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-   -   How can you go fast on a df bike without aero bars? (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1172777)

robnol 05-11-19 09:01 PM

How can you go fast on a df bike without aero bars?
 
Went for a 30 mile training ride today.hot sunny and windy..about 13 miles in I passed 2 guys obviously pacelining to avoid the head wind...I passed them no with no problem at all ....I was down on the aero bars all alone with nobody to help me.... and I wondered how the heck do df riders go fast in what seems to be the most un aerodynamic riding position ......

texaspandj 05-11-19 09:09 PM

Effective training makes you faster, aero bars or not.

caloso 05-11-19 09:12 PM

What is a df bike?

raceboy 05-11-19 09:23 PM

Diamond frame would be my guess...

KLiNCK 05-11-19 09:30 PM

Maybe the “2 guys” didn’t realize they were in a race. ;)

02Giant 05-11-19 09:31 PM

I thought story telling was supposed to end with winter.

robnol 05-11-19 09:48 PM


Originally Posted by KLiNCK (Post 20925434)
Maybe the “2 guys” didn’t realize they were in a race. ;)

Yeah that's it save the fast riding for the races....I saw the exasperation on their faces they were giving it their all

ThermionicScott 05-11-19 10:07 PM

I miss @JoeyBike already. :(

79pmooney 05-11-19 10:19 PM

Simple question - how long had you been riding at that pace and how long had they?

gregf83 05-11-19 10:49 PM


Originally Posted by robnol (Post 20925412)
I wondered how the heck do df riders go fast in what seems to be the most un aerodynamic riding position ......

There are many positions to ride a bike in depending on the circumstances. The least comfortable position is in the aerobars on a TT bike so most riders spend relatively little time in this position. Training is rarely about speed. It's certainly possible to get in an aero position on a road bike. Your passing other riders is meaningless.

canklecat 05-11-19 11:12 PM

A TT/tri bike with aero bars is a huge advantage at speeds above 15 mph or into the wind.

Recently a friend got a lightly used Specialized Transition TT/tri bike just out of curiosity. After a 30 minute warmup and gettin'-used-to ride, he was using the aero bars more often. On a 3% undulating downhill into a stiff headwind, his best average speed of two tries was 21 mph... just coasting.

My two tries pedaling on my road bike? 12 mph. My usual average on that downhill is 30 mph, and my best was 35 mph. The KOM and top 10 are in the 40 mph range (no longer practical unless we blow a 4-way stop sign intersection, which didn't exist when the fastest speeds were logged a few years ago -- it was essentially a closed course back then).

That's how much difference an aero tuck makes.

On flat terrain I had to pedal at around 75-85% effort to keep up with my friend who was just loaf-pedaling in an aero tuck. I had to get into the drops with my forearms parallel with the ground to keep up. But my upper body was still catching a lot of resistance in the kind of aero tuck that was typical before Greg LeMond changed the game in the '89 TdF.

On climbs I passed my friend easily, but that's mostly due to differences in conditioning. I work my butt off to stay in shape, and I'm not even particularly strong or fast in my age group. He's early 40s and just getting back on the bike. And the TT bike wasn't really set up well for him so the saddle was pretty uncomfortable after about 20 miles.

So, yup, a younger guy with so-so conditioning on a TT/tri bike in aero tuck was basically coasting by me while I was putting in a fairly hefty but sustainable effort without getting into the orange zone.

I've tried old school Scott aero bars (courtesy of texaspandj) on my '89 Ironman and could see some differences in Strava over several rides on the same 5 mile loop. My average speed was a little faster than usual with less effort. But my balance sucks and I'm still not confident in the aero bar position. My buddy seemed to take to it easily and even used the aero bars on a fast downhill. I don't have enough confidence in my balance to use aero bars on a fast downhill. So far I've used 'em only on flats and 1% or 2% grades on smooth pavement.

