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-   -   All City Cosmic Stallion (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1117111)

Carcosa 08-02-17 10:52 AM

All City Cosmic Stallion
 
Just saw this posted somewhere else. Figured I'd share it here.

All-City Cycles launches Cosmic Stallion all road bike

http://bicycletimesmag.com/wp-conten...1648851508.jpg

Thoughts?

Lazyass 08-02-17 11:19 AM

Nicest steel gravel frame I've seen, it has it all. They should have used flat mounts, though. I'd like to know what it weighs.

Marcus_Ti 08-02-17 11:24 AM

I've read good things about ACE steel...Wonder how durable ACE is since it is 6oz lighter than 853 supposedly on the same frame.

I wish a company like QBP with its resources would sell a Whiskey fork with rack mounts. There's zero reason not too. Odder still is that the Cosmic Stallion looks to be flat-mount brake in the back and post mount brake in the front WTF. Srsly. WTF.

CX-style bottle cage mount locations?


Kind of a franken-bike.

RocThrower 08-02-17 12:55 PM

It's definitely post mount front and rear, but I was kind of wondering why they didn't go flat mount too. I really like my Shimano hydraulics (rs785), but not sure how much longer they keep making them as Dura Ace and Ultregra are flat mount only.

The Radavist has some good close up pics here: Race or Ride the Cosmos with the All-City Cosmic Stallion | The Radavist.

shoota 08-02-17 01:31 PM

meh

Caliwild 08-02-17 06:02 PM

I'm actually turned off my All-City's "party brand" marketing... Nice bikes but they don't speak to me for some reason... But that's just my humble opinion.

BluesDawg 08-02-17 07:02 PM

I like it. In fact, I placed an order for one today. Size 58 complete bike. Should be here in a week or so. UPS hasn't posted a delivery date yet.

I've been planning to get a new gravel bike for a while, bouncing between the Sequoia, the RLT9 Steel and the new Diverge. When they released the full info at midnight last night, I was up and started punching numbers into spreadsheets and online bike geometry sites figuring out how well this would fit. It works for me. I was hoping for but not expecting a little taller stack so I could avoid an upswept stem, but I can live with that given all the other geometry numbers and features. The Diverge was perfect in that regard (I have a very immobile neck that requires that my handlebar be slightly higher than my saddle). But I didn't especially like the short chainstays on the Diverge. Good steel vs carbon was pretty much a wash for me, though I do have a special love for steel. The Diverge also has a press fit BB, which is not a deal breaker, but I do prefer a good old English threaded BB. That was also the main thing that kept me from pulling the trigger on the Niner RLT9 Steel. I would already be riding the Sequoia if not for the high BB. Every time I considered buying it, that just stuck in my craw.

I'll make a few changes off the bat. I have an unused set of Roval carbon wheels just waiting to put on this bike. Glad the Whisky fork uses a 15mm TA instead of a 12mm so I won't need to use an adapter. I'll need the previously mentioned upswept stem . Hopefully the stem mounted Garmin and the top tube bag will minimize the aesthetic impact. I'll swap the crankset for the Sugino OX601 46/30 that I currently have on my AWOL. I could have lived with a 48/32 like comes on the Diverge, but I know from experience that a 50/34 is too tall for my legs and lungs on the gravel roads I want to ride on this bike, especially when I'm carrying even a moderate load. I'll keep the 11-32 cassette for now.

I'll post plenty of pictures and relay my impressions when I get it and start riding it. Anyone need a Large AWOL?

TimothyH 08-02-17 09:11 PM


Originally Posted by Caliwild (Post 19763952)
I'm actually turned off my All-City's "party brand" marketing... Nice bikes but they don't speak to me for some reason... But that's just my humble opinion.

Same here. It makes it difficult to take the bike seriously.

tyrion 08-02-17 09:17 PM

I like the design but I do question house brand tubing. It might be fine and everything as advertised but until it's been tested in the real world it doesn't justify any kind of premium in my thinking.

Kapusta 08-03-17 08:37 AM


Originally Posted by TimothyH (Post 19764378)
Same here. It makes it difficult to take the bike seriously.

