Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Bicycle Mechanics (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=10)
-   -   Is inline barrel adjuster for front derailleur an ABSOLUTE must? (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1179460)

hcgaloi 07-26-19 09:31 PM

Is inline barrel adjuster for front derailleur an ABSOLUTE must?
 
I took a bike to an LBS for a front derailleur adjustment ( Dura Ace 9100). A mechanic took a look and said it didn’t have an inline barrel adjuster. He must install one before anything could be done. Anyway, I bought the bike at another LBS and that how it was setup. So, is it absolute necessary as claimed by the mechanic? Or, was it an up sell?

Thanks in advance

DOS 07-26-19 10:14 PM

No. With 9000 8000 and 7000 series there is tension adjustability built into the derailleur. An inline adjuster can’t hurt but the derailleur can be set up and dialed in without one. I don’t know if I’d call it an upsell since installing an adjuster should only be a matter of a few dollars; more likely the mechanic isnt as familair with 9100 FDs as he should be.

Eggman84 07-26-19 11:13 PM

Per the instructions for a Shimano FD-9100 (https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RAFD001-01-ENG.pdf), an inline barrel adjuster is not needed. The FD has a built-in "cable adjustment barrel" (see page 18). Interestingly enough though, the text says to adjust teh FD using that cable adjustment barrel or a cable adjuster on the frame (whcih would be your inline adjuster).

2_i 07-27-19 12:39 AM

I normally want to have an adjuster in the front that I can adjust while riding. Even when adjusting off the bike, but on the road, you might want to have an adjuster high up, so that you would not need to lean down over and over. My choice would be to to have an adjuster that sticks into the shifter, fom Ritchey or Jagwire.

dsbrantjr 07-27-19 05:47 AM

The adjuster should not any negative effects and as stated earlier it is a convenience. Kind of like chicken soup, it couldn't hurt.

ingo 07-27-19 07:17 AM

An inline adjuster would be a detriment on the DA9100 front derailleur. The adjustment for trim requires that the cable pull screw be used to align two marks on the FD. Using a inline barrel adjuster when the marks are not aligned will result in the derailleur trim being off. This mechanic has never set up the shifting on 9100, or at least not done it correctly.

DOS 07-27-19 05:25 PM


Originally Posted by ingo (Post 21047072)
An inline adjuster would be a detriment on the DA9100 front derailleur. The adjustment for trim requires that the cable pull screw be used to align two marks on the FD. Using a inline barrel adjuster when the marks are not aligned will result in the derailleur trim being off. This mechanic has never set up the shifting on 9100, or at least not done it correctly.

I find that I have to have cable tension on my r8000 front derailleur just beyond where the two marks are perfectly aligned to get shifting and trim where I want it. I can achieve that via either the derailleur screw or the inline shifter (presence of which predates upgrade to r8000 derailleur). But the derailleur is paired with an older 6800 shifter so maybe that has some effect.When I had a 6800 FD I most definitely needed an inline adjuster. In any event, I can get shifting dialed in without too much trouble, and I hardly ever touch the inline shifter now that I can adjust cable tension at the derailleur. So yeah, the mechanic’s advice was basically correct for older model shimano but wrong for 7000/8000/9000.

fronesis 07-27-19 06:07 PM

I’m wary about this mechanic, and not sure I’d trust him with my bike:

1. As others have said, the new 7000/8000/9000 shimano absolutely does not need an inline adjuster.
2. Even on older stuff, while it was certainly *helpful* to have the adjuster, it wasn’t absolutely necessary. I set up 5800 on a bike without an inline adjuster, and had zero problems with it for thousands of miles.

My own experience with a R8000 FD: I followed the Shimano instructions VERY closely and lined up the lines just like they said, and I haven’t had to touch it in over 1000 miles. The trim works perfectly (all 22 gears accessible).

ChinookTx 07-27-19 06:11 PM

Required: No
Nice to have and useful: Definitely

hcgaloi 07-28-19 07:49 AM

Just an update, I took the bike to the original LBS where I bought it (longer drive). The mechanic said shift cables were stretched a tiny bit after initial setup. It took him a couple minutes to fine tune both front and rear derailleurs. He also concurred that 9100 FD has built-in cable tension adjuster, thus, inline ones wasn't needed.

