I Just Passed...Psycho Analysis
 

Being a psychologist sorta person by training (not by current trade) I have a hypothesis as to why we see so many postings about who we passed, how to pass, passing etiquette, etc.

"Passing" is defined as riding faster than a rider ahead of us and passing him or her during the course of our ride.

When we first start out riding, many of us are young and in good general shape to begin with. We may be in our teens or early 20's and be in reasonable shape physically and may have participated in some other sport. So with average general core conditioning and no physiological defects or concerns, with a young heart/lungs/muscles/skeletal system - it does not really take a HUGE effort to achieve good cycling conditioning. Let's face it - a 19 year old guy that's played other sports that is fit and has a high muscle mass to weight ratio can become a CAT 2 or 3 rider rather quickly.

Others have to work harder at achieving cycling fitness or success due to age/initial level of conditioning/physiological challenges/time required/etc. But when they get to that high level they are darn proud of it.

In the above two examples, we have riders achieveing success, success defined as a reasonalble level of cycling conditioning and ability. In other words they can ride faster than the average Joe or Josephine. They're proud of it.

Passing becomes acknowledgement of this success. The more folks you can pass, the more psychological confirmation and positive self-feedback one achieves when you pass.

If you visualize it as steps on a ladder - you have these folks at the top of the ladder.

But Father Time and other events slowly erode these achievements. You get to be 50 years old and that fitness is harder to mantain, your potential is less than it was when you were 19, and performance wanes. You participate in "Masters" events instead of CAT 2 or 3 races. It's inevitable. But even though you are not on top of the ladder, you can still pass some people. You are still alive and kicking, er, spinning.

As ability wanes and you get older, the potential population of riders you can pass becomes smaller and smaller. But you can still pass some people and brag about it.

But someone has to be on that lowest step. Until you reach that low step you continue to get some satisfaction from passing someone/anyone. Subconsciously you realize some day you won't be able to pass anyone, so why not ride in full team kit and brag about anyone and everyone you pass.

Passing, then, becomes affirmation that you are at least ALIVE and out on your bike spinning and there is at least one person in the whole wide world you can still pass. You ain't on hat last step......yet. Abnd you wantb to boast and crow to the entire world "Hey I'm Still Here and There is At Least One Sorry Sole Below Me"

I had this revelation last night when I passed two slighlty overweight women. I felt good. I had a rough week when I blew up and sorta bonked in the excessive heat we had last weekend. I recovered and trained hard all week. I could still pass some other folks - I was not on that last low step of the ladder. I then encountered a group of three slightly older gentlemen riding a leisurly 12-14mph that I also promptly passed. It felt good. There were at least 5 riders I could still pass - and if there are 5 then there are probaly 25 and 500 and.......hey I'm not on thatblast step like I thought I was Saturday. I'm still riding. I'm in reasonable shape. I'm still spinning - I am alive. And passing felt good !!!

Not really on topic (but where I thought you were originally going), I once heard a famous car driver say this; I would rather have somebody on my team who has no natural talent but has a good work ethic, than somebody who is naturally gifted and moves to the top quick.
But I do think people that had to work hard to get where they are, were also on the losing end of these 'passing' battles and are more humble. I think the guys that get off on passing are the same guys who were always naturally better and never were the losers.
Good analysis though, there is definatly a fine line between somebody who is competative and somebody who needs to pass to make themselves feel better. Or it could be the same....

If you're a "natural", passing people is no big deal. IMO, IME, YMMV, &c...

I agree....and I would further theorize that bragging about passing this or that person is done most often by riders lower down the ladder: they feel they are getting down towards the last step and know that at some point no one will be left below them - but not just yet !. Also the racer wannabes who crave the self-satisfaction that yes in this full team kit that fits a little snug because my belly hangs out there is at least one person I can pass - I am not on the lowest step - therefore I am justified in my self-dillusion.

Personally - after my Debacle in the Sun last Saturday - passing ANYONE last night just felt good and affirnmed that there are some riders out there lower on the steps than me !

Very interesting thread.

I came to road cycling through the side door got churned around for awhile. Then I got spit out the back, which is where I now happily ride.

Here's what I mean: Back in the 1980s I began to do self-supported bike tours. High speeds just aren't possible on a fully loaded bike. Nor, I found, are high speeds desirable. Traveling slowly through beautiful landscapes gives you the chance to meet all sorts of interesting people and really soak up the history and culture of a place.