Different strokes, I guess.

Personally, I think "Space Horse" was just about the best name for a bike since "Karate Monkey".

Kapusta 08-03-17 08:41 AM


Originally Posted by BluesDawg (Post 19764081)
I like it. In fact, I placed an order for one today. Size 58 complete bike. Should be here in a week or so. UPS hasn't posted a delivery date yet.

I've been planning to get a new gravel bike for a while, bouncing between the Sequoia, the RLT9 Steel and the new Diverge. When they released the full info at midnight last night, I was up and started punching numbers into spreadsheets and online bike geometry sites figuring out how well this would fit. It works for me. I was hoping for but not expecting a little taller stack so I could avoid an upswept stem, but I can live with that given all the other geometry numbers and features. The Diverge was perfect in that regard (I have a very immobile neck that requires that my handlebar be slightly higher than my saddle). But I didn't especially like the short chainstays on the Diverge. Good steel vs carbon was pretty much a wash for me, though I do have a special love for steel. The Diverge also has a press fit BB, which is not a deal breaker, but I do prefer a good old English threaded BB. That was also the main thing that kept me from pulling the trigger on the Niner RLT9 Steel. I would already be riding the Sequoia if not for the high BB. Every time I considered buying it, that just stuck in my craw.

I'll make a few changes off the bat. I have an unused set of Roval carbon wheels just waiting to put on this bike. Glad the Whisky fork uses a 15mm TA instead of a 12mm so I won't need to use an adapter. I'll need the previously mentioned upswept stem . Hopefully the stem mounted Garmin and the top tube bag will minimize the aesthetic impact. I'll swap the crankset for the Sugino OX601 46/30 that I currently have on my AWOL. I could have lived with a 48/32 like comes on the Diverge, but I know from experience that a 50/34 is too tall for my legs and lungs on the gravel roads I want to ride on this bike, especially when I'm carrying even a moderate load. I'll keep the 11-32 cassette for now.

I'll post plenty of pictures and relay my impressions when I get it and start riding it. Anyone need a Large AWOL?

Do you know if the geo is similar to the Space Horse.

Space Horse was one of the three finalists for my current bike (other two were Twin Six Standard Rando and the Soma Fog Cutter - I went with the Soma)

I might have sprung extra for this frame if it shares the Space Horse geo and still had rear rack mounts.

TimothyH 08-03-17 09:52 AM


Originally Posted by Kapusta (Post 19765084)
Different strokes, I guess.

Personally, I think "Space Horse" was just about the best name for a bike since "Karate Monkey".


Like it or not, people often identify users of a product with the themes used to advertise the product.

I've no interest in being seen as a Kid Rock wannabe within my local local cycling community.


-Tim-

superdex 08-03-17 09:57 AM

say goodbye to the cross-check for those who make 6 figures.

mstateglfr 08-03-17 10:12 AM


Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti (Post 19762978)
Odder still is that the Cosmic Stallion looks to be flat-mount brake in the back and post mount brake in the front WTF. Srsly. WTF.

So being an apparent luddite and using clearly inferior canti brakes that will eventually kill me or wont allow for enough modulation to keep me happy in life, i havent deeply explored disc brakes. I have set them up for a handful of friends, but I am not informed on the innerworkings of all the different ways to mount them and why each is better/worse.

I do have a new 26" MTB frame and fork waiting to be built this coming winter for my oldest daughter and thatll have disc brakes. Ill use whatever type(s) the front and rear need(pretty sure its post) and call it good.

Since you clearly have an opinion on the matter, can you explain why post mounts are so terrible that it requires 2 WTFs in your post? I genuinely dont get it.
The fork is a Whiskey No9...so AllCity used the type of brake thatll work with that fork, right? Its not like they could have used something different and chose post mount or something...right?
Seriously, those are questions as I dont get the hubub and why this is an issue. Are post mount brakes somehow inferior from a design or use perspective? Are flat mount easier to set up or do they work better?
Or is all this just vanity and one looks better than the other?

