Not really what rubik is saying though, is it? He isn't questioning that you have successfully done it for three weeks, he is pointing out that at some point your body will break down and you will need rest.

Not bad, no. A great example of how short-term gains can work.

As others have pointed out, though, at a given level of "harshness" of training, at some point the body tells us it's had enough and needs additional recovery time, additional sleep, whatever. As you'll likely find out, over time, this generally comes in waves. We stretch our limits, the limits get shown to us by our bodies via being forced to dial it back a bit for awhile, then we stretch the limits yet again (likely at a different/higher level) ... and so on. Keep doing that, and in time overall performance improves, strength and stamina improves, recovery times continue to shrink.

But, all but certainly, you'll find that those "waves" keep occurring whenever there's an imbalance that the body needs to correct, at a given level. The hard part is, it is different for each person, and it'll vary based on how hard for how long we've pushed somewhat beyond limits, along with how effective our sleep and nutrition has been. Push hard enough, for long enough, and your body will "talk" to you when it needs more: sleep, food, water, rest, some other activities, whatever. Might be in a week or two; might not be for months. Depends on how pushy you're being with those limits, wherever those limits are, and how much slack you've got before reaching those limits. You might well be in a slack zone, where you've still got plenty of gap between where you're at and what your body's easily capable of; hence, the apparent across-the-board improvements.

Just keep pushing, keep going, and at some point your body will tell you when it's had enough and needs a day or more of "additional" recovery you hadn't planned on. It's how it works.

You don't know what you don't know.

Oh, that explains it!

Then yes, you will continue improving indefinitely. 2024 Olympics?

cube,

The best indicator of performance is performance itself. So far you haven't really listed anything to indicate any lift in cycling performance.

Even without anything sophisticated at all, even something as simple as a stopwatch or gps lap timer you could time yourself up a hill climb or something and track it.

The anecdotes make us feel good about ourselves, but to really know the training is effective..........you have to have something to know it is working. Objectively.

If I don't have a current specific thing to do.......my 45min to hour that the kids get their junky show to watch before bed....I'll go ride. I can't handle the slapstick. I warmup out of the neighborhood then pretty much hold it SS the rest of the time. SS isn't a completely "all you can eat buffet" zone, but it's a good zone to accumulate a lot of fitness while not really requiring the same amounts of recovery as other zones will.

But, my advice....figure out some meaningful way to track progress. A wind neutral Strava segment, power, something.

Sure, your lower resting HR might be nice......but it isn't performance itself. We had a guy on the A group ride that used to brag about a 45bpm resting HR online. Whoo hooo. Dude got dropped like a rock in a lake every time we went over the part of the ride with lots of surges.

You should consider that if you go as hard as you can one day, then feel totally recovered the next day, and are able to go as hard as you can the next day and every day....

Then you aren’t going as hard as you really can. It may feel like it. But if you structured yourself ride differently, you would be at and even higher effort level that would require recovery.

That said, if you’re happy and making progress, I can see why you wouldn’t change anything.

Im the OP and I mentioned rhr.

But I mentioned it in the context of a measure of fitness improvement over time as mine has steadily lowered from 65+ to under 50.

I never said that, stand alone, it is any measure of capability on the bike and especially not relative to measuring performance against other cyclists.

I also mentioned that I can simply measure improvement by, over time: increasing cadence in a gear, advancing to a bigger gear, and then increasing cadence in that gear.

But, after creating this thread and all of the constructive feedback, I’m ready to structure my training and how I measure and improve it with some more current tools ; )

Mine is 41 and a friend wouldn't believe me so grabbed my wrist and checked for himself. Quite literally transferred my e-peen to the real world.

I didn't have that at 22

30 MPH sprints on a 40 pound MTB with big knobby tires, an added aero drag and bad chopped up roads with heavy traffic ??...Are you sure ??

Adding extra weight to the frame of a bike isn't going to make handling safer or improve braking performance. It will do the opposite. A loaded bike is a lot more sluggish and more difficult to handle and maneuver than a lighter bike. A 40+++ pound bike travelling at 25 MPH is also going to take longer to stop than a 25 pound bike travelling at 25 MPH.