Then, facing my fifth decade, I did perhaps a typically midlife crisis thing and bought a pretty fast bike and tried to learn how to hammer. I entered events with names like the "Blue Ridge Extreme," bought a heart rate monitor, and competed against myself in a weekly time trial.

I found the challenge stimulating (to an extent) and was pleased to ride my first century in more than 20 years. And, yes, I didn't mind passing people. Then my back went to hell in a row boat. I won't bore you with the details, but I was in serious pain. In fact, I couldn't get around without crutches for awhile.

With rehab, core exercises, rest, etc., I've gotten myself back in riding shape. But now I ride a lot more like I used to before I got the fast bike. And I have to say I enjoy it immensely. In fact, I'm grateful every day to be spinning along, breathing the fresh air. The only thing I seem to pass these days is the occasional mailbox, but if someone blows by me and feels good about it, my feeling is: More power to ya. Enjoy your ride.

What's the next step? I passed that poseur pedestrian like he was standing still?

I feel ya, Blackberry.

I'm kinda on your side of the fence. I promised myself to have more fun cycling this year. To do it for the sheer joy plus as a fitness receation to keep weight in check. The 50 miler with my sister showed me that I don't tolerate heat very well anymore, but darn it felt good just passing anyone last nite after my disasterous ride last Saturday- made me realize I'm not that bad a rider and there are still a few folks on the ladder below me. That's what made me theorize that the act of "pass&brag" is more a self-acclimation that I'm not dead yet ! It actually motivated me to keep riding, but made me realize that probably 50 mile rides in 90+ degree heat may not be possible for me anymore - but that's OK because I CAN STILL PASS SOME PEOPLE. I AIN"T ON THAT BOTTOM STEP...............YET !!!

I've always felt that people who brag about passing others are only trying to elevate themselves by lowering those around them :rolleyes: . Most of these braggers are looking for some sort of self affirmation rather than subsisting on their non existant self confidence. As for me.....I'll just ride my bike.....The only thing I care about being able to pass is the occasional pursuing dog A/K/A "Sprint Partner" :eek: .

Great post, Blackberry. I got to biking later in life - my dad is one huge biking nutcase - about 30 years he was commuting 60 km a day on a bike 10 month of a year or so. Therefore I never liked biking, but now I picked it up as a workout, time by myself alone, enjoying Virginia....
My personal peak is so far W&OD from Purcellville to DC and back. Passed quite few bikers on the way in - coming back, well thats different story, but I made it:)

Passing feels good, but when you pass 2 overweight female cyclists???:rolleyes:

It's not hard to pass, it's hard to maintain the position after you pass someone. It's sort of psychological challenge when you do that. You can't stop pedaling or slow down because you'll be aware of the same person passing you.

Get friends, and cycle together. That's what many of us would do. A better thrill, rather than passing, is to follow up someone closely. Building your strategy and learing your opponent's techniques. Feeling each and every breath he/she takes, knowing strenghts and weeknesses

Over-riding question: do the people who are getting caught-and-passed know that they're being chased? And if not, then wouldn't your ability to chase-catch-and-pass them be severely reduced if they were notified of your intent? That is, if they cared.

And if, while limping back to my house after riding for 6 hours, I get passed by some fresh rider who just left his driveway, am I to assume that he'll carved a notch in his top tube for having caught me?

I've been told that there are three types of people/riders [as discussed at length on a recent 4-hour road ride]:
1. Those who set achievable goals, but not so easy that they will always succeed. If they do succeed, it's through work and maybe a little luck
2. Those who set easily achievable goals - so easy, that they always succeed. The use dynamite when they go fishing. ;)
3. Those who set impossible goals, and never succeed. They are the ones who will complain that they couldn't break the hour record on their mtn bike, and have a long list of excuses as to why they failed.

Of course, this doesn't apply rigidly to all people, but it does apply to a lot of the folks I ride with. Most are of the first type, but there are a couple who are type 2. I know one guy in particular who will only challenge people he knows he can beat. He complains about how slow we are and that we're holding him up and will actively try and drop us, but then wait at the top of the next hill with a smirk on his face. However, when a faster rider joins us, he hangs at the back and won't challenge. Now that we've identified his pattern of behavior, we largely ignore it. It's kind of funny. One problem though, is that he does this to his girlfriend, and she doesn't find it very entertaining.

