First thoughts on Titanium
 

Finally got my Litespeed T6 back from a LBS for a rivnut repair. I bought the bike off ebay from a seller who claimed he bought the bike 6 months ago and road it twice. While I couldn't verify that for sure, the bike did look mint when I got it. I am not sure if I over tightened or cross threaded the rivnut myself or it was just like that but the seller refunded me the repair cost. From what I can tell the only thing the original owner changed was the tape which he switched to white and switched the black and red Prologo saddle to a black and white one. The bike came with come metal cages and I added my Topeak saddle bag, QuadLock mount, and some cheap platform pedals off Amazon that match the bikes black and white theme. Personally I am not a huge fan of the white tape and it will probably be the first thing I change. While I prefer this generations logos over the older yellow Litespeed ones I still think the logos look cheap and I wish there were just black or just looked more premium.


My last bike was a 2017 Scott Addict 20 Disc and on paper it was an awesome bike, Shimano Ultegra groupset, hydraulic disc brakes, 28mm tires, 18.2lbs stock, it was fast and killed hills, but after a crash and another small spill I became paranoid about every scratch or chip on the bike. The last straw was when I found quarter inch of paint missing from the the chain stay which was caused from the chain popping off after a crash and getting jammed between the metal chain plate. I could never quite tell if the chain damaged the carbon fibers or if it was cracked, or if it was totally fine. Not wanting to worry as much I sold the bike to someone while disclosing the damage, I guess to them the damage wasn't a big deal but that same guy hauled bike away on a car bike rack that used straps and he didn't secure the front wheel. I tried telling him to not clamp carbon and to find something to tie down the from wheel from moving and bashing into his car, but they didn't seem to care.


So downgrading to 105 from Ultegra hasn't been a problem, quite frankly 105 is so close to Ultegra I couldn't even notice most of the time while riding. Aesthetically 105 isn't as fancy and uses reinforced fiberglass instead of carbon fiber, however while 105 does weigh more than Ultegra I couldn't really notice any weight difference since the Litspeed T6 uses rim brakes while the Scott Adict 20 has discs. I will say the performance difference between rim brakes and hydraulic disc brakes is very noticeable. Obviously any high end bike with hydraulic disc brakes costs hundreds more than a rim brake version, maintaining hydraulics is more complicated and costly, and replacing them is more money as well. By no means was my Scott Addict slammed and was left stock however geometry wise it was considered by Scott as race oriented bike while the Litespeed T6 was endurance focused. I am not trying oversell the titanium folklore but a Ti frame simply is smoother than any carbon frame I have ever ridden. Bumps and imperfections that would have jolted me and stung my wrists on carbon were smooth on Ti while being stiff and by no means floaty like steel. Simply the T6 with 25mm tires rides smoother than my Addict with 28mm tires while being roughly the same speed. I will say there is some toe tap on the Litespeed while the Scott didn't have that. I am 5'5' and have a 29" stand over and I think the T6 in a size small fits great. For Scott I normally ride a 49cm XS and that bike fit me very well too.


While some of these things are subjective carbon without a doubt to me is sexier since you get more aero shapes, have internal cable routing, and can be painted to any desire. I will say raw Titanium is pretty awesome looking though and having the ability to lightly polish out light scratches is huge. Carbon is a very strong and light material but simply is not a great crash resilient material and damage and defects sometimes can be hidden by paint, so detecting cracks can be very difficult compared to raw metal frames. Carbon can be very stiff and is great for racing but for a great combination of speed, comfort, reliability, and low maintenance I think Ti is king. Overall the T6 is a great bike and stock it weighted 18.5lbs which was only .3lbs heavier than a stock Addict 20 Disc. The thing I miss the most are the disc brakes but more than likely my next bike will be a Litespeed with dics. Titanium is by no means cheap and frankly isn't lighter than carbon so for many people it's a hard sell but after going to Ti I am hooked and I am not sure if I could ever bike a carbon bike again unless it was just for racing.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e329900048.jpg

Howz the ride feel in comparison?
Maybe its just my bikes, but my rim brake bikes are a lot smoother in the front end as the fork does not have to be designed and reinforced to take so much torque from the disk brake down by the axle.

