No love for Giant TCR Advanced SL Line?
 

Please excuse as I’m on my phone and maybe the forum search isn’t as good on mobile...

I just had a chance to ride a Giant TCR Advanced SL 1 and found it to be an excellent ride, very different from my SuperSix Evo. They’re putting the 2019s on sale so, because N+1 is a real thing, I was tempted by a deal I was offered off of the TCR advanced SL 1 Disc.

of course I’m going to give myself a couple of days to think about such a large purchase and consult with the invaluable resource that BF has become for me. But to my surprise when I used the search function I didn’t come up with many hits on this make/model of bike.

Does Giant not have a great rep here at BF? Or is their user base just not as big?

any advice on the make and model would be greatly appreciated!

Great bike. Can't go wrong. Giant styling is personal preference, but i like the Giant shape. My Defy has been solid, but if i was a bit more flexible i would have definitely picked up the comparative TCR.

I think the shape of the Advanced TCR Advanced SL1 suits me better than the SuperSix. I'm trying to do research though on an integrated seatpost. Seems like opinions are pretty polarized on ISPs. I don't really plan on reselling the bike, which is one of the major negatives about it. Are there other drawbacks I'm missing?

The things the TCR Adv SL1 (2019) have going for it that I like:

• The shape/geometry of the small fits my body better than the size 50cm Cannondale, riding it around felt like it was more comfortable and allowed me to transfer more power. Also because the frame is smaller I felt like I could control it better on turns
• The lower handlebar + higher seatpost combo (along with the more sloped top-tube) positioning just felt more amenable to my riding position
• CF handlebars and seat
• Built in power meter (and it's apparently already on, just need a computer, no need to pay an activation fee)
• Their DT Swiss made hubs (wasn't branded DT Swiss but the CSR said they were DT Swiss designed) felt like they rolled better than the Mavics on the OEM SuperSix wheels (and the Bontrager hubs on the Aeolus Pro 3s that I just upgraded to)
• CF 42mm wheels (deeper than my Aeolus Pro3 but not as deep as Pro5)
• Wheels already set up as tubeless (though quality of Giant Gavia AC 0 isn't considered top-tier)
• Full Ultegra Di2 drivetrain including hydro disc brakes--so Giant isn't cutting corners on this build by using in-house (or cheaper brand) non-Shimano drivetrain parts--the only non-Shimano part is the KMC X11SL-1 chain

I think I can negotiate to under $5K (MSRP $5775). Given that the handlebars, saddle, and wheels are all carbon fiber, a complete Ultegra Di2 drivetrain, a power meter (though again, unsure of the quality of Giant's home-built power meter), that doesn't seem like an unreasonable price.

Even if I conservatively estimate a complete Ultegra 8070 Di2 hydraulic groupset at $1750, CF wheels at $1200 (assuming they're on the "affordable" end), and a power meter at $750 (again at the "affordable" end), that's already $3700, which leaves about $1300 for the CF frame, handlebars and saddle.

Oh and the nice thing this place offers is that they include a pro-fit, full 90-120m session on a trainer complete with video and measurements, and tailoring the bike to my ideal riding position.

Crap, I think I'm talking myself into this.

(Begins to wonder what a 2018 SuperSix Evo Di2 Ultegra goes for on Craigslist...)

Giant has come a long way imo the defy is their most popular model though. You really can’t go wrong with giant but 5k on a bike is a bit much do you really need Di2? Personally don’t see a big advantage with di2

I have had an SL TCR and Propel, but in the previous generation (2014).
They are excellent bikes, especially the TCR.
I also like the ISP. As you mentioned one of the downsides is reselling. This is mainly relevant if you are trying to sell it (obviously) but also if your inseam is on the shorter side for that size frame. i.e, you have had to cut the seat mast quite short.
I like Di2 especially when combined with hydro levers as they are slimmer and I prefer them ergonomically and aesthetically to the hydro/mechanical levers.
The Giant power meter has had some reliability issues but they are quite good on their warranties.
Their wheels are a bit on the narrow side as far what is the trend nowadays, but they are still good wheels.

I do see that Defy is their most popular, but the 2019s are all but gone (Advanced Pro 0 level) and the new 2020 model that has come out (Red eTap AXS) is $7800. I'm sure more will come out, especially with an Ultegra Di2 at a lower price, but I don't think I'll be able to get quite as good a deal on it as I can with the outgoing 2019 TCR Adv SL1.

I have to admit, before I got my SuperSix, I was very skeptical about Di2. Now, it's hard for me to consider buying a new bike without electronic shifting.

