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Ride_Fast 11-01-18 10:23 AM

Training program
 
I've been looking around the web but I couldn't find any information on track training. I was thinking of sharing what I do for training and maybe some of the more experienced people here can give me some advice and show me what your training looks like. There is no velodrome near my area so I go to a park that has a 1 mile round track (flat). This is what my week is like:


I usually make some adjustments depending on how I feel but this is pretty much what it is


Mon - Calisthenics/ Stretching 30-35mins. 20 mile ride under an hour, no water, go hard. So far I can do it in 57mins with a 48x15 ratio, Average speed is about 21-22mph (wind is brutal).


Tue - Calisthenics/ Stretching 30-35mins. Interval training. On this day I try to sprint as fast as I can, stop, recover, pick up speed, repeat. I do this for about an hour.


Wed - Calisthenics/ Stretching/ Weight lifting 40-45mins. On this day I do climbing. there are no hills where i live so I go to a bridge near my house and I climb it 10x.


Thur - Calisthenics/ Stretch 15-20 mins. Rest/ recovery ride (do errands, grocery shopping etc. This is a rest day)


Fri - Calisthenics/ Weight Lifting (full body), Running 1hr 40mins


Sat - Mon training


Sun - Tues training


Rest, Repeat

700wheel 11-01-18 01:16 PM

There are sites related to track training; here are a few:

http://www.ridethetrack.com/pdf/train_rodamaker.pdf
https://www.trackcyclingacademy.com/
Up! Up! Up! ? Up! Up! Up! An introduction to track sprint cycling
https://www.velodrome.shop/index.php...e&page_id=faqs

Nutrition is also an important part of training.

carleton 11-01-18 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by Ride_Fast (Post 20643484)
I've been looking around the web but I couldn't find any information on track training. I was thinking of sharing what I do for training and maybe some of the more experienced people here can give me some advice and show me what your training looks like...

Everyone here has been in your position and it comes up a few times a year. "If it comes up so often, why isn't the answer stickied up top?!" Well, asking about training plans is like asking, "How long is a piece of string?"

It is very, very difficult to prescribe a months long personalized training program via a message board. It just is. Mainly because there are micro, meso, and macro things involved.

- Macro: Your annual plan...or even multi-year plan. Remember, it takes 4 years to become good. It takes 8 years to become great.
- Meso: What your focus is during a particular phase of the year (off season, winter training, pre-season, race season, peaking...etc...) to meet the Macro goals.
- Micro: What you do during a particular workout to meet the Meso goals.


The most you can hope to find on the inernet is for people to paint in very broad strokes and talk in generalities (e.g. "Focus on raw strength in the winter." or "Focus on top speed during the weeks leading up to your big event for the year."

And as 700wheel notes, you may be able to find some generic plans that would benefit most new racers.

That being said, the most effective way to use this forum in particular is to ask specific questions ("Is the XYZ frame available in 60cm?") or for opinions with boundaries ("What do you think of ABC cranks vs XYZ cranks?"). Open-ended questions ("What's the best frame?") usually don't get you the info you are looking for.

I hope this helps.

Baby Puke 11-01-18 04:59 PM

What kind of races do you do on the track?

brawlo 11-01-18 09:05 PM

Firstly, I'm a self classified sprinter, so take whatever I write with a grain of salt, but I've been around the game for long enough now to know a few things.

On the surface, your Monday ride seems like a tempo style effort. Is it on relatively flat ground? Also from what you've posted I'll assume that enduro style races are what you're aiming at.

Intensity is what you want IMO. Solid 45-60min crit style race intensity and the corresponding strength and fitness are what you want if you're aiming to be at the top in track enduro. I watched a friend train for worlds last year. He was absolutely smashing his goals. Strong as hell on a 45min road TT and our club races of up to 45km, but when it came to the track scratch/points/ITT, he was left eating dust. Sure he was strong, but these track events are a different beast at the higher levels and hitting hard and bouncing back to hit hard again and again are what it takes, and you need to train for that. What exactly that involves I can't actually answer, but I'm going to have a crack and say shorter intervals at high intensity with reduced rest once the season draws near. Leading up to that time, just getting fit enough to handle the workouts is what you want, with what you're doing even may be enough for now.

