tour and have fun.

ironwood 08-14-19 12:24 AM

I did in the late seventies and early eighties. I could do so still, but I don't camp any more.

geoffs 08-14-19 01:58 AM


Originally Posted by BikeWonder (Post 21074603)
I'm not sure what info you're looking for, but I need a 500km tour on my 1982 Miyata 1000 last year. Had front and rear panniers. My 1982 lacked fork braze-on and a seat tube bottle mount, so the front rack I used had a adapters and I installed a bottle mount adapter. I used vintage cannondale panniers for the front and back.

The ride itself was very smooth. My bike had 27 1 1/4 inch tires using Schwalbe HS159 tires. The bike had a Suntour ARx FD/RD with downtube shifters, Sugino AT triple crank, 6 speed freewheel and Sansin Gyromaster hubs.

The frame itself used Miyata's own double butted tubing. The ride was superb. The M1000s are well known to ride well loaded or unloaded. It felt really sporty.

In terms of reliability,I did not have any issues. I chose the right components and did not ride aggressively unless I needed to.

I would've liked to use bar end shifters instead of downtube. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...242323738b.jpg
Unfortunately the only picture I took before the long haul.

Wow, they are old. I had yellow cannondale panniers that were the same. They used to leak like a sieve so i changed to Karrimor Iberian panniers for my first tour.

geoffs 08-14-19 02:04 AM

Save the campy hubs for an eroica bike that gets just used occasionally. If you are carrying a load then old hubs with screw on freeewheels are not reliable. You might be lucky but there is a big reason that all hubs now use cassettes and that is the axle is supported at each end and another bearing inside the freehub body. Old hubs have the freewheel hanging out past the bearing supporting the axle and are prone to bending. I used to buy Dura-ace axles by the box when I was a youngster riding big kms

3speed 08-14-19 03:35 AM

As mentioned above by Geoffs, the rear hub is something to be wary of. I've only bent a few axles in my life. They were on decent quality 80's bikes with freewheels and my cheapo bike as a teenager with a freewheel. I only weigh 150lbs. I wouldn't hesitate to tour on a vintage frame, and even the other stock parts, but I'd replace the rear wheel without second thought before heading out on any long distance loaded tour. There's a reason many companies were coming up with their own solutions to stronger rear axle and hub designs in the 80s.

Originally Posted by BikeWonder (Post 21074603)
...It felt really sporty...

...I did not ride aggressively...

Hmm... Don't get me wrong, I Love 80's Miyatas. My 916 is one of my favorite bikes I've ever owned. It's a wonderful, sporty bike, and a nice race bike in it's time. I just want to clarify some for newbies who might be reading... Your feeling of sporty might vary from other people's opinion of sporty. A loaded Miyata 1000, or even unloaded, is often described, positively, in Many ways, but sporty isn't generally one of the frequently chosen descriptions of a vintage touring bike. I've ridden a few 80s and an early 90s touring bike. Nice rides? Yes. Sporty? I don't think I could get behind that one. Maybe the Bridgestone 550 Sport Touring? The old touring bikes do tend to be very smooth riding bikes. In general Miyata made fantastic bikes. I'm still looking for another 916 or Team frame-set one size smaller. It's a serious shame the company went under so soon. They made some of the best bikes on the mainstream market.

staehpj1 08-14-19 04:00 AM

I have a Nishiki Cresta frame with components that are older than what you suggest that I had planned to tour on, but never actually toured on it. I doubt I will every bother to set it up and tour on it but see no reason I couldn't if I really wanted to. It would have to be because I really wanted to ride a retro bike or for so reason other than purely logical ones though. I think at least slightly newer bikes offer a lot more.

I did do most of the Southern Tier (San Diego to Pensacola) on a 1990 Canondale Crit bike that had almost all of the original components still on it other than a different cluster and crankset. I really enjoyed that bike. Seven speeds, super crisp shifting, completely trouble free and great memories of riding in my younger years. Add to that all the conversations of folks who stopped to tell me about how they raced on the same bike (or rims, or whatever) back in 1990. Something about that bike just makes me happy, I can't walk past it without touching it.

The only changes were to get a lower gear range. The crank was a triple with the big ring removed so effectively a ultra compact double (39/26) with a 12-28 cluster. It was kind of a weird set up, but it worked well for me and was adequate with the ultra light camping gear I was carrying (14# base).

Oh, yeah the fork wasn't stock either, but that was only because the original one was destroyed in a crash. Otherwise It still would have had the original.

I also did an on/off road tour on a 1990 Canondale mountain bike that was pretty close to box stock. A few parts were replaced over the years as they wore out or were broken, but generally with stuff similar to what was available at the time the bike was built. Some other stuff might have been changed for personal preference with period stuff. The bike was a joy to ride for the type of tour I took it on. I used Kenda Slant Six tires and they rolled okay on the road and worked great on the dirt.

andrewclaus 08-14-19 05:47 AM

I just sold my 1983 Trek 620. I'd been touring on it quite a bit lately, all in-state tours of less than 500 miles. It came equipped with a Helicomatic rear hub, and I just didn't like it very much so I upgraded the wheels. Then I salvaged some 8 speed brifters and that led to salvaged newer derailleurs. So it slowly modernized.

