Originally Posted by GlennR
(Post 21178005)
Most e-bikes weight 40+lbs and can do 30mph for miles.
Not many humans can propel a 40+lbs bike faster than 30mph for very long. |
Originally Posted by livedarklions
(Post 21178120)
And the kinetic energy of a vehicle increases with the square of the speed, so that 40 pound vehicle is going to pack a lot more wallop at 30 mph than 20.
I guess I underestimated their heft. |
Originally Posted by Ogsarg
(Post 21178032)
When you look at the weight including the rider, the difference in bike weight isn't that significant and if weight is the concern, then a 140 pound rider on a 40 pound e-bike is less dangerous than a 200 pound person on a 16 pound non e-bike.
As far as how long the speed can be maintained, I don't see that as being all that relevant. https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calcu...cs/kinetic.php |
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I've held 30 MPH for a short distance on a flat trail. 230 pound Clydesdale riding a 20 pound bike.
E Bikes, get outta my way! :D |
Git off my lawn!!!!!---er--bike path!!!!!!
FYI I dont have an E-bike. |
Originally Posted by GlennR
(Post 21178114)
Can you ride 30mph for any distance on a flat road?
I can't unless i'm going down an incline. But everyone can do 30mph on a e-bike. |
I've heard that some people can keep up 60+ mph on 5000+ lbs vehicles all day long. Sure, they need to get a license, but my test was held entirely within a parking lot, so yeah.
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
(Post 21178136)
Longer you go at 30 mph, the higher the likelihood you're going to hit something at 30 mph. And if you don't understand why speed matters so much, try playing around with this:
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calcu...cs/kinetic.php If people want to say no bikes of any kind should go 30MPH on the street or MUP, I'm fine with that. But if you say it's fine for me to go as fast as I want but not the person on the e-bike, then I have to disagree. |
Originally Posted by Ogsarg
(Post 21178210)
I never said speed didn't matter. What I said was the longer you can maintain that speed is irrelevant. If the 200 pound guy on the 16 pound bike happens to hit a pedestrian during the 30 seconds he is traveling at 30MPH, it's going to do just as much or more damage as the 160 pound guy on the 40 pound e-bike doing the same speed. The fact he can't sustain that for a long time isn't going to make it hurt any less.
If people want to say no bikes of any kind should go 30MPH on the street or MUP, I'm fine with that. But if you say it's fine for me to go as fast as I want but not the person on the e-bike, then I have to disagree. And just to get real world about it, I'm pretty sure people who can maintain 30 mph under their own power will, on average, be lighter than people who do it on a powered bike. As to the distinction, the line between motor vehicles and ebikes has to be drawn somewhere. Human-power peaks out at about 30 mph, motor power can go much higher. The real question isn't whether ebikes can be allowed to go more than 30 mph, it's whether someone should be allowed to operate a motorized vehicle at that speed without a license. And, just as an aside, what percentage of bicyclists can actually maintain 30 mph on the flat under their own power? The potential number of ebikers who could do so would only be limited by the availability of the ebikes. Requiring someone get a license to ride under their own power at 30+ mph is a regulatory nightmare to regulate an incredibly small number of people. |
What's the speed cutoff between 'it's all good' and 'omg the world is falling apart'?
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Originally Posted by PepeM
(Post 21178228)
What's the speed cutoff between 'it's all good' and 'omg the world is falling apart'?
You tell me--is 30 mph too low? 40? 50? 60? |
Considering how easy it is to get a drivers license in the U S of A, I am not sure why even bother.
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Originally Posted by Ogsarg
(Post 21178210)
I never said speed didn't matter. What I said was the longer you can maintain that speed is irrelevant. If the 200 pound guy on the 16 pound bike happens to hit a pedestrian during the 30 seconds he is traveling at 30MPH, it's going to do just as much or more damage as the 160 pound guy on the 40 pound e-bike doing the same speed. The fact he can't sustain that for a long time isn't going to make it hurt any less.
If people want to say no bikes of any kind should go 30MPH on the street or MUP, I'm fine with that. But if you say it's fine for me to go as fast as I want but not the person on the e-bike, then I have to disagree. |
Originally Posted by caloso
(Post 21178261)
The rider who can do 30mph under his own power likely has much better bike handling skills, not to mention a much more maneuverable bike, than the ebike rider.
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Originally Posted by Ogsarg
(Post 21178331)
Kind of like having a different speed limit for the Ferrari owner because he's more likely to have better driving skills. .
