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-   -   Tubeless touring? (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1129977)

Rob_E 12-13-17 10:22 AM


Originally Posted by Andrew1240 (Post 20049838)
I'm sure tubeless is fine if you're touring somewhere you're not too far from a bike shop, but I would not want to take them to Central Asia or somewhere. Sure, they'll probably be fine, but if they're not...

...you put in a tube.

JohnJ80 12-13-17 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by Rob_E (Post 20050249)
...you put in a tube.

:lol: Exactly.

What's really interesting is the new kits that allow you to plug a puncture in a tubeless tire without removing the tire. Similar process to plugging a puncture in a car tire. Dynaplug, and Blackburn that I know of offering kits that do this and they work well. Others on their way, I'm sure. You'll be on your way quickly.

J.

rifraf 12-13-17 04:53 PM


Originally Posted by JohnJ80 (Post 20050626)
:lol: Exactly.

What's really interesting is the new kits that allow you to plug a puncture in a tubeless tire without removing the tire. Similar process to plugging a puncture in a car tire. Dynaplug that I know of offering kits that do this and they work well. Others on their way, I'm sure. You'll be on your way quickly.

J.

Synchronicity
I had the very kit recommended to me yesterday by a friend on a local touring forum prompting me to seek out and buy one.
I dug out a couple of 406 tubes to split in anticipation of finding someone with a compressor, now that I've bought some Stans latex.
I'm hoping for a good result in my experiment of ghetto tubeless without tubeless specific tires or rims.

msbiker 12-13-17 06:23 PM


Originally Posted by rifraf (Post 20051202)
Synchronicity
I had the very kit recommended to me yesterday by a friend on a local touring forum prompting me to seek out and buy one.
I dug out a couple of 406 tubes to split in anticipation of finding someone with a compressor, now that I've bought some Stans latex.
I'm hoping for a good result in my experiment of ghetto tubeless without tubeless specific tires or rims.

I think the issue you will have is with the non-tubeless tires. You can seal up the rims with gorilla tape, but have consistently failed on tires that were not tubeless specific. I Hope your attempt goes better!

rifraf 12-13-17 07:06 PM


Originally Posted by msbiker (Post 20051334)
I think the issue you will have is with the non-tubeless tires. You can seal up the rims with gorilla tape, but have consistently failed on tires that were not tubeless specific. I Hope your attempt goes better!

Not as much as I do:lol::lol::lol:

In what manner did they fail?

msbiker 12-14-17 10:25 AM

I never could get the bead on non-tubeless tires to properly set on non-tubeless rims. Plus, I think non-tubeless tires are more prone to weeping. I have successfully used tubeless tires on non-tubeless rims.

nickw 12-14-17 03:05 PM


Originally Posted by JohnJ80 (Post 20050175)
YES - thank you. We agree on the tubeless nature of the tubulars that I use being a benefit in avoiding flats. I'm glad you now agree that the tubeless nature of my tires contributed to the marked improvement in flats. Seems to me that strongly supports my argument for tubeless tires while touring. Not the only choice certainly, but a very good choice. Please note that was part of my argument above.

FWIW, I did get pinch flats and those have been eliminated with tubeless clincher tires and with tubulars (I have also run tubed tubulars and have never gotten a pinch flat with them either). I did get pinch flats on occasion with tubed clinchers.




I have two bikes that are virtually the same weight, or at least that I have set up that way. One has a heavier frame and I equipped it with my significantly lighter wheels and tires. The other has a lighter frame and I equipped it with my somewhat heavier wheels and tires. Difference between wheel sets with tires is about 400g. I then rode the same relatively hilly routes multiple times and compared them through Strava. Without question, there was a speed benefit to using the lighter wheels. Same weight bikes only difference was moving weight from wheels to frame. If you want to run heavier wheels, far be it from me to tell you otherwise and I wouldn't presume to. I am very comfortable with my choice.



I'm not skimping, quite the opposite.

Technical FAQ: Does wheel weight matter? | VeloNews.com

JohnJ80 12-14-17 05:51 PM


Originally Posted by nickw (Post 20052987)

Yes. I understand all of that. I'm an engineer. And the point is made where there is never a constant acceleration, but a series of continual accelerations (positive and negative) while climbing, there is an impact. I would also expect that the model referenced is almost certainly not accurate there. Where I ride is not level and largely hilly.