The frame size seems to be right for me, so I don't think they'd have to cut off too much, but thanks for the advice re: frame sizing and ISPs--I wasn't aware of that potential pitfall!
That's a bummer to hear about the power meter issues, but they better be good on their warranties for premium priced bikes (as I would expect from all manufacturers that play in the over $5K range). Yeah the 25mm tires is a little narrower than I usually run (Conti 5K tubeless 28mm) but the CSR said the wheel set should be able to accommodate up to 30mm. That was an odd size since I think 32mm is the next most popular size over 28mm. But I can make do with 28mm once I wear through the stock tires.

One thing I am thinking of doing. I made several upgrades to the SuperSix (wheels, crankset), which I can reverse and put all the original stock items on to re-sell it, and then have some swapping options with the TCR.

• Aeolus Pro 3s (these replaced the Mavic aluminum wheels) - I can keep wider tires on there, and install an alternate rear cassette size for climbing
• Ultegra 50/34 170mm crankset + HG901-11 chain (these replaced the 56/32 FSA chainrings and Cannondale SI cranks and HG601 chain); again to possibly pair with the Pro 3 + larger cassette for climbs

Most of the time I'd be riding the stock config of the TCR, but if I ever decide to do a weekend excursion to someplace with some serious inclines...I'll be ready to go.

Isn't another potential pitfall, wanting to change saddles ever? That is to say, I've had saddles vary in their height (rails to sitting surface) by 5-6mm. Another pitfall, shoes with lower/lesser stack height to the pedal, or even wanting to switch pedal systems themselves? Another pitfall, changing brand of bibs to one with more/lesser chamois padding? oh, the horror, the horror

You should get a set of spacers with an ISP bike. You might have it cut a little on the short side, and use a spacer or two straight up.

OP probably doesn't have your access to really great deals:rolleyes:

I was initially wondering the same thing too. As Kimmo mentioned you do get a set of spacers to give you about "20mm" of wiggle room, is what the LBS CSR told me. The good news is that the saddle that comes with the TCR seems to feel about the same in terms of padding and height as the saddle I'm using now, the Bontrager Montrose Pro, which is an "agressive posture 2" according to Bonty, and has pretty minimal padding.

The other good news is that I've found a set of go-to cycling shorts and have bought quite a few of them (Louis Garneau Optimums) so I'm hoping not to change out too often. If the line is discontinued once they need replacing, I'll shop around and try to find a similar style/feel/chamois size because I really like these. These let me ride on any of my bikes/saddles in comfort (my fitness bike has a "posture 4" saddle).

But the "permanence" of cutting a seatpost is probably why they include a pro-level fit with the purchase. He's going to have me on the trainer for at least 90m to observe not just "how I think" I ride, but how "I actually ride" because I may get on a bike and ride one way in the first X number of minutes, but once I get a good sweat going and the muscles start working, and then tired, my body tends to go into the actual position I spend most of my time riding in. :D

Try to choose a saddle you like and that has a low profile from the rails to the top. Then you are cutting the minimum amount from the ISP.
Also check the tyre clearance on them. I am not sure if there is enough for 28s, especially a big 28.

You might not be able to swap the wheels because the Evo has a thru-axle front and a QR rear wheel and it looks like the Giant is thru axle front and rear.

Sound advice, will do!

The Bontrager Aeolus Pro 3s came with TA for both front and rear and I had to purchase different end caps for compatibility with the rear 9x135 QRs. The shop gave me the original end caps that support 12x142 TA in the rear, so hopefully I'll just need to swap those out.

Giant has a great reputation, and they make great bikes. Given the TCR's long standing reputation as a great race bike, I'd jump on a end of model year sale if I liked how it rode and I had a good local Giant dealer. I bought my Propel on an end of model year deal, and considered a TCR. If I lived in the mountains I would have gone TCR.

I have a 2019 TCR Advanced Pro 0. Excellent bike, excellent deal. My power meter works just fine. Heard people complaining about traveling with the SL models in larger sizes but not a relevant issue for me. Having said that I picked the Pro because they said there's not a lot of performance difference between Pro and SL and didn't want to risk just in case I have to travel w the bike. Also, Giant customer service is one of the best. GET IT!

Can I ask how you find the ride on the Propel? I know it's an aero bike and so stiffer than the TCR. I live in an area with not-so-great paved streets (I guess this part of LA has so much car traffic that they can't re-pave often enough). Before I rode the TCR and loved it, I was thinking my next bike might be an aero bike. So I was thinking of trying out the Propel when I head back to the shop, but am interested in your take on it?

Don't put too much stock in the "aero bikes are stiff and ride rough" hype. My Propel rides great, is comfortable enough for me to ride 7-8000 miles a year with a substantial percentage of those miles being on rural highways in a wide variety of conditions. I test rode it side by side with a TCR and the primary subjective difference was a little weight (less than a half lb if I remember correctly). Both rode well enough that I made my decision based on the fact that I spend more time in the wind than I do climbing.