I sold it to a guy going touring in Cuba who planned on leaving the bike there as a donation. I thought that was cool.

BobG 08-14-19 05:51 AM

This is my 1982 Bill Vetter that hangs retired in my basement. No, I no longer tour on it but I could if not for a rust hole in the top tube.

120mm original dropout spacing reset to 126mm, Campagnolo headset, seatpost and hubs, Mavic rims, Mafac brakes, 6 speed freewheel, Avocet saddle and Blackburn racks.

Tires, chainrings, derailleurs, chains and freewheel/cassettes are replacement items on any bike. Also pictured is an obsolete TA crankset that would be replaced. If it were not for the compromised top tube it would be ready to roll again with the above changes!

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ca12127fef.jpg
1983 ACA Durango to Jasper "Great Parks Odyssey"

ironwood 08-14-19 06:40 AM

There are a lot of posts on the C&V forum by folks who tour on their old vintage bikes. As long as the frame hasn't rusted or been damaged it should be okay. You don't have to spread the rear to accomadate more speeds. Some modern improvements would be tires and brake pads. If I were younger and wanted to do a self supported camping tour, I'd love to ride on one of the French 650B camping bikes with the additional diagonal tubes.

By the way it would help if you would describe the bike you plan to tour on.

staehpj1 08-14-19 07:28 AM

One thing I didn't say in my previous post...

I found that I really didn't mind losing the higher end of the gear ratio range with my unconventional setup for the ST, so getting a super wide ratio setup isn't as necessary as people think IME. You could just go however low you need at the expense of the higher end of the range if necessary. That makes for a lot more flexibility in what you can make work. With my light load that wasn't very low and I was able to use the original short cage derailleur. In my case the range was 25.1 to 87.8 gear inches and I never found either end to be inadequate for the load I was carrying. With the limited high gear I just spun up to speed with a briefly really high cadence at the top of a descent and then tucked and coasted.

I was riding with a strong young guy (I am an old retired guy) and I didn't have trouble keeping up anywhere that higher gears would have helped. He climbed much better than me on long climbs, but I had no trouble staying with him on the flat sections. Strangely enough I was often faster than him on certain types of rolling terrain. I was carrying a lot less and rolling terrain is usually my forte, I love to hammer on rollers, so I guess it makes some sense.

BikeWonder 08-14-19 08:55 AM


Originally Posted by 3speed (Post 21074707)
As mentioned above by Geoffs, the rear hub is something to be wary of. I've only bent a few axles in my life. They were on decent quality 80's bikes with freewheels and my cheapo bike as a teenager with a freewheel. I only weigh 150lbs. I wouldn't hesitate to tour on a vintage frame, and even the other stock parts, but I'd replace the rear wheel without second thought before heading out on any long distance loaded tour. There's a reason many companies were coming up with their own solutions to stronger rear axle and hub designs in the 80s.

Hmm... Don't get me wrong, I Love 80's Miyatas. My 916 is one of my favorite bikes I've ever owned. It's a wonderful, sporty bike, and a nice race bike in it's time. I just want to clarify some for newbies who might be reading... Your feeling of sporty might vary from other people's opinion of sporty. A loaded Miyata 1000, or even unloaded, is often described, positively, in Many ways, but sporty isn't generally one of the frequently chosen descriptions of a vintage touring bike. I've ridden a few 80s and an early 90s touring bike. Nice rides? Yes. Sporty? I don't think I could get behind that one. Maybe the Bridgestone 550 Sport Touring? The old touring bikes do tend to be very smooth riding bikes. In general Miyata made fantastic bikes. I'm still looking for another 916 or Team frame-set one size smaller. It's a serious shame the company went under so soon. They made some of the best bikes on the mainstream market.

Fair statement. Perhaps for the prospective interest, it's a touring bike for sure, but it handles incredibly well for a touring bike. Many touring bikes flex a lot or feel "flat" in terms of responsiveness as they are just a tool to get you from point A to point B with gear.

On the C&V forums there are various testimonies to various touring frames including my own experience.

Personally, when it comes to vintage touring frames,I'll ride Miyata any day.

Tourist in MSN 08-14-19 11:04 AM


Originally Posted by BikeWonder (Post 21074603)
...
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...242323738b.jpg
Unfortunately the only picture I took before the long haul.

Nice set of panniers. A year and a half ago at a swap meet I picked up a pair of the rear Cannondale panniers that had hardly been used, paid something like $10 USD for them. Two or three other people that saw me carrying them around the swap meet after I bought them were offering me more for them than I had paid.

Now if I only had the front ones too, ... ...