There is also the experimental result that I have that I trust. So for whatever reason, I'm faster on average by a significant bit on the lighter wheels than I am on the heavier ones (I think I know the reason). Enjoy your heavy wheels.

J.

nickw 12-14-17 06:28 PM


Originally Posted by JohnJ80 (Post 20053345)
Yes. I understand all of that. I'm an engineer. And the point is made where there is never a constant acceleration, but a series of continual accelerations (positive and negative) while climbing, there is an impact. I would also expect that the model referenced is almost certainly not accurate there. Where I ride is not level and largely hilly.

There is also the experimental result that I have that I trust. So for whatever reason, I'm faster on average by a significant bit on the lighter wheels than I am on the heavier ones (I think I know the reason). Enjoy your heavy wheels.

J.

You obviously have your 'opinions' but don't confuse that with actual science. I'm sure you are faster, but like you say, "for whatever reason"....there are many besides weight of your wheel/tire combo. Peace.

JohnJ80 12-14-17 06:40 PM


Originally Posted by nickw (Post 20053406)
You obviously have your 'opinions' but don't confuse that with actual science. I'm sure you are faster, but like you say, "for whatever reason"....there are many besides weight of your wheel/tire combo. Peace.

Actually, the actual science part of this is very difficult. Modeling the repetitive impact of a "pulsating" acceleration in a rotating mass is probably/almost certainly way beyond the models that are used to provide the data you reference. The simple fact that this is still not completely understood after the many decades of use of the modern bicycle wheel (general form) is a clue.

J.

Darth Lefty 12-14-17 06:44 PM

I’m trying it on my MTB and I’m pleased enough with it I’ll probably convert everything eventually. I’m not so impressed that I’m replacing any current tires or wheels to get it today, though. I just got a new Marathon so it might be a while.

rifraf 12-15-17 12:24 PM


Originally Posted by msbiker (Post 20052350)
I never could get the bead on non-tubeless tires to properly set on non-tubeless rims. Plus, I think non-tubeless tires are more prone to weeping. I have successfully used tubeless tires on non-tubeless rims.

I'm hoping to find time next week to attempt the job.
I'm utilising Velocity Dyad rims which are not tubeless designed.
I am expecting my non tubeless specific tires (Exiwolf 2.3) to weep initially but can only hope they emulate the reports of users who suggest they stop and seal well.
I'm not using the gorilla tape method, but the split tube method.
It remains to be seen what success I may have.
Wish me luck

If a second attempt is needed, I have a litre of Stans and pairs of Schwalbe tires in Big Apple and Mondial flavours.
They are all folding tires from memory.

dim 12-17-17 10:13 AM

:)

to sum it up: those (like me) who have tubeless ready rims can use fast tubeless tyres aswell as normal clinchers

those who have normal wheels cannot (The fastest tyres at this moment, according to bicycle rolling resistance website), are tubeless

I'm very happy with tubeless and use very good (very fast light) tubeless tyres .... I get to places quicker

rifraf 12-17-17 10:15 PM


Originally Posted by dim (Post 20057745)
:)
I get to places quicker

Some folks its about the destination,

Others the journey.

Theres room for all in here

dim 12-18-17 03:44 PM


Originally Posted by rifraf (Post 20058841)
Some folks its about the destination,

Others the journey.

Theres room for all in here

thats why tubeless ready rims is the best for all ....

you can choose what you want to use .... on normal rims you can't :p

rifraf 12-19-17 10:58 AM

Today I split a 406 tube down the middle and used a wet rag to clean what appeared to be talcum powder from the now exposed inner surface of the tube.

It was "fun" to stretch it to go around my 622 Velocity Dyad rim and took me some effort to get it done.

I did my best to make sure the excess that overlapped the edges of the rim, were evenly spaced by manipulating them by hand and then I added the tire.

In this case it was a 2.3 Exiwolf folding tire (not tubeless specific).

I emptied a small bottle of Stans into the tire by lifting a small section of the tire via three levers.