Marcus_Ti 08-03-17 10:25 AM


Originally Posted by mstateglfr (Post 19765394)
So being an apparent luddite and using clearly inferior canti brakes that will eventually kill me or wont allow for enough modulation to keep me happy in life, i havent deeply explored disc brakes. I have set them up for a handful of friends, but I am not informed on the innerworkings of all the different ways to mount them and why each is better/worse.

I do have a new 26" MTB frame and fork waiting to be built this coming winter for my oldest daughter and thatll have disc brakes. Ill use whatever type(s) the front and rear need(pretty sure its post) and call it good.

Since you clearly have an opinion on the matter, can you explain why post mounts are so terrible that it requires 2 WTFs in your post? I genuinely dont get it.
The fork is a Whiskey No9...so AllCity used the type of brake thatll work with that fork, right? Its not like they could have used something different and chose post mount or something...right?
Seriously, those are questions as I dont get the hubub and why this is an issue. Are post mount brakes somehow inferior from a design or use perspective? Are flat mount easier to set up or do they work better?
Or is all this just vanity and one looks better than the other?


Per RocThrower is it post-mount front and back, my eyes were confused on the official PR photo....But it is an odd choice for a brand new frameset, since the disc brake universe is settling on flat-mount calipers going forward. Finding post-mount legacy equipment to work with newer groups will be a thing. Mixing caliper types would have been oddly infuriating with calipers sold in sets.

"AllCity" and "Whiskey" are both corporate pseudonyms for QBP...they have the industry connections and resources to get whatever they want made. They chose not to do flat-mount. For their build-kit choice, SRAM now makes Rival with flat-mount calipers-so they weren't limited by SRAM.

Kapusta 08-03-17 10:27 AM


Originally Posted by TimothyH (Post 19765338)
Like it or not, people often identify users of a product with the themes used to advertise the product.

I've no interest in being seen as a Kid Rock wannabe within my local local cycling community.


-Tim-

Kid Rock?

How did you get there from "Space Horse" or "Cosmic Stallion"?

Edit: Not challenging you on this, but find the mental association fascinating.

mstateglfr 08-03-17 10:38 AM


Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti (Post 19765424)
Per RocThrower is it post-mount front and back, my eyes were confused on the official PR photo....But it is an odd choice for a brand new frameset, since the disc brake universe is settling on flat-mount calipers going forward. Finding post-mount legacy equipment to work with newer groups will be a thing. Mixing caliper types would have been oddly infuriating with calipers sold in sets.

"AllCity" and "Whiskey" are both corporate pseudonyms for QBP...they have the industry connections and resources to get whatever they want made. They chose not to do flat-mount. For their build-kit choice, SRAM now makes Rival with flat-mount calipers-so they weren't limited by SRAM.

Thanks.

I know both are brands of QBP and it makes sense that they went with a sister brand for the fork. Wonder if Whiskey makes the same fork for flatmount brakes or if they had to go with postmount since Whiskey doesnt make the fork in flat.

With flatmount apparently being the way moving forward, i wonder why they went with post(assuming Whiskey has a flatmount fork available). This sort of thing is usually due to meeting a price point- is building a flatmount frame more expensive than post? If cost wasnt the issue, then what?

You didnt mention performance being an issue with postmount- so if they perform the same(post and flat), then is it really just aesthetics?



Really interesting time- sorta like whats been going on with all the bottom bracket options for the last handful of years- no clear winner yet and the market has changed a ton with different standards.

mstateglfr 08-03-17 10:40 AM


Originally Posted by Kapusta (Post 19765432)
Kid Rock?

How did you get there from "Space Horse" or "Cosmic Stallion"?

Edit: Not challenging you on this, but find the mental association fascinating.

Yeah...its a stretch.

I didnt realize AllCity has a party image. But I just associate it as a brand of QBP and dont buy much into the brand image of most things.
When I think of AllCity, i think the following- youthful, adventure, Twin Cities, alternative, beards, steel.

Nope, Kid Rock doesnt come to mind.

Marcus_Ti 08-03-17 10:58 AM


Originally Posted by mstateglfr (Post 19765468)
Thanks.

I know both are brands of QBP and it makes sense that they went with a sister brand for the fork. Wonder if Whiskey makes the same fork for flatmount brakes or if they had to go with postmount since Whiskey doesnt make the fork in flat.

