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-   -   Schwalbe G-One Speed, Marathon, or Big Apple for 406? (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1196365)

tomtomtom123 03-23-20 09:59 AM

Schwalbe G-One Speed, Marathon, or Big Apple for 406?
 
I'm currently using 55-406 Big Ben Plus tires with greenguard on my Dahon, and it's time to replace the tires. I have around 3mm of clearance to some parts of the mudguard and fork/stays with these tires, and when I have heavy panniers on the rear rack, there is a persistent creaking sound when going over bumps, and I can't figure out what's causing it. But when I load equally heavy boxes on the rear rack (instead of the panniers), the sound is gone. So I'm not sure if the sound is coming from the tire expanding on the bumps and hitting the mudguard, asymmetric loading of the panniers causing the wheel to twist and cause rubbing, or if the plastic pannier hooks are bending and making the noise. So I don't know whether I should go for narrower tires this time in case there's some rubbing.

I've had 50-406 Big Apple in the past. They had some punctures once in a while from the start, while the Big Ben Plus had none in the first 2 years. Both Big Apple and Big Ben Plus were a little unstable and wobbly on 19c rims, but I now have 26c rims which makes the Big Ben Plus very stable. I don't know if the same benefit of the wider rim will apply to Big Apple. Big Apple is lighter and probably has less rolling resistance.

I've had the 47-406 Marathon Plus in the past, but it was very hard on the bumps. I don't remember if they rolled any better. But I'd go for the regular 47-406 Marathon instead, which has similar puncture resistance as the Big Ben plus.

40-406 G-One Speed, I read that it has much lower rolling resistance, but that it can get more frequent punctures. I guess the narrow 40mm would also be very hard on bumps. There aren't any wider G-one variants for 406. As it's tubeless ready, I also read that it's difficult to seat the bead.

I've since added Schwable Doc Blue (Stans) in the tubes to seal any future punctures, so perhaps the puncture resistance of the tires aren't as significant anymore.

Which of these tires would be recommended for my next replacement?

Nyah 03-23-20 11:56 AM


Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 (Post 21379778)
I'm currently using 55-406 Big Ben Plus tires with greenguard on my Dahon, and it's time to replace the tires. I have around 3mm of clearance to some parts of the mudguard and fork/stays with these tires, and when I have heavy panniers on the rear rack, there is a persistent creaking sound when going over bumps, and I can't figure out what's causing it. But when I load equally heavy boxes on the rear rack (instead of the panniers), the sound is gone. So I'm not sure if the sound is coming from the tire expanding on the bumps and hitting the mudguard, asymmetric loading of the panniers causing the wheel to twist and cause rubbing, or if the plastic pannier hooks are bending and making the noise. So I don't know whether I should go for narrower tires this time in case there's some rubbing.

I've had 50-406 Big Apple in the past. They had some punctures once in a while from the start, while the Big Ben Plus had none in the first 2 years. Both Big Apple and Big Ben Plus were a little unstable and wobbly on 19c rims, but I now have 26c rims which makes the Big Ben Plus very stable. I don't know if the same benefit of the wider rim will apply to Big Apple. Big Apple is lighter and probably has less rolling resistance.

I've had the 47-406 Marathon Plus in the past, but it was very hard on the bumps. I don't remember if they rolled any better. But I'd go for the regular 47-406 Marathon instead, which has similar puncture resistance as the Big Ben plus.

40-406 G-One Speed, I read that it has much lower rolling resistance, but that it can get more frequent punctures. I guess the narrow 40mm would also be very hard on bumps. There aren't any wider G-one variants for 406. As it's tubeless ready, I also read that it's difficult to seat the bead.

I've since added Schwable Doc Blue (Stans) in the tubes to seal any future punctures, so perhaps the puncture resistance of the tires aren't as significant anymore.

Which of these tires would be recommended for my next replacement?

I would think the BigApple would work the same with your rim that the BigBenPlus does. If you only have 3mm of mudguard-clearance with your 55mm BBP though, I would choose the 5mm narrower version of the Big Apple (50-406), just to avoid stuff getting caught up there. A lot of people recommend a minimum of 10mm clearance of the mudguard. The 47-406 (45mm) Marathon classic is 5mm narrower in width than the 50mm BigApple and the difference in height is probably 4mm (the Marathon is a tall tire). So 45mm Marathon would probably give you 12mm clearance of the mudguard. I have experience with both of these tire models, however I can't compare them because they're not on the same rim, nor on the same vehicle.

I don't have experience with the G-One Speed tire, other than I know that the 40-406 is actually only 38mm wide.

tyrion 03-23-20 12:18 PM

The G-One Speed is almost a racing tire - expensive, fast, and short-wearing.

