|
Problem with the rear hub?
Hi there! I went on a 40 km ride today on some pretty rough roads on my road bike. Near the end of the ride, I noticed that my chain made some noises, like it was about to fall off/was snagging on something, particularly near the rear derailleur/cassette while I was coasting. This happened twice. The second time that it happened was after a sprint and the noise was even more pronounced. One thing to note is that whenever I pedaled, the noise would go away. Also, the freewheel sound isn't the same as before; it sounds quieter now and... different? It's pretty hard to explain.
My wheelset is the stock Giant S-R3 that came with my bike. I friend of mine with the same wheelset experienced a similar problem a few weeks ago where he noticed some play on his rear wheel (there is none on mine at the moment). When he took it to the LBS, they found that the bearings inside his rear hub have rusted. A regrease made the wheel usable again but the original freewheel noise didn't come back and it's now close to silent when freewheeling. What do you think is the likely issue that I'm facing and what could I do to try and fix this? Is a wheelset upgrade worthwhile or should I still try to salvage this obviously low-quality part? I'm thinking Shimano RS100 but if it's not much of a step up then I won't bother. Broke college student and all that. P.S. To add to this, I would find my chain dropping to a smaller cog randomly, even after adjusting the rear derailleur. This has been happening for around a week or so now. Could it be related to the issue above? |
I'll begin with the comment that most component problems/failures I see are much more often related to use and maintenance and not bad design or manufacturing.
The freehub ratchet make a certain noise as it is new and it's lube and the lube in the nearby RH axle bearing are plentiful, of good condition and the surfaces not worn or corroded. With use and exposure to the elements (water mostly) these conditions change. At some point the change is enough to be a problem for further smooth and continued function. If the hub was maintained before this amount of change then the surfaces will remain smooth and rust free. If not then the surfaces wear or rust at a faster and quicker rate. At some point the rider notices the changes (and some then say "my XXX has failed"). During this changing process (the bike being used) the lube from the axle bearings can migrate into the freehub's ratchet and thus change that noise. Since most freehubs use an oil for it's lube and the axle bearing uses a thicker grease when the grease enters the ratchet the clicking can/does quite down. (Some who do their own work will purposely grease this ratchet so they can coast quietly, at the risk of suffering a ratchet that might not fully engage consistently). I have a Shimano Deore XR rear hub (not considered a cheap or poorly made/designed unit) in my basement that has a rusted RH axle bearing cup and a now sloppy loose freehub body due to it's being ridden for too long without servicing. This rider does brevets and isn't too good at preventative maintenance. The long term solution is to do the cleaning and relubing of the hub/freehub body BEFORE it gets into such bad shape. Doing this service after the damage has been done only covers the damage, not corrects it. My analogy is "it's like taking pain killers for a tumor. you don't feel the pain but the damage is not being fixed, just you ability to sense it for the short term. In time you will 'fail' too (die)". Andy (who's a doctor's kid) |
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
(Post 22005696)
I'll begin with the comment that most component problems/failures I see are much more often related to use and maintenance and not bad design or manufacturing.
The freehub ratchet make a certain noise as it is new and it's lube and the lube in the nearby RH axle bearing are plentiful, of good condition and the surfaces not worn or corroded. With use and exposure to the elements (water mostly) these conditions change. At some point the change is enough to be a problem for further smooth and continued function. If the hub was maintained before this amount of change then the surfaces will remain smooth and rust free. If not then the surfaces wear or rust at a faster and quicker rate. At some point the rider notices the changes (and some then say "my XXX has failed"). During this changing process (the bike being used) the lube from the axle bearings can migrate into the freehub's ratchet and thus change that noise. Since most freehubs use an oil for it's lube and the axle bearing uses a thicker grease when the grease enters the ratchet the clicking can/does quite down. (Some who do their own work will purposely grease this ratchet so they can coast quietly, at the risk of suffering a ratchet that might not fully engage consistently). I have a Shimano Deore XR rear hub (not considered a cheap or poorly made/designed unit) in my basement that has a rusted RH axle bearing cup and a now sloppy loose freehub body due to it's being ridden for too long without servicing. This rider does brevets and isn't too good at preventative maintenance. The long term solution is to do the cleaning and relubing of the hub/freehub body BEFORE it gets into such bad shape. Doing this service after the damage has been done only covers the damage, not corrects it. My analogy is "it's like taking pain killers for a tumor. you don't feel the pain but the damage is not being fixed, just you ability to sense it for the short term. In time this pain killing treatment won't be enough for very long" Andy (who's a doctor's kid) |
Why not take it back to the shop you bought the bike from as it's only 3 months old and should be covered under warranty.