Compared to a Defy (my first Giant road bike), the aggressive geometry of the TCR and the Propel were a big adjustment, but in an A/B comparison, the differences are subtle.

You really should ride them side by side. There is no substitute for personal experience.

Most definitely! Will ride both at Giant hopefully tomorrow. Also going to try and get a Madone ride in tonight if I can for a point of reference.

the value prop of the Giants though are compelling, with Ultegra Di2, power meter and pro fitting.

The Madone is also a great bike, but if I had a choice between two great bikes and one of them had Di2, I'd go for Di2 every time.

Be sure to make your test rides long enough to really get a feel for the bike.

Completely disagree my friend, I always thot Di2 was a luxury until I had a bike with Di2. It's a must-have if you are a serious cyclist and the OP sounds like one.

I just found out my local Trek LBS has a 2020 Madone SL7 in my size. Not sure if it's built or ready to ride, but I'll swing by in hopes that it is. That is a Di2, and MSRP is $1300 less than the Propel Adv SL1. But...it doesn't use Trek's best CF, that's the SLR line, and is 18lbs and change for the 56cm frame (I'm in the 52 range) so it may be about 1.5lbs heavier than the Propel. It does not have the integrated seatmast though, which may explain, along with the lower level CF, the added weight. I'm not super-wedded to the power meter, and if Giant isn't discounting the Propel, and they ride very similar, I might opt for the Madone, save some cash, and go without the ISP. This is of course assuming I end up wanting an aero bike and not just falling hard for the TCR Adv SL1.

I'm trying to become a serious cyclist. I'm serious in that I ride every night for between 9-12 miles, and on weekends usually 15-20 miles each day (unless I'm busy or out of town). But my overall speed and strength is nowhere near where I want it to be. I average around 17mph sustained on flats. I'd like to get that up above 20mph. I also want to get stronger on climbs and inclines.

Giant TCR is their tried and true road bike, and it's a great bike. But for whatever reason, Giant never gained traction as a premium brand and their resale value is quite poor (if that's something you think about). Giant has a very different geo than the Cannondales SuperSix Evo (maybe they made changes to the new 2020 version) - shall I say a bit more relaxed with shorter top tube for the same size.

I know you mentioned you also looking at the Madone, it's quite a different animal altogether. Madone is an aero road bike, in the same category as the Giant Propel. They are typically heavier but more aero optimized. IMHO the Madone is too heavy for what you pay for. Even the Madone 9 series is quite portly.

As far as the price goes, if they are doing a year-end discount, I would expect at least 15-20% off the MSRP, so $5k should be the max you pay, and you should try to negotiate for 20%.

Since you are on the N+1 topic and looking to part some good change, I would encourage you to look at some of the other options out there such as Cervelo R3/R5/S3 (light and responsive, great ride), Specialized Tarmac (light with aero tubes), the new Cannondale SuperSix (more aero than the previous versions).

I'll tell you straight up, you won't be able to get your avg speed over 20mph with that amount of training. I have no idea for how long you wanna average that speed but solo it's friggn hard go up to say low 20s and stay there over an hour even on the flats. Don't really discourage you, just set your expectations right.

The best thing the OP could do for serious training is to get a power meter with the new bike (looks like the Giant TCR has one) and a HR strap, some some FTP test, and find a good power based training program (trainerroad is good source but it's subscription service), or simply read up on Coggan and figure out his own way of training with power. Average speed is meaningless in the overall scheme of things but it will be a byproduct of committed training.

Thanks for the 411. Sad to hear about resale value for Giant but tbh I rarely ever resell things and when I do I’m not really looking to recoup cost, more just looking to offload things I don’t use.

Great advice on bargaining. Turns out the mechanic at my LBS knows the manager at the other dealership so he may come w me tomorrow to see if he can help me secure a better discount.

I will look at those other makes and models you recommend but I really am trying to stay near 5K. I don’t know any local dealers who have sales on Cervelo/Specialized and while my LBS carries Cannondale the new SuperSix is so new and Cannondale raised their prices IIRC that a sale price is unlikely.

I did ride a Madone SLR 6 this evening and yes, it’s fast, but the TCR may be more to my liking. To be fair this Madone was a 54 and I’m really a 50-52 so I’m sure a properly sized Madone would have ridden better. It was surprisingly heavy but also surprisingly compliant. I expect the Propel, being considerably lighter and with the ISP (and no IsoSpeed) will be stiffer and less forgiving of bad roads.

Unless the Propel surprises me tomorrow, the Madone test ride has me willing to give up a little bit of top speed and aero for a bit more of what the TCR Adv SL1 has to offer. The TCR just felt light, snappy in handling, and responsive in both steering and pedaling power, especially when I leave the saddle.