With flatmount apparently being the way moving forward, i wonder why they went with post(assuming Whiskey has a flatmount fork available). This sort of thing is usually due to meeting a price point- is building a flatmount frame more expensive than post? If cost wasnt the issue, then what?

You didnt mention performance being an issue with postmount- so if they perform the same(post and flat), then is it really just aesthetics?



Really interesting time- sorta like whats been going on with all the bottom bracket options for the last handful of years- no clear winner yet and the market has changed a ton with different standards.

The technical advantage...with flat you keep the caliper snug to the frame. There's less sticking out that risks being damaged during a crash. Now, AllCity with this frame got inventive with the rear-caliper--sneaking a post-mount caliper inside the stays (which is why I initially thought it had a flatmount back there)....something normally you only see on flat-mount bikes.

Now, allegedly with the caliper being bolted direct to the frame you get a stronger better braced caliper as well...but I don't claim to think that is really an advantage IRL on anything other than extreme use (like say DH racing).

The other boons are just aesthetic-caliper is cleaner and tighter to the frame. Which maybe is aerodynamically superior by X Watts or not-I don't know (or care LOL).

Sidenote: flat-mount is a Shimano open-standard, so anyone can use it. SRAM adopted it. I think Campagnolo has as well for their H11 group, Campag also uses Shimano's Centerlock rotor standard (kind of funny when you think about this).



Whiskey ATM doesn't make a flat-mount fork...but this is QBP. If they want it-they could have it made. They could single handedly corner the LBS market for wide-clearance rack-mountable carbon forks with disc brakes....rather than forcing people to buy direct aftermarket from Niner or Fyxation or Rodeo Labs.

Kapusta 08-03-17 11:29 AM


Originally Posted by mstateglfr (Post 19765479)
Yeah...its a stretch.

I didnt realize AllCity has a party image. But I just associate it as a brand of QBP and dont buy much into the brand image of most things.
When I think of AllCity, i think the following- youthful, adventure, Twin Cities, alternative, beards, steel.

Nope, Kid Rock doesnt come to mind.

Yeah, I think of All-City as more urban hipster in there marketing than anything else.

The only musical association I make is the Steve Miller Band. Space Cowboy is gonna need a Space Horse.

ThermionicScott 08-03-17 11:33 AM

+1 on not getting the Kid Rock connection.

TimothyH 08-03-17 01:16 PM


Originally Posted by Kapusta (Post 19765432)
Kid Rock?

How did you get there from "Space Horse" or "Cosmic Stallion"?

Edit: Not challenging you on this, but find the mental association fascinating.


I did not get there from the names of the bikes. I got there from All City's advertising where they state very plainly who they are and what they believe in.

Just like specialized and their brand recognition campaign based on Robert Egger giving both middle fingers.
https://www.outsideonline.com/205333...ould-be-better
It is interesting to note that there is no trace of that left on the Specialized website.

mstateglfr 08-03-17 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by TimothyH (Post 19765894)
I did not get there from the names of the bikes. I got there from All City's advertising where they state very plainly who they are and what they believe in.

So Kid Rock in the 90s and early 2Ks where he was singin about the Gs with the 40s and the chicks with beepers and being a cowboy?
Or the Kid Rock of the last decade where Southern Rock transitioned to Country which transitioned to a run at the Senate?

Lazyass 08-03-17 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by TimothyH (Post 19765338)
Like it or not, people often identify users of a product with the themes used to advertise the product.

I've no interest in being seen as a Kid Rock wannabe within my local local cycling community.


-Tim-

You're concerned what other people may think because you would be riding a bike from a company who's advertising you don't like?? :foo:

shoota 08-03-17 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by mstateglfr (Post 19765479)
Yeah...its a stretch.

I didnt realize AllCity has a party image. But I just associate it as a brand of QBP and dont buy much into the brand image of most things.
When I think of AllCity, i think the following- youthful, adventure, Twin Cities, alternative, beards, steel.

Nope, Kid Rock doesnt come to mind.

Boy is that ever the truth.


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