Right, great when a shelter is not needed... As you know these were originally for alpine climbing, where a hot set-up at one time was to wear a jacket, and stuff your feet into a pack. One could get very short bags that came up to the jacket, or Marmot made shell pants that zipped the legs together. High in the mountains bugs, and rain are not always present, but bringing these technologies down to ground places them in a different environment. So as a result the bags started to morph into tents, the thing is volume expands much more rapidly than weight so if one knows math ultralite bivies are kinda a mugs game. Double the weigh of a shelter it gets 8 times larger in volume ish.

If you want to know what is even less popular than ultralite, it is bivies. I have camped in mine, a goretex version with wings over the head for a few breaths of air. Maybe with a micro tarp, but it leaked also, which is not the biggest problem in it's intended function. Total joke, nobody uses them. I call BS on any serious non-alpine use. Lazy is not what comes to mind: high maintenance poor design for service; better off setting up a real shelter vs all one goes through in those things. Bivies are not intended to be comfortable. In many cases people didn't sleep at all.

You didn't like yours, that's a shame. Mine is plenty comfortable ​for me.

+1. Eric Beck has this great quote that at "either end of the social spectrum there lies a leisure class". Bike touring is essentially non-thrifty since at least it burns through time, which is money.

I disagree with the second part. You don't get out enough if you think this only happens in bike touring. There are lots of money saving justifications because money is something most people value. There are thousands of crafts and most have that as a justification. But it gets worse. Some activities are just thriftiness. Blacksmithing is one that comes close. They make everything. This mag lampooned that mentality with a comic essay about a guy whose woodworking got so out of hand he had his own mini steel foundry. Well guess who does that for real...

I do believe it works for you if you say so, but it is so absurd I don't actually believe it works for anyone else. If sticking your head in a bag and closing it was such a good idea, it wouldn't be a method of torture, or suicide. The main use for the body conforming zippered bag is a body bag.

Now one needs the ground rules. They are that the bag is closed and there are actual conditions that would require one to be protected in a normal measure that a tent easily provides: Rain, snow, wind. one mosquito per cubic inch. And one is doing normal things like eating, reading, changing clothes getting up in a muddy situation and going to the bathroom etc... If the only situation it is working in is one where nothing would work, it isn't working. That sounds like my teenagers idea of work.

A good tarp is very nearly the shape of the "tarp" on an a-frame tent. End caps are very useful for pitch and protection. Silnylon runs 5-10 dollars a 60" wide swath, and though it is somewhat demanding, one could sew a tarp in the time the top 50% have spent posting in this thread. Sewing skills and machines are no longer that well distributed, though.

Although I have a 30 year old Wild Things GTX bivy my favorite is made by MLD (Mtn. Laurel Designs). It has a breathable top, waterproof bottom and a long entry zipper for ease of use. It fits a thick air pad and quilt. No need for a ground cloth. It also keeps the critters out and adds a little warmth and protection from bugs, dew and rain spray under my tarp. It weighs 6 Oz and packs very small as does the tarp.

This bivy and tarp weigh less than the GTX bivy and are used regularly as survival gear on day rides or hikes when i am uncertain about weather or other risks such as a mechanical or injury far from home. Just a little insurance. I used it on the Divide Ride for cowboy camping on good weather nights.

As noted by others new light tents often weigh the same or less than these modular combinations of tarp and bivy but may not provide the same close to nature experience some enjoy with the tarp and bivy. Different strokes.

I use the Outdoor Research Alpine Bivy, which is gore-tex with a waterproof sil-nylon bottom.

I didn't like the Delrin pole it came with. So, I rigged up a rope, as seen here:

https://maxthecyclist.files.wordpres...7/md027854.jpg

That's Kelley's hammock. I'm not really under it; maybe 10% of my bivy is protected by her tarp. But, it saved me finding a strong branch if I just roped to her hammock ridgeline, so that's what I did on this particular night. Usually, I just find an overhead branch.

https://maxthecyclist.files.wordpres...7/md027925.jpg

Here is a close-up of the connection between the bivy and the line. I used a 3" loop of shock cord to give the rope a little "flex" in wind or rain or snow, so it doesn't snap the branch or cause the stitches at the tie-off to wear out. It also keeps tension on the line so the bivy stays off my face, even if I shift around at night. This has proven to do a really good job.