I finally made my ascension into club A-grade and open event B-grade when I was out on the road working my way up to hanging with the fast guys on their early morning bunch ride. There was no holding back on the tempo to keep it together, it was hold on or see you back at the coffee shop. I was my fittest when I became able to consistently hold on for the sprint to the city limits

Ride_Fast 11-02-18 10:43 AM


Originally Posted by 700wheel (Post 20643791)

Thank you for replying. All of the information you provided is very useful, specially the third and fourth link. That's the kind of information I was looking for. Just a general guide as to what kind of exercises these guys do and how much. I realize that it's all relevant to a persons fitness level and that's why it's hard to come up with one training program that fits all. I know something about nutrition so that I won't have a problem with.


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20643968)
Everyone here has been in your position and it comes up a few times a year. "If it comes up so often, why isn't the answer stickied up top?!" Well, asking about training plans is like asking, "How long is a piece of string?"

It is very, very difficult to prescribe a months long personalized training program via a message board. It just is. Mainly because there are micro, meso, and macro things involved.

- Macro: Your annual plan...or even multi-year plan. Remember, it takes 4 years to become good. It takes 8 years to become great.
- Meso: What your focus is during a particular phase of the year (off season, winter training, pre-season, race season, peaking...etc...) to meet the Macro goals.
- Micro: What you do during a particular workout to meet the Meso goals.


The most you can hope to find on the inernet is for people to paint in very broad strokes and talk in generalities (e.g. "Focus on raw strength in the winter." or "Focus on top speed during the weeks leading up to your big event for the year."

And as 700wheel notes, you may be able to find some generic plans that would benefit most new racers.

That being said, the most effective way to use this forum in particular is to ask specific questions ("Is the XYZ frame available in 60cm?") or for opinions with boundaries ("What do you think of ABC cranks vs XYZ cranks?"). Open-ended questions ("What's the best frame?") usually don't get you the info you are looking for.

I hope this helps.

It does help, thank you. Like i mentioned earlier I can imagine that it's all relevant to a persons fitness level and depending on where you're at your training routine will look completely different. It's basically the same for any other sport. I was just curious to know what the experienced guys do for training and what that looks like.


Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 20644119)
What kind of races do you do on the track?

I don't race, however, I do keep up with the fit guys who come out on their road bikes, and the majority of the times I over take them, not because I'm "faster" necessarily but because I just have way more endurance than they do. The track I go to is flat, it's out in the open so the wind it brutal. For me to hold 21-22mph for 20 miles in under an hour (after 20 that's when my back starts to hurt, but just the other day I pushed it to 26 and I completed it in an hour 10 minutes) it takes everything I got.


Originally Posted by brawlo (Post 20644392)
Firstly, I'm a self classified sprinter, so take whatever I write with a grain of salt, but I've been around the game for long enough now to know a few things.

On the surface, your Monday ride seems like a tempo style effort. Is it on relatively flat ground? Also from what you've posted I'll assume that enduro style races are what you're aiming at.

Intensity is what you want IMO. Solid 45-60min crit style race intensity and the corresponding strength and fitness are what you want if you're aiming to be at the top in track enduro. I watched a friend train for worlds last year. He was absolutely smashing his goals. Strong as hell on a 45min road TT and our club races of up to 45km, but when it came to the track scratch/points/ITT, he was left eating dust. Sure he was strong, but these track events are a different beast at the higher levels and hitting hard and bouncing back to hit hard again and again are what it takes, and you need to train for that. What exactly that involves I can't actually answer, but I'm going to have a crack and say shorter intervals at high intensity with reduced rest once the season draws near. Leading up to that time, just getting fit enough to handle the workouts is what you want, with what you're doing even may be enough for now.

I finally made my ascension into club A-grade and open event B-grade when I was out on the road working my way up to hanging with the fast guys on their early morning bunch ride. There was no holding back on the tempo to keep it together, it was hold on or see you back at the coffee shop. I was my fittest when I became able to consistently hold on for the sprint to the city limits

My monday effort is completely flat. Picture a running track, but with a bike lane on the side, that's what it looks like. The whole thing is one mile long. I try to aim for endurance because that's what has given me the best results to be honest. Sometimes I switch it up, for example this monday instead of going balls to the wall, I did the same effort instead I slowed down after 10 miles, drank a little bit of water, and then kept going. On some weeks I'll do the monday effort two days in a row, then do a recovery ride the next day, then hit it hard again the following day, then finally on the fifth day I do a full body workout.

carleton 11-02-18 01:56 PM

To piggy-back on what Brawlo says...