Pahana 03-23-20 08:27 PM

I don't have experience with them but the Maxxis Bmx race tires look nice. I like the Big Apple and the Super Moto but the Super Moto flats a lot. I think in the future of trying the Maxxis Torch or DTH as the Super Moto flats every other ride.

Jipe 03-24-20 03:45 AM

Your current Big Ben Plus is a balloon tire with a puncture protection similar to the one of the Marathon Plus but a little bit thinner.

The Big Apple is a balloon tire without special puncture protection, you will probably have (much) more flats than with the Big Ben Plus but a similar comfort and behavior (the number of flats depend a lot where you are riding, if the roads are clean or not, if you ride on trails...).

The Marathon green guard has a good puncture protection but different and less effective than all Plus tires from Schwalbe (Big Ben Plus Marathon Plus...). Its puncture protection is much better than the one of the Big Apple. But its a hard tire, the comfort will be lower than with any balloon tire and similar to the one of the Marathon Plus. About the Marathon Plus, its now the second generation, which has a better rolling and comfort than the first generation.

The G-one Speed is a totally different type of tire. Its a tubeless speed road/gravel tire much less strong than the Marathon and even the Big Ben Plus. But also much faster. Its puncture protection is good when mounted as a tubeless with Doc Blue or Stan's Notube sealant but you would need TL compatible rims to mount it tubeless. Mounted with an inner tube, its puncture protection will be limited.

tomtomtom123 03-24-20 07:39 PM

Is doc blue Stans really not as effective in tubes?

I was leaning towards big Apple with tubes and sealants, but I do remember how I frequently got punctures every 500km on tour.

Otherwise I'd probably go back to big Ben plus but I'll have to do some experiments to find out what the sound is coming from. If not then marathon regular. The marathon plus is heavier and probably rolls worse than regular marathon.

Jipe 03-25-20 03:36 AM

No, the Doc Blue (which is made by Stan's Notube) isn't meant for tube.

There are some products made for tubes but their effectiveness is very limited, much more limited than the sealant in TL tires.

On some bikes its possible to slightly move the mudguards to increase the clearance.

Is performances isn't your main goal, the Big Ben Plus is the best choice.

There was also a Big Apple Plus, also 55x406, but slightly thinner than the Big Ben Plus. You can maybe find some NOS of these tires ?

tomtomtom123 03-25-20 11:08 PM


Originally Posted by Jipe (Post 21382562)
No, the Doc Blue (which is made by Stan's Notube) isn't meant for tube.

There are some products made for tubes but their effectiveness is very limited, much more limited than the sealant in TL tires.

On some bikes its possible to slightly move the mudguards to increase the clearance.

Is performances isn't your main goal, the Big Ben Plus is the best choice.

There was also a Big Apple Plus, also 55x406, but slightly thinner than the Big Ben Plus. You can maybe find some NOS of these tires ?

Big Apple Plus is not in production anymore, and from what I remember, I thought it was heavier than the Big Ben Plus, which was why I originally went for the Big Ben Plus at the time. Schwalbe advertises the Doc Blue Stans as useful for tubes. I think there was some blog person who tested this with a nail, puncturing both a tubeless tire and a tire with tube, both with Stan and some other products inside, then measuring the amount of pressure loss after the sealant closed the hole. But I don't remember the results or the link to the blog.

Jipe 03-26-20 03:30 AM

Yes, the Big Apple plus are not in production anymore but you could maybe find some new old stock.

The pattern on the tire is different and sightly thinner from what I saw when replacing a Big Apple Plus by a Big Ben Plus.

tomtomtom123 03-26-20 06:57 PM

I did maintenance on my old Speed that had the old Marathon Plus 47-406 and took it for a short ride. It felt faster than my currently in use bike with Big Ben Plus 55-406, although it may be due to the more outstretched position and lighter weight from not having all the extra accessories. Maybe I'll try swapping the tires one day onto the current bike to test if the hardness is acceptable.

Falconista 03-30-20 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 (Post 21385427)
I did maintenance on my old Speed that had the old Marathon Plus 47-406 and took it for a short ride. It felt faster than my currently in use bike with Big Ben Plus 55-406, although it may be due to the more outstretched position and lighter weight from not having all the extra accessories. Maybe I'll try swapping the tires one day onto the current bike to test if the hardness is acceptable.

Would be great if you could time yourself on a quick rolldown test or on your regular spin round the block before and after you change the tyres. Really interesting to see if the speed difference is real or just in the impression.

bartsav 05-14-20 08:50 AM

See Continental. Double Foghter III for example.

tomtomtom123 05-14-20 10:23 PM

I never did change my tires. I found out the cause of the rubbing noise was the panniers folding inward at the bottom when there are heavy and small objects in them, making them touch the tire. So it wasn't the big Ben plus tire clearance.

Whether or not the marathon would be faster than the big Ben plus, I don't know, but the big Ben plus are more comfortable on brick roads.


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