I refilled the small bottle of Stans and used its applicator lid to pour a little fluid around the edges of the tire to help with the sealing process.

I didn't have a compressor but managed to get the tire to blow up using my hand pump.

I put 30 psi into it and proceeded to spin the wheel trying to get the inner surface of the Exiwolf tire and the split tube coated.

I hung the tire on a hook from my garage wall and went indoors to watch TV for an hour.

I just went out to check on it and the tire is still hard.

I gave it a few more spins and have left it hanging again.

Its nearly one am here in Western Australia and I'll check the tire again in the morning to see if its held its air.

Its my first attempt at ghetto tubeless and I'm optimistic at this stage that it'll still be firm and sealed in the morning.

If not, I'll try again.

linus 12-19-17 11:04 AM


Originally Posted by rifraf (Post 20061596)
Today I split a 406 tube down the middle and used a wet rag to clean what appeared to be talcum powder from the now exposed inner surface of the tube.

It was "fun" to stretch it to go around my 622 Velocity Dyad rim and took me some effort to get it done.

I did my best to make sure the excess that overlapped the edges of the rim, were evenly spaced by manipulating them by hand and then I added the tire.

In this case it was a 2.3 Exiwolf folding tire (not tubeless specific).

I emptied a small bottle of Stans into the tire by lifting a small section of the tire via three levers.

I refilled the small bottle of Stans and used its applicator lid to pour a little fluid around the edges of the tire to help with the sealing process.

I didn't have a compressor but managed to get the tire to blow up using my hand pump.

I put 30 psi into it and proceeded to spin the wheel trying to get the inner surface of the Exiwolf tire and the split tube coated.

I hung the tire on a hook from my garage wall and went indoors to watch TV for an hour.

I just went out to check on it and the tire is still hard.

I gave it a few more spins and have left it hanging again.

Its nearly one am here in Western Australia and I'll check the tire again in the morning to see if its held its air.

Its my first attempt at ghetto tubeless and I'm optimistic at this stage that it'll still be firm and sealed in the morning.

If not, I'll try again.

Usually sealing is not an issue with setting tubeless. Burping and resealing are the issues with non-TL rims and tires. Good luck though.

rifraf 12-19-17 11:27 AM


Originally Posted by linus (Post 20061604)
Usually sealing is not an issue with setting tubeless. Burping and resealing are the issues with non-TL rims and tires. Good luck though.

Any tips or is it all down to luck as to it staying up?

I did my best to follow the method outlined here:
Ghetto tubeless conversion DIY: tips and tricks | Ridemonkey Forums

Its my first attempt and so far I'm feeling optimistic given that more than a few people told me I'd need a compressor to get them sealed enough to hold air.

I suppose the proof will be in the pudding as they say and only riding on it will let me know the outcome.

I'll resist any urge to go fast down the hill where I live until it becomes obvious as to whether I might hope for some longevity from the seal.

I've my fingers crossed it'll still be holding air when I get up in about 7 hours tomorrow morning.

nickw 12-19-17 12:38 PM


Originally Posted by rifraf (Post 20061659)
Any tips or is it all down to luck as to it staying up?

I did my best to follow the method outlined here:
Ghetto tubeless conversion DIY: tips and tricks | Ridemonkey Forums

Its my first attempt and so far I'm feeling optimistic given that more than a few people told me I'd need a compressor to get them sealed enough to hold air.

I suppose the proof will be in the pudding as they say and only riding on it will let me know the outcome.

I'll resist any urge to go fast down the hill where I live until it becomes obvious as to whether I might hope for some longevity from the seal.

I've my fingers crossed it'll still be holding air when I get up in about 7 hours tomorrow morning.

Be careful. Everybody's risk tolerance is different so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Even with Tubeless tires, when they let go/burp it can be all at once, I can only imagine if this decides it wants to go it may be catastrophic. Just keep that in mind and don't push it.

It was also written about 7 years ago when the tubeless thing was just gaining steam.

This based on $$ or time restraints?

linus 12-19-17 01:59 PM


Originally Posted by rifraf (Post 20061659)
Any tips or is it all down to luck as to it staying up?