This whole passing thing is a big pile of horse crap. There are many factors to calculate in this whole equation of "passing". You gotta remember that you may have had that very fresh start while that other rider may have just finished his/her tough interval training or even that 100K run. So really it isn't just about your riding strength.

Like EventServices said "do the people who are getting caught-and-passed know that they're being chased? And if not, then wouldn't your ability to chase-catch-and-pass them be severely reduced if they were notified of your intent? That is, if they cared."

Personally I don't think it's a big deal if I pass someone or even if they pass me. I just think to myself, well how long have they been out riding and how hard have they been pushing themselves? I wish 'em all the best in my head and I continue on my ride, maybe trying to enjoy it or push it out hard for training.

Peace!

I hate sayings like that. Sounds like just another
no talent/lots of hard work guy sticking up for their brothers.

I don't happen to believe in "naturals"
and yes
I would be considered one of the "naturals." Honestly, I'm a "natural" at everything. Was I just born with the ability? I doubt it.
I'm sure my first throw wasn't perfectly straight and far. My first steps were probably not very graceful. I was no STUD in T-ball.
Quick learner I was, though. Why is that?
Higher intelligence? Perhaps.
But then there are countless nerds who still run like an addict with a broken toe to account for.
Many of those nerds were just as smart as I. A few even smarter.
What's the difference between us?

Work.
I've been playing sports or doing athletic-type things for my entire life.
My parents were not exceptional athletes. I highly doubt I was "gifted" with these skills. I earned em just like those "no talent" guys
only at a younger age. I'm a perfectionist and I don't settle. I was not the fastest runner in grade school. I was 2nd fastest-and left in the dust. By 6th grade I was finally the fastest and by 8th the fastest throughout the high-school. That was work. Eventhough I never had some strict, specialized training routing that some "no-talent" would need to get better
It was still work.

Don't give me less credit than I -and others like me- deserve just because some other dude didn't have the same passion -or dedication- as a child. To stay the best takes effort. With lots of people specializing in one sport just so they can "Be Like Mike"
It takes an awful lot of work to keep up when you're a "natural" playing 5 or more.

I think some of ya'll missed my point - you need to learn to read for comprehension (tounge in cheek so don't get bent out of shape).

My hypothesis is so many people get a thrill out of passing other cyclists or make a point of bragging about it or describe in detail proper etiqutte of passing/wheel sucking/etc (note the numerous other posts on the topic) because there is a great psychological need to self-affirm themselves, and the analogy I used is a ladder. The naturals or young riders or Cat 1-2-3 riders and such are at the top of the ladder. They know there are lots of less-able cylsist below them in endurance/speed/skill. They don't yet have the need to participate in the behavior, and take special pleasure in denegrating those that do (which is a behavior in and of itself a direct cousin to the bragging behavior and thus really serves the same purpose). But as you age and get older/have less time to train/have physical problem you move down the ladder step by step. Some don't start at the top but start right away in the middle or bottom third (lots of posers in his category). Some start towards the bottom and move up a little or a lot. But as you move towards the bottom or arrive there, you need some proof that you're not at the very bottom. It's a self-fullfillment thing that we all crave. You know you're still alive and kicking/spinning if you can at least pass one other poor soul at the very bottom. It's subconscious in a Freudian way: our subconscious recognizes our ultimate fallability and mortality and seeks to postpone it by affirming there's at least one other rider out there in worse shape; as long as there's one person you can pass you have not hit rock-bottom yet. When you reach the point there's no one you can pass your're done and it's over, so our subsconscious seeks opportunities to prove that "hey - I'm still alive and still here spinning" - thus postponing the inevitable.

You dont believe in naturals? So your saying that people that go out and catch on istantly to something dont exist? You have to be kidding right....I mean its a known scientific fact that some people are more gifted in areas that others are not.

My point was that hardwork is the end all, people that came from the bottom are more humble and dont get caught up on petty...whatever, doesnt matter....this isnt what the OP had in mind, dont want to get hung up on a tangent here-

Maybe, if his frame is steel. If it's CF, carving notches in the thing will just cause it to explode. ;)

Passing someone isn't a really a sign of strength anymore than getting passed is a sign of any weakness. You could be recovering from a full-out sprint as an 80-year-old couple on a tandem with a watermelon in their basket pass you by. You could rip your legs off to catch a rider up the road only to discover he's on a loaded touring bike heading to Guam. Or you could be riding along, looking for a few souls to crush, and a group of racers tears past you. Or you could be out for a nice ride in the sunshine and everyone passes you.

