Another Road disc wheel advice thread
 

I’m undecided between two disc wheels: DT Swiss PR 1400 and ER1600.

I like wide rims, climb a lot and do hilly rides - not interested in aero wheels or Carbon wheels. The PR 1400 have a slightly narrower internal width (18mm vs 20mm), are lighter and have what seems to be a better hub (240 internal vs 350 internal).

I have not seen a lot of reviews on both wheels. My questions are:

1) does anybody have experience with these wheels? If so, I would appreciate tour views on them.

2) will there be a noticeable difference between 18mm and 20mm for comfort, speed, handling? I usually ride 20mm wheels.

You should be. Why not carbon or "aero?" A 35mm or even 45mm deep carbon wheelset will still be under 1500 grams, which is kinda the cross-over boundary for what's considered a "light" wheelset. Especially in a disc hub, why not carbon?

I use my bike to commute, and I have to put it in a metal rack that holds the bike by thé wheels. I would not want to put a carbon rim on the rack and I don’t have the budget to buy two set of wheels.

you have the budget for $800 wheels? You have budget for carbon. Just sayin'. And which ER1600 are you talking about? There are 3 variations. At this budget, there are lots of options.

The rim doesn't make contact with the bike rack, does it?

https://novemberbicycles.com/products/select-road-disc

I have two wheelsets, and both have HED Belgium Plus rims. They don't suck.

But if I bought the second set again now, I would have bought November's carbon ones.

A few clarifications : the new wheels will be my only wheels. Furthermore, my bike at work is held in place by the rim - no carbon for that reason.

thanks for the link to November. Any real world review on the Aivee hubs?

Second that. I have a set of Ardennes+ SLs, which have those rims. They weigh < 1.6 kilos and definitely don't suck, but are every bit as expensive as not too cheap CFRP wheels.

Yup, hanging a ~20lb bike from a crabon wheel is a recipe for disaster.

Really, it's not an issue, but if you're insistent on avoiding carbon, I'd go with something built with HED Ardennes+ rims.

I don't follow you say its a recipe for disaster and then you say its not a problem.

Hanging your bike by the wheels (carbon or otherwise) is not a problem at all and it is not a recipe for disaster. If you're going to hang from your bike doing pull-ups? That might be a recipe for disaster.

Im thinking he was being sarcastic.

My sarcasm meter is in need of recalibration sir.

The "crabon" spelling should have been a dead giveaway. :p

The only rear difference between 240 and 350 is that the hubs are slightly heavier and they are made in taiwan, any maybe may use lower grade alu. and also use carbon steel bearings.

the 240 is made in switzerland (supposedly) and is lighter. and has stainless bearings.

i personally would get handbuilt ones. no matter the hub. I'd probably get 350 hubs if money was tight, they cost about as much as ultegra hubs. and the rear is about 100g lighter. but the genersl construction shimano vs dt is very different. the dts are built to never be touched until you have to swap bearings, (could take 15000-20000km or more) and the shimanos are made for an initial service before you even start using them.

i will try to explain how the grades work.
dt240 swiss made, stainless bearings. lightest. (you can get a steel freehub for these, and weight goes up) 250g for a rear and 105 for a front hub.
dt350 taiwan made and non stainless bearings. heavier by maybe 100-150g or so for both. less exotic machining. but tyhe 240ies are not in any way machines exotic, i'm a machinist by trade.

shimano dura ace - ti freehub, the mech is in the freehub, alu oversized axle, polished and exotic coating (some carbide/oxide/nitride) on bearing races. lightest. maybe 300g, like 50 g heavier than dt 240.

ultegra. steel freehub. alu oversized axle, 100g heavier or so than DA because of steel freehub. everything supposedly the same.

105. steel freehub, lesser exotic polishing and machining of races. maybe steel axle that is non oversized. and will therefore have bigger bearing balls in the freehub and all over.

lesser than 105: steel freehub, regular machines races, steel axle not oversized, big loose ball bearings since the axle is smaller, more/bigger balls in the freehub since the axle is smaller. a rear weighs about 400-450g. it will last until the end of eternity if lubed when new and taken apart and adjusted.
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shimano did the same this wuth the MTB hubs. where the slx hub was the all steel ones. and those were the best for durability. xt the worst and xtr the so so ones. you do the math.