|
Originally Posted by Crankycrank
(Post 22005775)
Why not take it back to the shop you bought the bike from as it's only 3 months old and should be covered under warranty.
|
Originally Posted by djdelarosa25
(Post 22005951)
I'll be taking it back to them tomorrow. Unfortunately, they only have a one week free service warranty.
For new bike sales we offer a free 3ish month follow up tuning and a half price one at about a year. Our repair service warranty period is 30 days. We extend both time frames routinely. Where are you that the shop feels that the competition for sales is so poor? Andy |
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
(Post 22006113)
What!! Did they offer an after sale free service/tune? If not they are bucking decades of common retail shop policy. If not I sure hope the cost was worth the lack of back up/follow through.
For new bike sales we offer a free 3ish month follow up tuning and a half price one at about a year. Our repair service warranty period is 30 days. We extend both time frames routinely. Where are you that the shop feels that the competition for sales is so poor? Andy Anyhow, I got my wheel back from them and I noticed something strange. It's now got three spacers on the quick-release skewer, in between the bolt and the spring. I swear they weren't there before, as I regularly replaced my skewer with a special one that came with my trainer whenever I used it. I removed said spacers and attached the wheel back and there seems to be no problem; the wheel is centered properly and is in tight. Makes me think they botched the reassembly of the rear hub or freehub and put the spacers outside for whatever reason. What do you think? |
I have had to add spacers outside of the dropout (under the QR end cap) to create clearance when the wheel w/ qr in on a truing stand before. As long as the QR lever closes fully and the wheel is properly secured it is best to have the qr end caps bear down directly on the drop out. These qr ends often have a serrated contact surface for best grip.
Just to be sure you are saying that those spacers were not between the axle end and the drop out's inner surface but were between the drop out's outer surface and the qr ends? If so then ditch the spacers. Andy |
Originally Posted by djdelarosa25
(Post 22005951)
I'll be taking it back to them tomorrow. Unfortunately, they only have a one week free service warranty.
|
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
(Post 22007310)
Just to be sure you are saying that those spacers were not between the axle end and the drop out's inner surface but were between the drop out's outer surface and the qr ends? If so then ditch the spacers. Andy
|
Originally Posted by djdelarosa25
(Post 22008144)
It's actually the former. I swear there weren't any spacers there before. If I remove them, the wheel does go centered in between the dropouts but I noticed that I have to tighten the adjusting nut tighter than before, to the point where some of the axle sticks out of the hole on the nut. I don't recall it being like this before I took it to them. Nevertheless, there didn't seem to be any problems on my ride this morning. Should I bring this back?
Bolded seems to be odd terms. The axle is what the QR skewer goes through. "Hole in the nut" to me sounds like some of the QR skewer stick out past the QR adjusting end cap. If so then all is ok as this happens with skewers that are a tad longer then needed. This is an example of why we like photos. Photos don't lie:) Andy (knowing that last bit no longer holds truth what with photo shop these days). |
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
(Post 22008268)
Bolded seems to be odd terms. The axle is what the QR skewer goes through. "Hole in the nut" to me sounds like some of the QR skewer stick out past the QR adjusting end cap. If so then all is ok as this happens with skewers that are a tad longer then needed.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...87597be9f1.jpg |
That's no problem, the skewer sticking out. Could be the shop grabbed the wrong skewer on reassembly. The amount showing is about 5mm, or the difference between a road length and a MtB length. If the exposed threaded end tends to catch on stuff spin on a Nylok nut enough to stay put and cover the raw end. Andy
|
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
(Post 22008607)
That's no problem, the skewer sticking out. Could be the shop grabbed the wrong skewer on reassembly. The amount showing is about 5mm, or the difference between a road length and a MtB length. If the exposed threaded end tends to catch on stuff spin on a Nylok nut enough to stay put and cover the raw end. Andy
Just to be sure, I measured it and it's 130 mm in length. |
The key is really how the hub fits in frame dropouts. You could probably tell if the hub has a lot more play when you install it; before you tighten the QR. At the very least see it. Also how it fits in the trainer. You just can’t remove 5mm of spacers and not notice it.
