Dubious about road tubeless. Sell me on it...
 

Before I spend 120+ dollars at the LBS buying 32c Gravel Kings and setting them up tubeless can you please assuage my doubts?

It seems to me that road tubeless is...
1.) Messy
2.) Complicated
3.) A PITA to fix on the road. What's a plug?
4.) Not actually much more reliable than a puncture resistant clincher like a Conti 4 Season
5.) You need a compressor to mount them? WTH?

Please save me money

Don't do it.

In a parallel universe in which clinchers came later, they would be branded 'modular' and be touted as better in every way apart from weight. The chronology is messed up in our universe, but who cares about chronology? You already have the upgrade.

Consider the value of bragging rights with your riding "buddies."

How many miles do you average between flats? If that number is small, there's no real need to ditch the tubes. In the "interseasonal" periods-- like say between when the tribulus terrestris have bloomed and the late-spring sun has dried them all out and landscapers have scattered them across all of creation, tubeless helps me avoid 1-2 flats per day. Any benefits to rolling resistance or ride comfort are for me just bonuses. I have two choices: armored tires that roll like LEGO bricks, or tubeless. I choose the latter.

But if you're changing a flat every few hundred miles, say more than a few a month, it's 100% worth it. I haven't had a flat due to anything other than a glass cut (which destroyed the tire in question) in 4 years. I also have a container that I keep the goatheads/thorns that I pull out of my tires on a daily basis. A little jar of flats that didn't happen.

To address the checklist: it's not messy (I don't consider anything that cleans up with plain water to be messy,) there's fewer bits to deal with, fixing a flat on the road is exceptionally rare, and plugs are super easy to use (I've had to use 2 plugs in all my miles on tubeless,) no non-armored tubed tire comes close to tubeless for flat prevention, a compressor does help. I personally don't understand how people go through their lives without a compressor. I use mine every single day for one thing or another.

Don't have any... •́ ‿ ,•̀

If your Conti 4 Season can keep you flat free, its a hard sell, unless you want to experiment for the fun of it.

I built an "all road" bike that I want to run 32c Gravel Kings on because I ride it on mixed surfaces and really bad roads. But I've read that GKs are very flat prone and tubeless would be the obvious answer.

I change flats super rarely. Maybe less than 1 per 2k (or fewer). But, I have been running reliable tires exclusively for the last decade. Tires like Schwalbe Marathon in extreme situations, Conti 4 Season, etc. Once, years ago, when I was new to cycling, my LBS sold me a set of expensive race tires. They were sooo smooth and light and they lasted me a week.

With tubeless my hope is to get that smooth ride w/o the flats.

There are 32mm versions of the Conti 4 Season and a "Gravel king Plus" with extra puncture protection.

https://www.panaracer.com/lineup/gravel.html

That's it. That's the reason.

I've done both. Of the 4 rims of mine that are currently compatible, only 2 are actually missing their tubes.

For road, I tried 28mm tubeless. In the 1500 miles I put on them, I got one flat. Really it was noise and once it stopped hissing, I added some psi to keep moving fast. This was near the end of 40 miles of shale/gravel.

I did switch back to 25mm with tubes. Rolling resistance debates aside, I just like that size better. I got GP 4000 on sale, so I've got tubes. It's not like I leave the repair kit at home regardless of the system.

For my gravel bike, they're tubeless and always have been. 3 seasons on that bike, one flat. I think I messed up the valve stem on a rock. My sealant was almost completely dry too, so I tossed in a tube. It took a minute longer because I carry a pump on remote rides.

As for maintenance and mess. I wouldn't do it in an apartment but it's honestly no big deal if you have a garage. I manage to mount tires with a baby in my lap. It can't be too bad.


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I'm happy with the number of flats I get. I don't get many, and when I do, it's not very inconvenient for me. I'm not leaning towards tubeless, at least not this year, but if I were to consider it, it would be for ride quality. Is there anything to that? I already prefer thin sidewall tires and don't give a hoot about puncture protection.