Originally Posted by Ogsarg
(Post 21178331)
And as for the bike, I think it's very possible the e-bike could be better in terms of quick handling. Possibly wider bars for better leverage, wider tires with more grip, likely to have better brakes, etc.
Regardless, the OP is whining about something that is no big deal. |
Originally Posted by Ogsarg
(Post 21178331)
Not sure about that but don't see it as relevant either. Kind of like having a different speed limit for the Ferrari owner because he's more likely to have better driving skills. And as for the bike, I think it's very possible the e-bike could be better in terms of quick handling. Possibly wider bars for better leverage, wider tires with more grip, likely to have better brakes, etc.
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And it's possible the e-bike rider is an ex motorcycle racer, highly skilled at handling a 2-wheel powered vehicle. It's also possible the guy doing 30 on his bike just came down a 15% grade and he has very limited riding skills.
All I'm saying is that if you start saying that you want to regulate, license, insure, people because they can go faster than you'd like, you need to apply that to everyone. A few years ago I was in Tel Aviv for the first time in 10 years and was shocked to see how many e-bikes there were. They far out numbered regular bikes and I would venture to say probably a hundred times more per capita than you'd find in any American city. Saw them on the streets, the walking paths by the sea, even saw a few on the freeway during heavy traffic. I asked some people about it and they said there certainly were some problems. The occasional pedestrian getting hit, but mostly it was the e-bikes hitting cars and hurting themselves. There was talk about heavily restricting them but generally people would rather see more people on e-bikes than in cars and considering how bad the traffic is in that city, I'd have to agree. FWIW, I didn't see any e-bike related incidents in the 5 days I was there. |
So it doesn't matter if it has a motor, it's a bicycle as long as it has pedals?
https://cdn.hswstatic.com/gif/1905-h...davidson-3.jpg |
I don't think that you could reach 30 mph on that one...
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Originally Posted by PepeM
(Post 21178260)
Considering how easy it is to get a drivers license in the U S of A, I am not sure why even bother.
I could write a blog about their incompetence and the lies they tell. |
Originally Posted by Ogsarg
(Post 21177993)
Why is going 30MPH on an e-bike more dangerous than you going 30MPH on a human powered bike? If they should be licensed and insured, then all bikes/riders capable of 30MPH should be also. In my estimation, it comes down to being responsible. You may say that e-bike riders are more likely to be irresponsible but there are plenty of bike riders that are as well. Punish the bad actors and leave the responsible people alone.
Not sure if it is still true but years ago, mopeds did not require a license in most places. The e-bike is the moped of today. Should there be some rules and guidelines? Of course. Flawed analogy time. R/C planes used to require smarts to build and had a learning cliff and needed sense to operate safely. Now every idiot everywhere is flying the computer-stabilized quad copter over airports and military bases and peeping-toming on their neighbors property.
Originally Posted by PepeM
(Post 21178006)
50cc scooters are able to be ridden, unlicensed and unregistered, pretty much everywhere, and that has been the case for a long time. I didn't hear [m]any people moaning about that, so why do e-bikes have so many knickers in a twist all of a sudden?
EDIT: Missed the second page, where others have already covered this. BTW...I have two coworkers with "50CC" mopeds. They have the gearhead smarts to know the retrofit they bough is no-way-on-Earth "50CC" and is actually more like 75-100CC. They know it, they brag about it and laugh about it. Most of those "50CC" or "49CC" engines have massive finger-quotes around them. |
Originally Posted by KraneXL
(Post 21178721)
Have you been to the DMV lately?
I could write a blog about their incompetence and the lies they tell. |
Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
(Post 21178734)
BTW...I have two coworkers with "50CC" mopeds. They have the gearhead smarts to know the retrofit they bough is no-way-on-Earth "50CC" and is actually more like 75-100CC. They know it, they brag about it and laugh about it. Most of those "50CC" or "49CC" engines have massive finger-quotes around them.
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Originally Posted by PepeM
(Post 21178762)
I have. Last year when I moved to a new state. Brought my motorcycle only license from my previous state (I did not have a drivers license) and they gave me a brand new drivers license. I am glad that they are incompetent, saved me the trouble of taking the exam(s).
Government bureaucracy is one reason they don't fear any reprisals. They know patrons have to go through a lot of levels to get any mistakes and poor service addressed. In any event, they've gotten a lot of complaints lately. |
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