BikeWonder 08-14-19 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN (Post 21075224)
Nice set of panniers. A year and a half ago at a swap meet I picked up a pair of the rear Cannondale panniers that had hardly been used, paid something like $10 USD for them. Two or three other people that saw me carrying them around the swap meet after I bought them were offering me more for them than I had paid.

Now if I only had the front ones too, ... ...

They're incredibly versatile. I lost one of the front panniers which bum me out, but they have held up really well with my gear. Apparently they are still sought after.

WGD 08-14-19 11:29 AM

I have several bikes but the one I ride most by far is my Ď84 Miyata 1000. Until recently, I hadnít been riding for several years but Iím back in the saddle and I have a few short tours planned. The bike is stock except that I changed the freewheel to 14-34 (period NOS and still 5-speed) and I swapped out the chainrings for 48-38-24 (also NOS). This was all in deference to my aging body.

I currently also have a set of Kirtland panniers and a handlebar bag, all of which I bought new in about 1980. But I will probably retire these in favor of some Frost River bags.

TiHabanero 08-14-19 06:14 PM

I have a 1985 Miyata 1000, but am building my own touring frame and will transfer the parts from the Miyata to my frame once it is done (almost there!). My biggest concern is the rear hub being freewheel and lack of proper axle support. On tours in the past I have bent axles, so this I am familiar with, and am trying to convince myself to build new wheels using cassette hubs. I just have a good selection of vintage parts that I feel wasteful not using them.

Tourist in MSN 08-14-19 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by TiHabanero (Post 21075948)
I have a 1985 Miyata 1000, but am building my own touring frame and will transfer the parts from the Miyata to my frame once it is done (almost there!). My biggest concern is the rear hub being freewheel and lack of proper axle support. On tours in the past I have bent axles, so this I am familiar with, and am trying to convince myself to build new wheels using cassette hubs. I just have a good selection of vintage parts that I feel wasteful not using them.

I applaud your efforts to avoid discarding perfectly good components, I too have bent axles so I would not want to use a older freewheel type hub for touring.

A friend of mine tours with freewheels, but he uses a Phill hub to avoid the weak axle problem. (He tours on a Habanero Titanium frame too.)

I suspect the Campy axles would be stronger than the axles you or I have previously bent, I have not heard of a Campy axle breakding, but still the cassette freehubs are such a much better design. If I was building up a frame it would be 135mm dropouts as that would have less dish than 130mm. If you really wanted to build a frame for old hubs, you would have to use 126 or maybe 120mm dropout spacing which I think is intentionally building a frame that is a bit too retro in thinking.

You should be able to find a good Deore steel axle 135mm spaced hub for a pretty good price.
https://www.modernbike.com/shimano-d...rear-hub-black

Two years ago I built up a new touring bike, I found a new M756A XT 36 hole hub for a pretty good price and used that, that particular hub is a steel axle design, but I was using a disc hub, not a rim brake hub.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-XT-M756A-Rear-Hub

A few months ago I was looking for a replacement freehub for a Deore hub for a disc brake wheel. I found it was cheaper to buy a new hub than only a replacement freehub. I bought this hub from this seller, he or she appears to have more hubs than only the one that I bought.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Shimano...m/153158570355

stardognine 08-14-19 09:50 PM

My everyday ride is my 1985 Cannondale touring bike. I'm fairly sure now, it's an ST500 frameset, built with various parts. The only thing missing, is cantilever brake posts. I don't mind that TOO much, just gotta watch your old sidepulls, on mountains. 🙄😉 With 700x38 tires, it's pretty smooth, at least. 😎

stardognine 08-14-19 09:59 PM

Meant to say, you need at least 36 spokes for the rear wheel, more if possible. That extra weight, especially hauling water, just punishes the rear wheel. 🙁 I'm on an old Exage hub now, with 36 spokes, which feels adequate, but I plan to look into a better wheel at some point. 🧐

ironwood 08-15-19 02:39 AM


Originally Posted by BobG (Post 21074754)
This is my 1982 Bill Vetter that hangs retired in my basement. No, I no longer tour on it but I could if not for a rust hole in the top tube.

You could have a framebuilder replace the top tube.

BobG 08-15-19 04:33 AM


Originally Posted by ironwood (Post 21076302)
You could have a framebuilder replace the top tube.

I considered that way back when, after discovering the blister in the paint as I do have a local frame builder friend. The frame had already been re-painted once and subsequently repaired at a dropout. Replaced it with a Bruce Gordon Rock'n'Road (now 25 and going strong!) which fit my travel style better as a touring/gravel hybrid. It will accept wider tires and bigger cassettes. As a short guy I also appreciate its sloping top tube!

I guess my comment for the OP was that some components can last for years and years (seatposts, brakes, handlebars, racks, cranks, some hubs, rims and bottom brackets, etc). Others are replaced regularly even on new bikes (tires, cables, brake pads, chains, headsets, cassettes, chainrings, some bottom brackets, etc). Some frames may require early retirement (my BV). Some keep on going like the Everready bunny (my BG)


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