Yeah, I'm kinda out at this point for this topic! Haha. We're now into the land of things we often hear on BF that I don't care to get into and don't care to feed.

Moderation note: The thread is getting off topic. cubewheels you have your own thread in Training and Nutrition about your training. Please take further discussions concerning your training to that thread. I get that your short duration training has applicability to this thread but it is now dominating the discussion and not adding much value. Thanks.

Back to 1:15 training for fitness...I did a VO2 / ANO2 workout this AM on the TT bike that included a 1’ interval.

Warmup and then...3x(2’ VO2 effort, 3’ z2, 1’ ANO2, 2’ z2, 2’ VO2) 5-8 minutes rest between intervals. This yields 15’ of VO2 / ANO2 efforts with lactate overload and ability to process lactate on the z2 efforts. The key to doing these is not to over cook the first set and save the most effort for the last set and to accelerate on the efforts versus blast the start and have power fall off over time.

Ok, ok, thanks to you fine gents, I did my first 40/20 set.

I wimped out and still did my 30 minutes of progressive warm up. Then I did my 2, one-minute sprints with a few minutes in between (including a good hill) each.

Then, I did 10, 40/20. I liked it, got to get the hang of it more but just happy I could do it.

Then about 10 minutes of strong effort, then few minutes cool down.

Im going to keep easing into these.

I think next ride I’ll cut the warmup down to 15 minutes. Then do one lap with my one-minute sprints. Then 2 sets of 10 of the 40/20.

Then my usual last 15 minutes.

And I’ll keep working to get my training more structured like you guys recommend.

*edit, feeling a nice leg burn/pump just off that one set. Guess I’m getting sucked into real cycling training!

Whats next? Power meters, matching outfits, understanding what a seemingly random set of numbers and letters strung together actually means? (ie. 3’ z2, 1’ ANO2, 2’ z2,)

😂

Thanks again guys....I think ; )

Sorry about the shorthand. ANO2 is anaerobic so that is your 1 minute interval that can be has hard as you can push for 1 minute but may be less. VO2 is the level of effort between the maximum one minute effort and the maximum effort you can do for 5 minutes. Z2 is zone 2 or an endurance effort which is the effort that you could do for a couple of hours.

Thanks, so you do 3 sets of these..(2’ VO2 effort, 3’ z2, 1’ ANO2, 2’ z2, 2’ VO2) with 5-8 minutes rest between intervals.

Do you rest between the VO2, z2, ANO2, and VO2 efforts?

Sorry, I’m confused on if you rest between each of those efforts or you rest between the full sets? Or you rest between both the efforts and between each set?

Does my question make sense?

Kicked it up a notch today.


Warmed up harder for 15 minutes

Did 10 x 40/20
Did 2 of my one-minute *alls to the wall sprints with a few minutes in between rest. I raced this guy on one, he was cool, just kept a half wheel ahead of me to push me, lol
Did 10 x 40/20

Cruised easy for a couple of minutes.

So, actually one less lap, took about an hour but clearly much more demanding and focused. I liked it. I’m just happy I didn’t keel over, you worry when you’re “older” and try new things how your body will respond and I was happy it seemed up for the challenge,

Now, I can mix it up with some other intervals and sets.

This is crazy! Thank you all for giving me that push and all the guidance ; )

Back when I was running hard, years ago, I often trained with a guy like that. He was darned good, at the collegiate level. I could never touch him in a race, but could with much of the training. Hard, for me. And, yes, as you describe, he was pretty good at staying just a step ahead. "LOL" wasn't what I was thinking at the time, but you play the hand you're dealt.

Sounds like it's working well for you. Just watch your recovery, to ensure you get enough, given these tougher sets. Older pharts gotta stick together.

Ha, back in the day I played Competitive sports I definitely took it harder if someone’s just better than you.

but now the whole notion of me racing anything is hysterical, even while it’s happening ; )

Many thanks, yes, I only ride every other day, eat a lot, good sleep, and listen to what my body is saying. I may be doing sprint type intervals now but fitness, overall, is a marathon effort for me.