I'm cringing reading about they guy who bought your carbon bike. Geeze, whatever...

I've seen quite a few rivnut failures on frames, all of them aluminum and carbon. Habanero Cycles welds the bosses to their titanium frames. Makes a ton more sense. I love the ride of ti, rides like a top end steel frame. I did find that I prefer the ride when the frame is mated to a steel fork. Carbon forks are not to my liking as they seem to be a bit too stiff.

Ti is king, for sure! Won't rot, scratches are no biggie as they can be rubbed out quite easily, and weight is more than light enough for a non-pro rider.

Welcome to the titanium club!

Honestly the design and quality of construction are more important than material in terms of frame properties. Because titanium is much more expensive as a raw material and very difficult to weld, titanium frames tend to be well designed and properly built compared to many booger-welded steel and aluminum bikes out there.

But I agree on the observations regarding ease of damage inspection compared to carbon fiber.

Fyi there's no reason you can't paint titanium, but because of titanium's oxide layer being so impervious to further corrosion, most people prefer the raw metal finish.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...23c79d1166.jpg

Lemond Poprad
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dea360d46d.jpg

Airborne Zeppelin
I have a titanium Airborne Zeppelin I bought used and I really like the ride. It has an ovalized downtube, sloping top tube, ovalized and curved chainstays, curved seat stays that connect with the seat tube about 3 inches below the top tube. Also has a CF fork. It is light and plenty stiff. I also like the look of the bare metal.

Last week I bought a Lemond Poprad with frame and fork of 853 Reynolds tubing. The chain stays on it are ovalized and all other tubing is pretty traditional. It is not as light as the ti bike, but also plenty stiff. It is a CX bike, so the geometry of it and the ti bike are quite different. The Poprad was powder coated in a yellowish cream color last year, and I like it.

Both bikes are equipped with Ultegra 9 speed and both now have Mavic Open Pro/Ultegra hubs wheelsets. The Poprad can fit at least 35 mm tires, the Zeppelin maxes at 25 mm. The feel of the bikes are quite similar as far as stiffness and transfer of power. The Zeppelin is more nimble and accelerates quicker and the Poprad is more stable and compliant; more weight, longer wheelbase, wider tires. They are both comfortable but I think the Poprad is going to prove to be more so for longer mileage/time rides. If climbing is involved, definitely the Zeppelin.

I cannot rank one over the other. I very much enjoy riding both of them. Both the titanium and the 853 are materials that I lusted for in bike builds. Now I have the best of both worlds and plan on keeping it that way.

Yeah I actually have seen some cool paint jobs on Ti, just not having paint is pretty awesome since you never have to worry about chips/fading and buffing out small scratches seems super easy

Now you have seen one more...sort of. It's not pan but rather Cerakote ceramic glaze. Lighter, stronger and cheaper than paint.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...27cd6b431d.jpg

I had a Vortex in 06 or 07'. I bought it brand new and the rivnuts immediately got loose. Then when tightened, the bottle cage was askew. Really pissed me off for a frame of such value.

BTW, more than a decade ago, a had it at 14lbs 15oz.

I did not like the bike and sold it nearly immediately for a loss.

On the rivenuts, if they continue to be a problem, you can have braze-ons added by a titanium builder. Dean added 8 water bottle/rack mounts to the bike below for $280. They added two bottle mounts below the downtube for the splash guard, 4 rack mounts and 2 mounts for my winter fender system. It took about a month.

In addition to not having to worry about chipping the paint, the gray color of the titanium makes for a nice background for components with color, like this

https://live.staticflickr.com/1782/4...2d3cee5b_k.jpg
DSCN0934 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f4b7898a_k.jpg
Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr

Again I am not trying to oversell Ti but it is somewhat magical. I would ride 30 miles on my carbon bikes and my body would be sore for a couple days. At the time I didn't really think much of it and thought I was just out of shape or just pushed too hard, but after only two rides on my Ti bike I have noticed I don't get sore even on back to back rides. Going over broken pavement and bumps on a Ti bike simply doesn't jolt me or kill my wrists like a carbon bike has.