I did my best to follow the method outlined here:
Ghetto tubeless conversion DIY: tips and tricks | Ridemonkey Forums

Its my first attempt and so far I'm feeling optimistic given that more than a few people told me I'd need a compressor to get them sealed enough to hold air.

I suppose the proof will be in the pudding as they say and only riding on it will let me know the outcome.

I'll resist any urge to go fast down the hill where I live until it becomes obvious as to whether I might hope for some longevity from the seal.

I've my fingers crossed it'll still be holding air when I get up in about 7 hours tomorrow morning.

If it holds air, you'll be fine for normal riding. My only concern with it will be if decide to you go down a hill and hit a pot hole or something... Take it easy and you'll be fine I think. You just want to try out TL setup anyway so if you like how they feel, try both TL rims and tires.

rifraf 12-19-17 11:59 PM


Originally Posted by nickw (Post 20061805)
Be careful. Everybody's risk tolerance is different so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Even with Tubeless tires, when they let go/burp it can be all at once, I can only imagine if this decides it wants to go it may be catastrophic. Just keep that in mind and don't push it.

I'll never see my 40's again so have a fairly staid approach to my riding.


Originally Posted by nickw (Post 20061805)
It was also written about 7 years ago when the tubeless thing was just gaining steam.

Yeah, well, I'm a late adapter and like to see everyone else blow their money on the latest and greatest, in order to sort the wheat from the chaff.
This approach has saved me some time and angst when new products don't last the distance.
I still occasionally jump the gun but I'm now better at restraining my emotions when it comes to purchase decisions.


Originally Posted by nickw (Post 20061805)
This based on $$ or time restraints?

Both.
My budget is constrained and my custom (Son28/Rohloff/ Cx-Ray/Dyad) wheels are only 2012 and I want a few more years out of them if I can before forking out once again for new rims/spokes/labour.
Also I wish to tour over the xmas holiday period and waiting times for bike part orders from Europe (bike24 etc) and take some weeks to get to Australia and can be weather dependant regarding delivery times.
The ghetto setup also fits in well with my tightwad nature.

rifraf 12-19-17 11:59 PM


Originally Posted by linus (Post 20061990)
If it holds air, you'll be fine for normal riding. My only concern with it will be if decide to you go down a hill and hit a pot hole or something... Take it easy and you'll be fine I think. You just want to try out TL setup anyway so if you like how they feel, try both TL rims and tires.

The advice sounds sage

Thank you

Sullalto 12-20-17 02:21 AM


Originally Posted by msbiker (Post 20052350)
I never could get the bead on non-tubeless tires to properly set on non-tubeless rims. Plus, I think non-tubeless tires are more prone to weeping. I have successfully used tubeless tires on non-tubeless rims.

Sorry, I just want to make sure I understand.

You've tried non-tubeless tires on non-tubeless rims, set up tubeless-and say it doesn't work?

staehpj1 12-20-17 07:00 AM


... I get to places quicker

Originally Posted by rifraf (Post 20058841)
Some folks its about the destination,

Others the journey.

Yes but there is another aspect to the choice. Some of us enjoy the journey more on tires with the nice road feel that supple sidewalls give; a feeling that is enhanced by running tubeless. This can be true whatever the speed we ride.

For me, running a heavy and stiff tire with thornproof tubes would suck a good deal of the joy out of the ride and that would be true whether I was riding 20 miles per day or 100 miles per day.

Also, in addition to enjoying the supple ride feel, riding faster can enhance the journey. Riding faster isn't necessarily about getting to the destination in a hurry. It can also be about the joy of riding faster.

msbiker 12-20-17 07:34 AM


Originally Posted by Sullalto (Post 20062920)
Sorry, I just want to make sure I understand.

You've tried non-tubeless tires on non-tubeless rims, set up tubeless-and say it doesn't work?

Correct, for me at least. I've used tubeless tires on a non-tubeless rim, using gorilla tape on the rim to run tubeless. That has worked fine. But I never could get non-tubeless tires to run tubeless on a non-tubeless rim. But you might be successful with that. The best bet is, of course, to use tubeless ready tires on a tubeless ready rim.


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