I think the dt240ies are worth it since the stainless bearings seems to run forever. at least 15000km in the rear. with nothing done. and its very easy to service the mechanism. takes maybe 2 minutes.

I can do a shimano mech in 2minutes too but i have done them like 100 times. you definitely can't.

If i was going shimano i would go the all steel hubs (steel thin axle, steel freehubs look in the docs to determine, these are the lower grade ones 105 and lower). sure they are heavier than dt240 by about 200g out back and 50g up front heavier. but you can service them with only tools and grease. I have not noticed any difference in speed with 240 and slx hubs, and the slx were on heavier less aero rims too.

ymmv though. I also have dt 350ies. discs. the 350ies are good enough to be honest. minimal difference compared to the 240ies in reality. except the bearings. if i dont have to change the bearings in my hubs for an extra year thoug, i'd say 150-200€ is worth it. for the convenience alone!

Not getting any wiser i guess?? Neither did i, so i simply got all of them. :)

PRIO 1 for u is getting handbuilt wheels no matter the hubs or rims imo!! you will thank me later. even though dt wheels are good they are never as good "custom builders ones, never will be, not gonna happen.

just wanted to point this out since this is much much more important than your hubs. just saying!!

Thanks, after much searching, I am actually looking into handbuilt with Hed Belgium, undecided on the hubs: DT 350, RS 770 (but they are silent). Anything else seem to be much more costly, but open to suggestions.

I have DT 240 hubs with HED Belgium’s, I also have a spare back wheel same rim but a DT 350 hub. Can’t really tell the difference. I have about 27,000 miles on the front 240, bearings are just starting to feel a bit rough. Back 240 has maybe 20,000 miles and the 350 maybe 7,000, bearings feel perfect.

I also have November RCG 36 with 350 hubs for the gravel bike. Like them a lot. The rims see carbon 21.5mm internal I believe. Running 30mm Schwalbe Pro Ones, they measure almost 32 inflated. I can’t visualize a bike rack that would be a problem for carbon rims.

I think the rs770 is sjimano 105 grade non series hubs. they will do well. if you adjust the bearing preload (look this up on the net) in frame, properly lube the bearings (make sure you dont lose any loose balls), and pry the seal of the freehub, and drip motor oil in there (and keep doing this every year the freehub thing).

the dt 350ies needs to be lubed too. but this time the mechanism. you simply pull the freehub off of the axle. straight out, hard, until it comes off. then you have 2 ratchet rings that interface with each other, the stock ones are 18t and therefore 18 poe. upgrade ones are 36 and 54t ones. dont get 54t ones they sound like a swarm of bees. the 36 are silent.

the bearings in the 350ies are cartridge type and cannot be preloaded unlike shimano and usually can't be serviced, you simply bang the old ones out. and bang new ones in, when worn out.

the dt ratchets want a special type of grease, but i do a 50/50 of motor oil, molykote,
the shimano wants motor oil for the mech. and a flushing after initial wear has been done. to flush out the metal shavings.

you can get any one you want. you just have to understand there is some initial service required for both of them to make them last long. and you have to do it yourself. yes you.

for thje dt you dont need any tools for the shimanos you need a 13/15/17mm "cone spanner" wrenches, basically thin wrenches in 13, 15 and 17mm they can be 2,5mm or thinner to fit.

no matter what, some things are required from you. and by you doing this, is pretty much what separates S from GOOD (and you can try to figure out what S means here).
And then there is always the build of the wheel. and thats why i recommend handbuilt cutom ones. then you knwo at least that part is done correctly! so you dont have to worry about that.

I would probably go the level lower than 105/or old slx (all steel, thin axle, no alu axle) hubs and handbuilt, way, way before even 500-600€ factory wheels. maybe even 1k wheels. probably yes.

good data pint jim. I have about the same durability specs on mine. the dts are very durable.