That could be true, however I did test ride a Litespeed Cherohala 105 Disc at a LBS (my dream bike) and while it was a short ride it was also extremely smooth, granted it did have 32mm clinchers which certainly helped but any disc bike will mostly likely be able to accommodate bigger tires than its rim brake counterpart.

Yeah, wider/thicker tires will do more for a supple ride than any frame material alone. I don't think I'll ever buy another bike that can't run at least 35mm wide tires.

So much LOL woo in this thread

What’s the deal, you don’t have a mirror at home?

Yep.
Cringeworthy.

Some bikes just "speak to me." This is one of them. I never tire of seeing it.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1fd3df7c7b.jpg
I will stay away from comparison of frame materials since I'm kind of obtuse and don't easily notice the differences. However, back in the day when Cannondale first came out with AL bikes I rode one and thought I'd lost the fillings in my teeth. Then about 13 years ago my GF bought me a Masi Gran Criterium. It is all Dura Ace and an AL frame w/ CF fork and stays. I loved that bike but it was a bit too big. It's beautiful but it sits in my garage. Since then I've added a steel Guru, an AL Colnago cross bike and, this year, my GF bought me a CAAD12 for my 73rd birthday. All that to say...don't ignore AL. Or, good steel actually. My Guru and CAAD12 are light (both around 17 lb. 11 oz), quick and comfortable. I have nothing against CF but for the same price you can get CF with lower components or AL with higher components. As a 73 year old, recreational rider with two bikes coming in at under 18 lbs, this is a no brainer for me. FWIW, this CAAD12 is 105, now wears Mavic USTs and cost $1300 with the original Aksium clinchers.

Or you could go tubeless. My Mavic USTs (25s) are incredibly smooth, efficient and comfortable. I won't be going back.

I have the same setup as you. You should really try the Yksion Pro 28's. Suuuper nice and according to Mavic engineers they are supposedly faster than the 25's.

There was a car analogy that I read somewhere that described the difference very well. Anyway, from my perspective owning both...the Ti (my Ti) has the ability to soak up road imperfections while still maintaining rigidity required to be super responsive. It is more comfortable than my carbon and is just as snappy.

Oh no doubt, aluminium and steel have their merits hands down and I looked at an All City and CAAD13. Steel IMO has the most supple ride characteristics however without a doubt finding a sub 19lb steel bike is rare and or very expensive. Both steel and aluminium are usually painted which is a plus and negative IMO, but the paint jobs on ALL City bikes are amazing... Steel has similar issues to Ti in what shapes can be produced. Aluminium IMO just have sexier shapes and the CAAD line is a beauty.

To get to the point if you negate the price of Ti bikes to degree and get one used or on closeout you are really getting the best of aluminium, steel, and even parts of carbon. However it's hard not to look at Ti bikes and see how a frame alone for most companies is $2K or an "entry level" 105 rim brake bike starts at $3500 bare minimum. I didn't go this route but if you don't mind Motobecane or BD their Ti bikes are a hell of a deal. $2000 for a Ti bike with Ultegra and rim brakes and $2500 for the hydraulic disc brake version is insane and would be my choice over any steel or aluminium bike

There is no universal right answer since everyone has different uses and goals while cycling but for me Ti hits that sweet spot in terms of maintenance, crash resilience, ride qualities, and weight. I can totally understand if you want steel for a more supple ride, aluminium for value and style, and carbon for ultimate aero and weight

Mine came with the 25s mounted. When it's time I may take your advice. Thanks.

This old girl

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b09d98b334.jpg

is a much smoother ride than this

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1226330b79.jpg

Harshest riding bike I ever owned was a Colnago Master Olympic.

Awesome moots. They cost a small fortune but are probably the best Ti bikes around

I couldn't stand the white tape so changed it to some black gel cork tape which is soft and padded well and I think the bike looks a lot better with less maintenance.

Also switched the saddle to a Selle Italia Gel C2

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...65c05d7012.jpg

You keep your bike outside?