I rarely get caught or passed anymore on solo rides. It doesn't make me special or anything, everyone seems to be going the other way. The guys I ride with on Tuesday nights - most if not all could bury me if they chose to. But that's why I ride with them, to get stronger.

Getting caught or passed is just a thing.

Yeah, because the second one is more of a threat.

What I'm saying -believing- is that people don't just go out and catch on instantly.
You have to learn how to do things. You have to be devoted to those things in order to learn quickly -which is the goal if you're that interested. When interested in something you're more likely to pay attention to the details -which will make you better than someone who is merely "playing around"

I cannot believe that people are geared to become one thing or another. How is someone gifted at driving a vehicle? Where/Whom did that pass down from? Show me a gifted, 7 year old automobile operator, please. Are there any naturally "gifted" criminals?
Driving a vehicle is not a natural thing for people to do. There may be drivers with better eyesight or whatever, not much more than that.
There are people roaming around this earth who have supergenius IQ's -like 170+
..and have done absolutely nothing worth noting

What happened? They were "gifted" weren't they? :rolleyes:
Takes work. I don't recall exactly the quote cause I don't care to remember quotes but
paraphrased/butchered
Genius is worth nothing if not put in use.
I would say that genius does not really exist in someone until they work at something long enough to produce it.


If you cannot tell me where genius comes from and what -if anything- influences it
than you really have nothing backing up your statement that some are just born "naturals"

"I mean its a known scientific fact that some people are more gifted in areas that others are not."
That tells me nothing about how they became gifted, though.
All that statement says is that some people are better than others at specific things. Obviously.

It's not what the OP had intended -this little discussion/argument. Doesn't matter.
I agree, hard work is all that it takes. I'm very humble, btw.
You're not going to find anyone humbler. I only point this out because your thinking -at least on that point- HAS to be corrected.

For what it's worth, the "passes" I like to brag about are the ones I barely pull off! A lot of the other riders are leisure riders and not racing me anyway! Those that are training and in a push stage are the ones I'll get out and tangle with, and the ones that really, really, really give me a stiff shot of competition are the ones I brag about! If it's too easy, it's no fun and if they beat me, well, se' la guerre' ! That's just the breaks! I enjoy the competition, but it doesn't define me, the fun of it does! The ones that push me into blowing up on a ride, because they are just so durned tough, well, they let me know where I need work!http://www.world-of-smilies.com/html...walt/s0250.gif

I say it was born as kids riding our stingrays - where you were either the rabbit or the fox and you won or you lost. From there, you found out if you had the competitive gene or you didn't.

55/Rad

Good thing you're a psych person. As a surgeon there's nothing good about "passing," unless you're passing gas. Good sign of return of bowel function postoperatively. :)

I really enjoyed reading your thread--always eye-opening to think about where our needs/actions really come from, and I think you're on to something.

DrPete

< begin attempt at light-hearted humor>

isn't that referred to among psychologists as schadencycle?

< end attempt at light-hearted humor>

First of all, to lump Cat 1-2-3 riders all together might be a stretch. And to assume that a 19 year old can easily become a cat 2 rider is also a stretch. The difference between Cat 3s and Cat 2s is racing savvy and experience, not necessarily fitness and strength. There's a lot of 40, 50, maybe even 60 year olds that could clean the clocks of 19 year olds.

Secondly, some of those people that you are passing are not really on the bottom rung of the bike ladder, but are quite at the top. Do you know why? Because they are using their bike exactly for the reason they got it. To have fun. Their definition of fun is not to go as fast as they can or to pass somebody else to reaffirm their status, but to enjoy their time riding, get a change of scenery, fresh air, bond with a friend, whatever. They're not out on their bike to participate in some phony competition with a stranger, a competition they weren't informed of previously. If they are just riding along having a nice summer evening on a bike ride, not being Type A for a short while during their week, then I would consider them to be at the top rung of your ladder.

Also, I think maybe you underestimated our collective intelligence, and insinuating an insult in post #16 doesn't win you any believers.

I would like to suggest that you don't go into sports therapy if you get off on passing little girls riding pink and purple bikes with sparkly streamers and a helmut on backwards. If you want to legitimately stroke your ego, find something of quality and substance, something that brings a true sense of pride, and work for it. Then keep it to yourself; somehow it's more valuable.