Ride_Fast, when I first started I was on a program similar to yours. It was intense...or so I thought. Then I hired a coach. During the first Saturday and Sunday sessions, I did more work (volume, intensity, calories, all metrics) than I would all week using my own "intense" program.

I'm not saying that you need a coach. Just saying that what I thought was intense was not and I was capable of sustaining a lot more volume and intensity.

Baby Puke 11-02-18 07:51 PM

I would say unless you plan to race or change your goals for your riding in some other way that what you're doing now is just fine. Seems to be a good plan for general fitness.

Ride_Fast 11-02-18 10:58 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20645402)
To piggy-back on what Brawlo says...


Ride_Fast, when I first started I was on a program similar to yours. It was intense...or so I thought. Then I hired a coach. During the first Saturday and Sunday sessions, I did more work (volume, intensity, calories, all metrics) than I would all week using my own "intense" program.


I'm not saying that you need a coach. Just saying that what I thought was intense was not and I was capable of sustaining a lot more volume and intensity.


I wouldn't mind having a coach, actually. Just how intense was it? What kind of work did you do? Also, how much is too much? If you only did two sessions a week how often do you really need to ride to improve?

carleton 11-02-18 11:40 PM


Originally Posted by Ride_Fast (Post 20645991)
I wouldn't mind having a coach, actually. Just how intense was it? What kind of work did you do? Also, how much is too much? If you only did two sessions a week how often do you really need to ride to improve?

1: Anything is better than nothing.

2: All beginners will progress (see point 1 above).

3: It's all about Stimulation, Rest, and Super-compensation. In other words, do something outside of your current comfort zone. Rest. And while you are resting, your body will make you stronger than before, thus moving your comfort zone a step higher than it was before. If you rest too much, then your body will regress to where it was before.

4: Training once a day 4-6 days/week seems to be what most masters can maintain. Elites will train 2x/day for up to 6 days/week because they can recover faster.

I'm not gonna get into the details of the workouts I did. But, it was 100% on the bike stuff for my first season. I worked from home (programming) and lived a reasonable drive from the track (before ATL traffic got awful). I was on the track probably 5-6 days/week doing lots of long and short efforts on the bike. This helped me a lot as a beginner simply get used to the track and the curves.

Oh and...

5: If your goal is to compete and win (not just race for fun and fitness), don't be fat. I know this sounds silly, but it is very possible to out-eat your training program and hold on to unnecessary weight. In the masters world, there are very few fat guys on the podiums. Cleaning up your diet and leaning out (not roadie mountain goat lean) will help you get fast and fit.

Ride_Fast 11-05-18 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20646016)
1: Anything is better than nothing.

2: All beginners will progress (see point 1 above).

3: It's all about Stimulation, Rest, and Super-compensation. In other words, do something outside of your current comfort zone. Rest. And while you are resting, your body will make you stronger than before, thus moving your comfort zone a step higher than it was before. If you rest too much, then your body will regress to where it was before.

4: Training once a day 4-6 days/week seems to be what most masters can maintain. Elites will train 2x/day for up to 6 days/week because they can recover faster.

I'm not gonna get into the details of the workouts I did. But, it was 100% on the bike stuff for my first season. I worked from home (programming) and lived a reasonable drive from the track (before ATL traffic got awful). I was on the track probably 5-6 days/week doing lots of long and short efforts on the bike. This helped me a lot as a beginner simply get used to the track and the curves.

Oh and...

5: If your goal is to compete and win (not just race for fun and fitness), don't be fat. I know this sounds silly, but it is very possible to out-eat your training program and hold on to unnecessary weight. In the masters world, there are very few fat guys on the podiums. Cleaning up your diet and leaning out (not roadie mountain goat lean) will help you get fast and fit.

I will aim to do local races whenever possible. Diet is covered. I'm a strict high carb, low fat vegan. And with all the fat I eat it is still irrelevant when I'm burning 900-1000 calories in every workout involving a bike. In order for you to gain fat ... You need to eat fat. The fat you eat is the fat you wear, period. At 5'8 I was nearly 150 when my focus was just weight training. Ever since I switched to the bike I dropped to 140 and I will keep it that way just for cycling. Keeping it lean is the way to go.

Since we're on the topic. What is the ideal weight for a track cyclist? Say 5'8? (my size).

carleton 11-05-18 01:56 PM


Originally Posted by Ride_Fast (Post 20649343)
...In order for you to gain fat ... You need to eat fat. The fat you eat is the fat you wear, period...