The alpine bivy has a little bit of a "lip" on it that acts as an umbrella in wet weather. Since the "bathtub" floor of the bivy and the "umbrella" of the entrance overlap, it's nearly impossible for water to get in at the zipper. Here's a picture of it so you can see what I mean:

http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aaqu...9_915_main.jpg

Most nights, it's not raining, and I can hook the lip of that "umbrella" onto the little plastic hook where my shock cord thingamajig is. Scroll back up and take a look at how that works. Maybe it's hard to see, but the plastic hook serendipitously fits the black rim of the "umbrella" perfectly, holding it securely and giving me a fully open bivy, lifted away from my body, on warm nights.

By lowering the "umbrella" but not zipping it fully, I get good airflow and I'm still rainproof. I have never actually had to zip the bivy completely up. I suppose someday I will be at risk for hypothermia and sealing it for warmth may become necessary, but I hope not. In practice, the bug net is closed depending on bugs, and the rain cover ("umbrella") is always unzipped, and lowered when the weather is grim.


Now, inevitably, there is some condensation buildup. That's not a big deal. Since my sleeping bag is synthetic, it dries fast and doesn't get any less warm from a little moisture. It pairs well with the bivy as a multi-day system.


99.9% of the time I lay my bivy down, I am not in the middle of a parking lot. It is easy to set up a bivy in a baseball dugout, underneath the eaves of a building, under some trees, next to a wall, near some bushes, or even in a gazebo at a park. It is easy to find natural cover from windblown rain, snow, and sleet. I have never found myself in a sleeping spot without at least some natural cover. This makes the bivy much more useful; often, it may be howling and storming, but the actual place I'm sleeping is completely protected and the flexibility of a bivy vs a tent lets me keep away bugs and critters, keep in warmth, and stay completely dry and cozy.

I love it.

That bivy looks pretty nice. It'd save me half a pound compared to my tent.

Have you ever used it in the rain without a tarp? If I carried a tarp too then I might as well just use my tent, because the weight would be similar.

I have used it in the rain without a tarp about five times. I got it over the summer, and even though I went camping like 30 times between May and August, we had almost no rain. September-November I have just been working, but I did get out for a few weekends and we had rain once, and it was fine there, too.

There are a great many reviewers on the web who use it regularly without a tarp. That's the most common use for this bivy, as I've seen. I did a lot of research before I pulled the trigger.

Using a bivy is not absurd, irresponsible, uncomfortable, or tortuous.

A tarp and bivy can easily protect you from the elements. I used that system for a week on the Pacific Coast. The tarp provides the rain, snow, wind protection while the bivy provides bug and extra wind protection while adding warmth to the sleep system. Plus it packs down to a tiny size. My whole sleep system (tarp, bivy, ground sheet, ground pad, quilt, one tent pole, stakes, guy lines) fit into a Revelate Viscacha.

http://www.gonesouthblog.com/wp-cont...eenmachine.jpg

Even though my trip was only a week long, it'd have happily continued down the coast for weeks with this setup. Is this setup good for everybody? Probably not. But it's great for people who enjoy it.

It's been interesting to read this thread. You get the people who claim that going ultralight means doing without creature comforts and then you read from people who travel ultralight who manage to enjoy the creature comforts too.

It depends on what you are looking for, but with only an 8 ounce savings the bivy seems less attractive.

Another option is something like the Borah Side Zip. At $84.99, the M90 one weighs in at 7 ounces. I do carry a 7 ounce tarp with it. By the time you add stakes and cords the whole deal comes in at about a pound. When it is hotter and buggier I tend to go with a $64.99, 6 ounce, bug bivy instead.

I typically don't pitch the tarp unless rain seems likely. If there is a surprise shower I just pull the tarp over me.

Borah Gear: Side Zipper Ultralight Bivy
Borah Gear: Ultralight Bug Bivy

I have also used an REI Minimalist. At 15 ounces and $99.50 (on sale right now for $69.93) it isn't bad, as long as it is either cool or not buggy. I found that it was kind of miserable when it was hot and buggy at the same time. I wished for more mesh in the heat and bugs of Louisiana on the Southern Tier.

REI Minimalist Bivy - Regular - REI.com

Moisture management is an issue with bivys. There will be some condensation, but it can be managed. I find it important have some mesh for ventilation and to breathe in the mesh area. I pit my NeoAir pad inside the bivy and any condensation either collects under the pad or down near the feet on the DWR shell of my sleeping pad. I wipe up the moisture on the pad and shake off the drops on the sleeping bag shell. I the down never gets soaked and the few drops under the pad are no big deal.