The reason his shop doesn't install inline adjusters to newer Shimano FDs because sometimes they would unwound a little, and some clients had to bring the bike back for minor tightening. It was more hassle then it was worth.

Thanks everyone for your insights... Have fun riding... 8-)

Phil_gretz 07-30-19 06:16 AM


Originally Posted by DOS (Post 21046830)
No. With 9000 8000 and 7000 series there is tension adjustability built into the derailleur...

^this. The built-in adjustment is really pretty slick, as are these FDs.

Winfried 09-25-21 05:15 AM

Hello,

Since it's related, I'll bump up this thread instead of starting a new one.

Provided there's no drawback in adding an extra one, I'd like to add an inline barrel adjuster (Jagwire, Shimano, SRAM, Ritchey, etc.) for use with a Shimano Nexus gear hub because of a custom setup where the embedded adjuster in the shifter is sometimes not enough to take up cable slack. It seems like a better idea on bike trips than having to carry both Shimano's TL-CJ40 Cable Fixing Bolt Tool, and a flat 10mm spanner to move the anchor bolt back to its original position after it slipped a bit down the cable.

Where would you recommend I insert that inline barrel adjuster? Should it be located anywhere before the housing bends (eg. a bit after the barrel adjuster in the shifter), or could it also be placed right before the gear hub cassette joint?

Thank you.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3770c80593.png

sweeks 09-25-21 07:28 AM


Originally Posted by Winfried (Post 22244847)
I'd like to add an inline barrel adjuster (Jagwire, Shimano, SRAM, Ritchey, etc.) for use with a Shimano Nexus gear hub because of a custom setup where the embedded adjuster in the shifter is sometimes not enough to take up cable slack.

You don't need that tool to adjust the cable fixing bolt. Just loosen it and re-position it. There's a specification for how far the bolt should be from the end of the cable housing. Set the shifter adjuster to the middle of its range before re-setting the cable fixing bolt and you'll be set. There is very little change in cable length over time. For example, the Nexus 8 hub on my "winter" bike has about 8,000 miles on it with no adjustment other than a tweak of the built-in adjuster. Same with another bike with an Alfine 11 with almost 10,000 miles on it.

Winfried 09-25-21 08:09 AM

Thank you, but I customized a (folding) bike, and as a result, the bolt tends to move a bit outward after I fold it completely. Adding an inline barrel adjuster seems like an easier fix until I get home and reposition the bolt where it's supposed to be. A bit kludgy, I agree, but better than filing down the frame to fit Shimano's non-turn washers.

Elsewhere, I read that, at least, the adjuster should not be located within a curved section, so I'll set it up right before the cassette joint arm, and see how it goes.

2_i 09-25-21 12:20 PM

The problem with those inline adjusters is that they slip, if not right away then eventually. Better add-on adjusters are those that lock on one side in a barrel or that can be grabbed from two ends. I particularly like the adjusters on the flexible guides such as below.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6a41bcaadf.jpg

Troul 09-25-21 12:36 PM

if you install one, be sure it's in an area where water/sweat & debris/gunk is less likely to build up on it. Usually at the bars & protected from tire kick up is ideal.

sweeks 09-25-21 06:16 PM


Originally Posted by Winfried (Post 22244934)
Thank you, but I customized a (folding) bike, and as a result, the bolt tends to move a bit outward after I fold it completely.

The bikes I mentioned are both folders. Folding should have no effect on the shift cable adjustment if the cable is the (reasonably) correct length and properly positioned.
Just saying...

sweeks 09-25-21 09:25 PM

On second reading...

Originally Posted by Winfried (Post 22244934)
A bit kludgy, I agree, but better than filing down the frame to fit Shimano's non-turn washers.

The non-turn washers fit in the same slot the axle rests in. What filing is required?

Winfried 09-26-21 01:37 AM

It's a Brompton, which, unlike common folders (Dahon, etc.), uses a fork to keep the front wheel attached to the frame… which after my customizing work, pushes down on the cable, with enough force to end up pulling the fixing bolt a bit further away, which messes the indexing. At some point, the barrel adjuster on the shifter is no longer able to take up the cable slack.

Using Shimano's non-turn washers requires filing down the frame to point the cassette joint pulley arm ~ in the right direction, because the original slots are thinner and the washers won't fit.