But a properly designed full aero bike with a capable cyclist? That's a whole 'nuther world. The main challenge would be staying in that aero tuck for long time trials. I'm back in physical therapy for back, neck and shoulder injuries, hoping to stay aero for longer than 60 seconds. That's about all my neck can tolerate right now.

robnol 05-12-19 07:36 AM

my training rides are usually 30 niles more if i can get more time...i spend 95% of it in the aero bars sooo much more comfy and im used to the position when i get up put my hands on the top of the bars i can feel the air drag slow me down,,,,i find the aero bars easier on the back and arms as well

robnol 05-12-19 07:43 AM


Originally Posted by gregf83 (Post 20925480)
There are many positions to ride a bike in depending on the circumstances. The least comfortable position is in the aerobars on a TT bike so most riders spend relatively little time in this position. Training is rarely about speed. It's certainly possible to get in an aero position on a road bike. Your passing other riders is meaningless.

the least comfortable dude u must be kidding its the most comfortable....and my training is all about speed or else whats the point of bike training unless ur just pleasure riding ....time trials are my thing fun honest me against the next guy without using another rider for assistance"pacelining"

robnol 05-12-19 07:46 AM


Originally Posted by texaspandj (Post 20925417)
Effective training makes you faster, aero bars or not.

faster wasnt the point more aero was less effort also

downhillmaster 05-12-19 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by robnol (Post 20925412)
Went for a 30 mile training ride today.hot sunny and windy..about 13 miles in I passed 2 guys obviously pacelining to avoid the head wind...I passed them no with no problem at all ....I was down on the aero bars all alone with nobody to help me.... and I wondered how the heck do df riders go fast in what seems to be the most un aerodynamic riding position ......

So they were doing 16 mph and you pushed as hard as you could to pass them at 17 mph.
You are a beast on your aero bars :thumb:
Last week I passed a rider on a 1000cc Honda Interceptor.
He was sitting upright and I was in full tuck.

texaspandj 05-12-19 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by robnol (Post 20925756)
faster wasnt the point more aero was less effort also

Sorry, I was just answering your question, "How can you go fast on a df bike without aero bars?".

Perhaps I misinterpreted and you meant, How can you be more aero on a df bike without aero bars?

robnol 05-12-19 08:02 AM


Originally Posted by downhillmaster (Post 20925762)
So they were doing 16 mph and you pushed as hard as you could to pass them at 17 mph.
You are a beast on your aero bars :thumb:
Last week I passed a rider on a 1000cc Honda Interceptor.
He was sitting upright and I was in full tuck.

no i was doing 20mph i was only 13 miles into a training ride so i was still in warm up mode...save the all out effort for the 2nd half

wgscott 05-12-19 08:04 AM

May 12. There shouldn't be that much troll weather.

_ForceD_ 05-12-19 08:11 AM


Originally Posted by caloso (Post 20925420)
What is a df bike?

Maybe he meant "TdF" but the T got left out?

Dan

wgscott 05-12-19 08:14 AM


Originally Posted by caloso (Post 20925420)
What is a df bike?

It is a hate-speak term introduced by the recumbent community.

robnol 05-12-19 08:21 AM


Originally Posted by wgscott (Post 20925794)
It is a hate-speak term introduced by the recumbent community.

u must be a stranger to the world of aero.....thats to bad

bakerjw 05-12-19 08:30 AM

So... What is a DF bike? So far we have...
Diamond Frame
TDF sans T

_ForceD_ 05-12-19 08:34 AM


Originally Posted by robnol (Post 20925749)
the least comfortable dude u must be kidding its the most comfortable....and my training is all about speed or else whats the point of bike training unless ur just pleasure riding ....time trials are my thing fun honest me against the next guy without using another rider for assistance"pacelining"

Yes, it can be comfortable. But certainly not to someone new to it. I've done my share of triathlons over the decades (riding in aero position) and can certainly attest that the aero position takes some getting used to. It's a completely different position and consequently your butt is at a different angle on the seat. Without your forearms holding you up, you are now putting more pressure on your shoulders. Your head is at a different angle so your neck will get fatigued. Your torso is overextended so you're putting pressure on your stomach and lungs. And when you're new to it and unsure of yourself you're going to be more tense which will cause fatigue. All those things add up to DIScomfort to someone new to it.

Also...did you consider that maybe you're just in better riding shape than the two riders you passed? Were they maybe a couple of old geezers like me? Heck, there have been times when I've been out, alone, on one of my road bikes with standard drops and passed up rideres on tri/TT bikes in aero position.

Dan

wgscott 05-12-19 08:38 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by robnol (Post 20925811)
u must be a stranger to the world of aero.....thats to bad

:lol:

_ForceD_ 05-12-19 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by wgscott (Post 20925838)
:lol:

wgscott -- Where did you get the Bianchi mint green matching frame pump? That is too much!!!

Dan


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