John |
https://imgur.com/a/dzNmTD6
Here's are more pictures. Someone from ****** commented that there seems to be far too much axle sticking out from the locknut on the non-drive side, implying that the mechanic may indeed have left out a spacer during reassembly. |
Originally Posted by 70sSanO
(Post 22008663)
The key is really how the hub fits in frame dropouts. You could probably tell if the hub has a lot more play when you install it; before you tighten the QR. At the very least see it. Also how it fits in the trainer. You just can’t remove 5mm of spacers and not notice it.
John |
Originally Posted by Crankycrank
(Post 22008933)
+1. Giant has pretty good quality control so the wheel should fit in the dropouts without much, if any, play and you should not have to force the dropouts apart either. The photos don't look right to me either with the extra length of the QR skewer and the excess axle sticking out on the non-drive side. Hard to say for sure if something is wrong but if you can find a diagram with all the axle parts it would help to figure out if it has been put back together properly. It's fairly common to have a spacer between the locknut and the bearing cone on the NDS which I don't see in the photo and would explain all the odd extra threads showing. At least if all the parts are in place the axle should be re-assembled to have equal lengths of axle protruding on each end.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...87c5d9236d.jpg |
I’m not sure anyone can tell from that pic if those are spacers/washers that should go in between the locknuts. The only way to know is if the OLD (over locknut dimension) is less than the dropout width by the sum of the spacers.
That said, it is not an easy removal, especially an odd number and keep the rim centered on the bike. You can’t just remove hub spacers, usually on the NDS. If you do, and not re-dish the wheel, the rim will be off-center. Way too much work for a shop to do, unless there was a good reason that I can’t think of. John |
Originally Posted by 70sSanO
(Post 22009419)
I’m not sure anyone can tell from that pic if those are spacers/washers that should go in between the locknuts. The only way to know is if the OLD (over locknut dimension) is less than the dropout width by the sum of the spacers.
That said, it is not an easy removal, especially an odd number and keep the rim centered on the bike. You can’t just remove hub spacers, usually on the NDS. If you do, and not re-dish the wheel, the rim will be off-center. Way too much work for a shop to do, unless there was a good reason that I can’t think of. John |
Everything OP has mentioned points to a missing spacer on the axle. Measure the width of the axle from outside locknut to locknut then measure the inside width of your dropouts which is most likely 135mm or 130mm within about 2mm or so. The axle measurement should roughly match the dropout measurement. If not, Install the correct size single spacer between the locknut and bearing cone on the NDS and it should work. Sounds like a pretty shoddy fix from the bike shop to use several washers to take up the slack in the skewer in what should have been obvious (and maybe it was obvious to them) that something was not right. The original complaint of the chain making noise and not shifting properly could have been just a derailleur needing an adjustment and not unusual for a newer bike after everything in the drivetrain/shifting settles in.
|
Your bigger problem is your LBS. if the mechanic, intentionally or unintentionally, removed washers to fix your bike and left it off-center; then adjusted the brake caliper to compensate, you need to go back and find out why, and have them fix it properly, or find another mechanic.
John |
Just an update, today I dropped by a neighbor of a close friend of mine who's a competent home mechanic. Turns out, not only was I missing spacers, but bearings as well. They didn't solve my freehub play at all, and they barely put any grease on the hub assembly. The spring of one of my pawls got snapped, while the other pawl was barely sticking out (it's a miracle my pedal strokes were still engaging). I only told him to put the spacers back in properly but he took the time to overhaul my hub (again), properly this time. Heck, he even supplied the bearings and spring for the pawl. No more problems, wheel is perfectly centered and no more shifting issues. He only charged me 4 USD for the whole thing.
|
Let the shop know you what your good mechanic found and ask them to compensate you for the money you spent on the repair. Unbelievably crappy service from the shop. I'd report them to Giant if they aren't willing to make the situation right. Keep the new mechanic. Good to hear it was fixed.
|
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:40 AM. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.