This is totally a 1980's thinking about diets.

The Keto community would like to have a word with you. :D Ketogenic diets work.

Carbs turn into sugar. Unused sugar turns into subcutaneous body fat. Burning 900-1000 calories/workout isn't anything outstanding. It's normal.



Originally Posted by Ride_Fast (Post 20649343)
What is the ideal weight for a track cyclist? Say 5'8? (my size).

How long is a piece of string?

It sounds like you are trying to back your way into being an athlete by having the metrics of an athlete. You would be better off training like an athlete and winning like an athlete then letting your body metrics sort themselves out.

Ride_Fast 11-05-18 02:44 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20649475)
This is totally a 1980's thinking about diets.

The Keto community would like to have a word with you. :D Ketogenic diets work.

Carbs turn into sugar. Unused sugar turns into subcutaneous body fat. Burning 900-1000 calories/workout isn't anything outstanding. It's normal.

How long is a piece of string?

It sounds like you are trying to back your way into being an athlete by having the metrics of an athlete. You would be better off training like an athlete and winning like an athlete then letting your body metrics sort themselves out.

That's the average on my cycling effort. If you count the calisthenics, or the weight training it's approximately 1851 calories in a day according to chronometer. Also, chono is showing me that I'm consuming approx. 400-600g of sugar a day. Some of that is refined sugar too ... I should be obese then? lol. On average I consume 3000 calories. Most of that turns into refined sugar ... So yeah, I think we part ways on diet.

Well, that's exactly what happened when I started to focus more on my cycling. I meant on average, but yeah.

carleton 11-05-18 02:59 PM


Originally Posted by Ride_Fast (Post 20649549)
That's the average on my cycling effort. If you count the calisthenics, or the weight training it's approximately 1851 calories in a day according to chronometer. Also, chono is showing me that I'm consuming approx. 400-600g of sugar a day. Some of that is refined sugar too ... I should be obese then? lol. On average I consume 3000 calories. Most of that turns into refined sugar ... So yeah, I think we part ways on diet.

Well, that's exactly what happened when I started to focus more on my cycling. I meant on average, but yeah.

You are an excellent athlete. You are in top form. We all strive to be on your level. Not sure what we can do for you here at bikeforums since you seem to have it all figured out.

Good luck!

(that's what you want to hear, right?)

Ride_Fast 11-05-18 03:24 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20649575)
You are an excellent athlete. You are in top form. We all strive to be on your level. Not sure what we can do for you here at bikeforums since you seem to have it all figured out.

Good luck!

(that's what you want to hear, right?)

That excalated quickly ... (Not really). But we do have a massively different approach to diet. I can say that you're wrong and we can go back and fourth on that but I'm not going to get into that.

The whole point of this thread was to talk about the different types of workouts, but you didn't even want to get into that so I guess we're done here.

700wheel 11-05-18 05:23 PM


Originally Posted by Ride_Fast (Post 20649343)
I will aim to do local races whenever possible. Diet is covered. I'm a strict high carb, low fat vegan. And with all the fat I eat it is still irrelevant when I'm burning 900-1000 calories in every workout involving a bike. In order for you to gain fat ... You need to eat fat. The fat you eat is the fat you wear, period. At 5'8 I was nearly 150 when my focus was just weight training. Ever since I switched to the bike I dropped to 140 and I will keep it that way just for cycling. Keeping it lean is the way to go.
………………..

Information here on fat in diets:
https://www.livestrong.com/article/1...hakes-bad-rap/

Ride_Fast 11-05-18 07:01 PM


Originally Posted by 700wheel (Post 20649802)

This thread wasn't about diet. And for context, not all fats are bad, just Saturated fat and Trans fats. Can you still be healthy consuming them? Yeah for sure, but you can also be healthy smoking one cigarette a day. Does that mean cigarettes are good? I'm sure you can figure it out.

Jared. 11-06-18 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by Ride_Fast (Post 20649942)
This thread wasn't about diet. And for context, not all fats are bad, just Saturated fat and Trans fats.

Carleton simply said to clean up your diet and do not carry excessive weight. You've gotten into the weeds about diet.

Also, some of your comments about eating fats seem fairly antiquated. There is a ton of new information out on many of the subjects you've touched on.

colnago62 11-06-18 09:17 AM

I donít believe there is an ideal weight for a track rider. Your event, genetics, and other factors will determine and ideal weight. It is important though, as has been stated, to avoid excess weight that doesnít help propel the bike forward. Too much fat on the body is never good.