But I found a simpler work-around: Either moving the hook a bit further away with a flat bracket so it will (almost) not rest on the cable, or I'll simply ditch the hook altogether and use a velcro strap to attach the front wheel to the frame, which isn't a major issue since I actually don't need to fully fold it that often (travel bike).

Thank you!
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...18e847c4b7.png

2_i 09-26-21 08:08 AM

A bamboo type cable housing allows for sharper turns sharper turns in the cable than the standard housing. Maybe such a housing could allow you to move the cable sooner out of the way of the hook. (For those unfamiliar with folders, that hook latches folded parts of the bike together and grabs the rear chain stay effectively from below.) The flexible guide, illustrated earlier, also allows for sharper turns than standard housing, with no impairment to the performance.

sweeks 09-26-21 09:04 PM


Originally Posted by Winfried (Post 22245704)
Using Shimano's non-turn washers requires filing down the frame to point the cassette joint pulley arm ~ in the right direction, because the original slots are thinner and the washers won't fit.

The anti-rotation washers are available with different angles between the axle and the frame slot (see an assortment: Sheldon Brown). The part of the washer that engages the slot is the same width (10mm) as the axle, so there is no need to alter the frame as long as you have the right washers. See attached image of one set of these washers.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0c3a4a22ad.jpg
A pair of Shimano anti-rotation washers for an internally-geared hub. The tab is the same width as the axle slot (10mm).

Winfried 09-27-21 12:59 AM


Originally Posted by 2_i (Post 22245881)
A bamboo type cable housing allows for sharper turns sharper turns in the cable than the standard housing. Maybe such a housing could allow you to move the cable sooner out of the way of the hook. (For those unfamiliar with folders, that hook latches folded parts of the bike together and grabs the rear chain stay effectively from below.) The flexible guide, illustrated earlier, also allows for sharper turns than standard housing, with no impairment to the performance.

Thanks for the info. I missed your post showing those flexible guides. Any brand you would suggest?

Not sure I understand what "Better add-on adjusters are those that lock on one side in a barrel or that can be grabbed from two ends" means and if it'll apply to the Brompton, but that probably won't be a costly experiment anyway.

Since, as shown, Juliane Neuß doesn't use inline adjusters, I assume she moved the hook slightly backward so it rests on the frame without interfering with the housing+cable.

At worst, I can do away with the hook altogether and use a velcro strap since I only use that bike for touring so don't need to fold that often.

It's the only serious issue I've had since replacing the original 2*3 transmission with a Nexus 8 (ignoring the +700g gain that might bother some.)

2_i 09-27-21 03:04 AM


Originally Posted by Winfried (Post 22246739)
Thanks for the info. I missed your post showing those flexible guides. Any brand you would suggest?

I have been using TSG, but there is also Litepro and RISK. I suspect that the brand names are just add-ons. Even if not for the specific application, these guides are useful items to keep around.


Originally Posted by Winfried (Post 22246739)
Not sure I understand what "Better add-on adjusters are those that lock on one side in a barrel or that can be grabbed from two ends" means and if it'll apply to the Brompton, but that probably won't be a costly experiment anyway.

The adjusters consist of two parts that you unscrew or screw together. Those inline usually lock one part against the cable housing and you rotate the other part with fingers. The problem is with that part that is supposed to lock. When it doesn't, you just rotate the adjuster with nothing happening.


Originally Posted by Winfried (Post 22246739)
It's the only serious issue I've had since replacing the original 2*3 transmission with a Nexus 8 (ignoring the +700g gain that might bother some.)

The compromise is common when trying to optimize a folder to one's needs. I have my geared for steep mountains, but the components need to operate outside their design range, leaving thin margins and a need for constant readjustments when the full gear range gets used on a daily basis.

Winfried 09-27-21 05:14 AM

I'll first see if moving the hook slightly outwards with a plate/bracket does the trick; Otherwise, I'll get one of those flexible guides.

Winfried 09-29-21 04:14 AM

Using a flat head screw — not Allen: Its head is bigger and would sit on the cable —, it seems to do the job.

Per your suggestion, I still ordered a flexible guide to experiment.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aaf9fc8a9e.jpg


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:38 PM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.