Q-factor - pedal strike calculator ?
I remember coming across an Excel form online where you filled certain measurements of your bike (BB height, Q-factor, pedal width) and it told you the angle of lean in which pedal strike happens.
Anybody have it bookmarked? |
Back in the day we just leaned over the bike and watched for when the pedal touched the ground, then we "measured" the angle between the seat tube and the road. Andy (who has sharpened his Campy pedal quills with the road a few times)
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I vaguely remember seeing something like that, but can't help you.
However, unless you're riding fixed wheel none of it matters. Pedal strikes are easily avoided by good ingrained habits. Imposing limitations on bike design is unnecessary, and may cause other issues not justified by any actual benefit. |
What would one do with this information? Use it for selecting bikes? Install an artificial horizon on the handlebars?
I doubt there is much variation between current road racing bikes. |
Originally Posted by FBinNY
(Post 23174608)
I vaguely remember seeing something like that, but can't help you.
However, unless you're riding fixed wheel none of it matters. Pedal strikes are easily avoided by good ingrained habits. Imposing limitations on bike design is unnecessary, and may cause other issues not justified by any actual benefit. I call Peugeots and my Raleigh Competition "Slinkies" because the BBs are so low I hit pedals on a regular basis. Good thing is the lean angles are so low it isn't a big deal. But pedals that aren't rugged need not apply for work on those bikes. (I have a box of dead Leotard Berthet pedals - loose at the press-fits and missing all the dustcaps because the left ones want to unscrew every pedal strike. I don't know if pedal strike added to the press-fit loosening. It certainly did not help. Just saw that those pedals can be had on Ebay for $273. A higher BB and I could be wealthy.) |
My idea is that this info would be useful for choosing cranks and pedals and if considering going down in wheel/tire size
EDIT: Found it! Right where I should have checked first, Sheldon Brown's site https://sheldonbrown.com/bbdrop.html |
Originally Posted by Kontact
(Post 23174626)
What would one do with this information? Use it for selecting bikes? Install an artificial horizon on the handlebars?
I doubt there is much variation between current road racing bikes. Aren't race bikes still tailored toward US criteriums (10-3/4"+ BBs) and European mountain races (closer to 10-1/2")? That 1/4" makes a big difference on pedal strike. |
Q factor has got to be the least significant of the variables affecting lean limits. Surely crank length, bottom bracket height, even pedal platform width ... all of those probably 'can' have dimensional variables significant enough to affect lean angle. Cranks can be anything from 175mm (180mm) down to 140mm (130?). Could Q factor possibly have that kind of variability? Never mind, just opened the o.p. link in another window. A bottom bracket height calculator is a VERY different thing from a Q-factor calculator which even an outlier geek like SB knew wasn't worth getting hot and bothered about.
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
(Post 23174705)
Q factor has got to be the least significant of the variables affecting lean limits. Surely crank length, bottom bracket height, even pedal platform width ... all of those probably 'can' have dimensional variables significant enough to affect lean angle. Cranks can be anything from 175mm (180mm) down to 140mm (130?). Could Q factor possibly have that kind of variability? Never mind, just opened the o.p. link in another window. A bottom bracket height calculator is a VERY different thing from a Q-factor calculator which even an outlier geek like SB knew wasn't worth getting hot and bothered about.
B Height, 1/2" (12.5 mm) change - 3.6 degrees or 3.5 mm change causes 1 degree of lean Q-factor, 30 mm change - 2.2 degrees or 17 mm change causes 1 degree of lean Crank arm length, 20 mm change - 3.8 degrees or 3.5 mm change causes 1 degree of lean Pedals can make a much bigger impact. I drew this around a 10-3/4" BB height varying: B Height, 11" to 10-1/2" Q-factor, 135 to 175 mm Crank arm length, 180 to 160 mm Pedal used was a Shimano Dura Ace semi-platform that measured 3-1/2" width along the spindle centerline and is so cutaway that I assumed there would be no hit first from a bottom corner. (The pedals are designed for racing on the velodrome where pedal strikes are crashes,) |
Originally Posted by 79pmooney
(Post 23174827)
I just sketched out a typical road bike. Angular effects of changing BB height, Q-factor and crank length are:
B Height, 1/2" (12.5 mm) change - 3.6 degrees or 3.5 mm change causes 1 degree of lean Q-factor, 30 mm change - 2.2 degrees or 17 mm change causes 1 degree of lean Crank arm length, 20 mm change - 3.8 degrees or 3.5 mm change causes 1 degree of lean Pedals can make a much bigger impact. |
None of these things has extremes. Today's bikes and cranks are more alike than different. You can't even use a modern derailleur with a Nuovo Record era crank because the arm is too close to the outer chainring.
Current aftermarket cranks are poor matches to Shimano and Campy front shifting, even if you can find a usefully narrower one. So I don't see what anyone hopes to get out of this aside from being nostalgic to the days of narrow cranks and actual crit geometry. |
Originally Posted by Krov9
(Post 23174669)
My idea is that this info would be useful for choosing cranks and pedals and if considering going down in wheel/tire size
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Originally Posted by Krov9
(Post 23174669)
My idea is that this info would be useful for choosing cranks and pedals and if considering going down in wheel/tire size
EDIT: Found it! Right where I should have checked first, Sheldon Brown's site https://sheldonbrown.com/bbdrop.html |
For context, I'm converting a French tourer (notorious for low BB's) from 700C to 650B and planning to use these. Cranks are narrow Q though.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6ae400aef7.jpg |
You can always do what the motorcycle racers do: lean slightly to the inside of the curve, causing the bike to be more upright. No need to drag yur knee though! :innocent:
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Originally Posted by Krov9
(Post 23175884)
For context, I'm converting a French tourer (notorious for low BB's) from 700C to 650B and planning to use these. Cranks are narrow Q though.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6ae400aef7.jpg
Originally Posted by sweeks
(Post 23176096)
You can always do what the motorcycle racers do: lean slightly to the inside of the curve, causing the bike to be more upright. No need to drag yur knee though! :innocent:
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Originally Posted by sweeks
(Post 23176096)
You can always do what the motorcycle racers do: lean slightly to the inside of the curve, causing the bike to be more upright. No need to drag yur knee though! :innocent:
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Originally Posted by urbanknight
(Post 23176154)
You're taking a bike with a low BB and making it even lower? :foo:
Crit racers do that as well. |
Pedal strike is only a consideration if you need to pedal through corners at high speeds. Only bike racers need to pedal through corners. Everyone else can coast.
Assuming your "old French tourer" is not going to be used for racing, which seems a fair assumption, maybe just consider coasting through corners. |
Originally Posted by 79pmooney
(Post 23174667)
I call Peugeots and my Raleigh Competition "Slinkies" because the BBs are so low I hit pedals on a regular basis. Good thing is the lean angles are so low it isn't a big deal. But pedals that aren't rugged need not apply for work on those bikes. |
Don't know if the o.p. is having us on or not with the plan to use Juvenile Market pedals, but, usually, a change to 650B also involves enough of an increase in the new tire's radius that bottom bracket height remains more or less the same as before. Otherwise, why bother??
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