Ride_Fast 11-06-18 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by Jared. (Post 20650601)
Carleton simply said to clean up your diet and do not carry excessive weight. You've gotten into the weeds about diet.

Also, some of your comments about eating fats seem fairly antiquated. There is a ton of new information out on many of the subjects you've touched on.

He bounced back saying that unused sugar turns into body fat. How is the sugar not being used if I'm burning so many calories throughout the day? I don't own a car so we're not even adding how much I walk/ride throughout the day. Let's say that I wasn't working out at all. The sugar will make me fat just like anything else I put in my mouth. So saying that sugar makes you fat is a throwaway statement.

Ok, so let's say that Saturated fat and Trans fats don't make you fat (which it does). And let's throw cholesterol in there too while we're at it. If something isn't good for your health why include it in your diet if it's a pitfall? You can still be healthy consuming these things just like you can be healthy and smoke cigarettes, but it doesn't change the fact that it's bad for you.

brawlo 11-06-18 08:37 PM


Originally Posted by Ride_Fast (Post 20649343)
What is the ideal weight for a track cyclist? Say 5'8? (my size).


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20649475)
How long is a piece of string?

@carleton is right. There's no guideline here, just reduce your excess fat. Have a look at any high level track racing and notice that all the riders are different. Don't sweat the detail :thumb:


Originally Posted by Ride_Fast (Post 20650692)
He bounced back saying that unused sugar turns into body fat. How is the sugar not being used if I'm burning so many calories throughout the day? I don't own a car so we're not even adding how much I walk/ride throughout the day. Let's say that I wasn't working out at all. The sugar will make me fat just like anything else I put in my mouth. So saying that sugar makes you fat is a throwaway statement.

Ok, so let's say that Saturated fat and Trans fats don't make you fat (which it does). And let's throw cholesterol in there too while we're at it. If something isn't good for your health why include it in your diet if it's a pitfall? You can still be healthy consuming these things just like you can be healthy and smoke cigarettes, but it doesn't change the fact that it's bad for you.

What I have learned about diets is that it really doesn't matter. It's really about calories in vs calories out. Excess calories of any origin will find their way to becoming fat. What I have also learned is that different foods provide energy in different ways, but that's another discussion

Ride_Fast 11-09-18 10:39 AM


Originally Posted by brawlo (Post 20651741)
@carleton is right. There's no guideline here, just reduce your excess fat. Have a look at any high level track racing and notice that all the riders are different. Don't sweat the detail :thumb:



What I have learned about diets is that it really doesn't matter. It's really about calories in vs calories out. Excess calories of any origin will find their way to becoming fat. What I have also learned is that different foods provide energy in different ways, but that's another discussion

For sure, but I think it's more difficult to get fat on a high carb low fat vegan diet, unless most of your calories are coming from fat. And really, the only pitfall on this diet is Trans fats that if consumed in large quantities can actually kill you. You can consume like 500g of sugar a day, 4000 calories, or whatever from fruit and good luck getting fat from that.

Anyway, I was hoping to talk more about the workouts you guys do, not diet. If keto, or whatever works for you that's fantastic.

Also, you can't claim that you're eating "clean" or "healthy" if you consume saturated fat and cholesterol. Like I said you can be "healthy" and still smoke cigarettes.

gl98115 11-09-18 05:27 PM


Originally Posted by Ride_Fast (Post 20643484)
I've been looking around the web but I couldn't find any information on track training.

This was the top link when I googled "track cycling training."

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/kn...raining-Plan-0

Ride_Fast 11-16-18 12:02 AM


Originally Posted by gl98115 (Post 20656150)
This was the top link when I googled "track cycling training."

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/kn...raining-Plan-0

They are selling the information. I'm just interested to see what their workout plan looks like on the track and in the gym. Actually, the whole point of this thread was to match what I do with some of the more experienced guys. Doesn't even matter at what level. If you're a "master" then you aim to go as hard as they do. You can get technical all you want, but at the end of the day your goal is to achieve what they do.

Jared. 11-16-18 09:50 AM


Originally Posted by Ride_Fast (Post 20665244)
They are selling the information.

I just downloaded the 8 week preseason plan and the 8 week track cycling training plan. They were both free. I have printed both out previously and while my discipline/time was lacking, both plans were very helpful.


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