They have advantages and disadvantages. I actually prefer a flat tarp because I can pitch it a variety of ways depending on the conditions.

For me to use a bivy it would have to weigh considerably less than my Contrail tarptent and not get me wet because of condensation. Bivy vs tent is where I part company from some of the UL/lightweight folks on here. I simply like the space of a tent and I find a 1.5lb Contrail to be very quick and easy to pitch and comfortable to sleep in. It also packs down really small. I can fit the poles and the fly in my Camper saddlebag along with sleeping bag, sleeping pad, pillow, cook set, spare shoes, all my clothes, tools, spares etc.

That REI minimalist looks pretty nice. I'd like something along those lines for a cooler weather tour. Any other suggestions on lightweight slep systems?

Right now my current options are a Eureka Solitaire, and a Grand trunk Ultralight with Eno bug net and a mid-range tarp. I like the tent for warm buggy rides and trips where I expect lots of rain or few trees. The hammock setup I prefer for cooler weather, where I'd leave the bug net and save considerable space and weight compared to the tent.

I owned the Alpine Bivy as well. I liked it for a time, but as bivys go, not exactly lightweight. It's 2 pounds, which is fine if you don't want to/need to use a tarp. But if you do, then you are adding extra weight. And if you're dealing with wet weather, it's not as comfortable as being in a tent. I ended up selling mine and getting a Marmot Eos 1. It's no sexy tarptent, but with everything packed together, including storage bag, it weighs at 3 lbs. And I'm in a tent, not a bivy. But because I still like the concept of having a bivy, esp. if the conditions were right, I picked up a Mountain Hardwear Conduit bivy, which is cheaper than the OR Alpine and comes in under a pound.

Your setup is dialed. A tent like that is worth the slight weight penalty.

I used my Super C on a portion of the Great Divide and it worked really well on rough roads. In many ways the English saddle bag is superior to the American bikepacking version. I'd love to see someone use lighter materials to reproduce a Nelson Longflap. That would take the cake.

used one exclusively on a nine month, starting in December of '95 ending in August of '96, 12,000 mile tour. gortex top and waterproofed bottom. couple of fiberglass hoops over the head. leaked at seams until i bought some seam sealant in Franconia, VT. then i held up well, even in all-night rain. and is there really any reason to carry shelter at all if it's not raining or the mosquitoes or black flies are not out? fpr the most part i used the bivy as an expensive ground cloth while sleeping or to protect my down bag (stuffed inside it while it was then stuffed inside a stuff sack) from moisture while riding in rain.

i guess there're only for the tough guys. :lol:

Do you have a photo of the bivy rolled up? It weighs slightly more than my complete hammock set up (hammock, but net, rain fly, cords, stakes) but interested to see how it compares size wise.

I got the idea for a tent w/interior hammock. Tent frame would be heavier (CF maybe?) but one would save weight/bulk of sleeping pad/mattress. Allows camping on rougher surfaces.

Or tough women!

I think a bivy may work well for a solo tourer. However, I always tour with my wife. Our bivy sacks weigh 1.25 lb. The two bivy sacks and our sil-nylon tarp are about the same weight as our comfortable 2 person tent. For me it is a no brainer.

Wouldn't this basically be the same as an underquilt? I mean in terms of staying warm and not for the overhead protection. It does weight almost as much as my entire hammock set up. 25 ounces for the underquilt while the hammock, rain fly, bug net and cords combined weigh 30 ounces.

The bivy has it's place. If rain is anticipated I would rather tent or at least tarp&bivy. In the summer, on a trip like through the gulf islands, where rain is uncommon, the bivy is perfect. Mine has mosquito netting and a single pole that bends over the head to create a small space so you can read with a headlamp if you want. At night I bring my shoes inside and put them by my head. It's all about what works in which conditions.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=488161

MD, I had a climbing pack with an interior sleeve so I could put my feet in and pull it up around my legs. Hood up and arms pulled inside the jacket and I could last the night. Coil the rope on the ground for a sitting mat.

About these ultralight tents etc. I'm having trouble finding a sub 2kg 2-3 person tent that also has at least 3000mm water pillar (our current one has 4000mm but I would go higher if I could find one for cheap).
Most of these ultralight things only seem to have 1000mm water pillars which are not nearly adequate in heavy rain. They'll keep you dry in a drizzle but when the heavy rains come I'm really glad we have a truly well waterproofed and windproofed tent. Even if I raise the price ceiling to about $1000 it would seem the best I get is 1500mm