I am planning to experiment with the liquid used to seal up leaks. Firstly on a fat bike, probably later on others. Almost all punctures I get are small enough to seal.

I was thinking of using it in the tube. That way it is not messy when I change a tire. I may even be able to run the same tubes for the life of two sets of tires.

I like mine. Flat resistance is nice, more absence of pinch flats than puncture resistance, but the main benefit is ride. I am riding 20 lbs lower pressure and the difference is very apparent as compared to comparable road tires.

Set up is a little more complicated but not bad with my Schwalbe pro ones. With the previous version of pro ones, I had to use an air canister to get them to mount, but I just got the newly redesigned version and they inflated right up with just a floor pump, so your need for a an air canister will depend on the tires.

As for fixing on the road, dont mess around with plugs, which are temporary any way. Just throw a tube in until you get home. This has happened to me twice, both cases with very worn tires suffering a puncture that would have killed any clincher,and putting a tube in wasn't too much more difficult than with regular clincher. I should note, however, that my pro ones go on and off my HED Belgium+ rims relatively easily. If you have tire/rim combo where the tires are really hard to mount, then you would be correct to fear the PITA factor of road repairs.

Oh, and as for saving money, I haven’t spent any more on tubeless than I would have spent on comparable clinchers.

...I don't use tubeless, because I rarely flat in my riding conditions. Be aware that Spesh is coming out with a new sealant that they are advertising as superior for higher pressure tyres, like a lot of road applications.
One of the drawbacks of road tubeless is that the punctures don't always seal immediately or well, because of the higher inflation pressures . Maybe you intend to run your Gravel Kings with lower pressures, so it's immaterial.

FWIW, I've got tubeless ready rims, and tubeless tires... I gave it a go and I ended up going back to tubes. Granted, this is a true road bike (25c tires, pavement only), but I just didn't see much upside for this application. Tubeless for mtn is definitely an improvement. OP, you might see some benefit with lower pressures and I'm interested to see if you would get good results in this liminal application.So let us know if you end up getting it to work for you

Ha Ha…that's good


…..but I disagree :D

Just in fun...

Before I spend 100+ dollars at the LBS buying 32c Gator Hard Shells and setting them up tubed can you please assuage my doubts?

It seems to me that road tubed is...
1.) Harsh, heavy and slow... or glass jaw. Any pair of tires with sufficient armor adds 100 grams armor and half a pound of tubes and takes up a lot of watts. Without the armor I can get a pinch flat just riding over a stick, never mind a puncture.
2.) Complicated. I need another thing inside my tire? Why is the tire not good enough itself? It is on my car.
3.) A PITA to fix on the road. I already have a tube, I have to carry another one? What if it pops too? Is it going to pop on the same thing that holed the first one, am I going to pinch it on installation?
4.) Not actually much more reliable than a tubeless clincher like a Gravel King

I'll maybe concede about the compressor. I've done one with a CO2 cartridge. Some people manage without it by seating the bead a bit first but I haven't yet made it work.

FWIW, clinchers did come later. Before them were a system called "single tube" that evolved into tubulars.

1) need apple apple comparison...... how about gp5000 which are great tires Tubeless have psi of 65 to 87 and weigh 379g...... clincher psi 85- 100 and weigh 289g (tube adds 143 g if not race lite type) pinch flats are caused by riding at too low pressure.....which is why tubeless became a thing for mountain bikes
2) Read this forum there are literally hundreds of post about issues with tubeless, they are more complicated to set up get working.....compressor to seat beads, etc..... probably best to have modern designed for tubeless rims
3) red herring, If your tubeless really dies on the road and sealant does not work you better hope you have a tube.....and it will be a mess with the sealant and you better hope you can get the tire seated.
4) completely depends on the tire, can't make a generic statement



IMHO unless you are doing over 32mm tires at low pressure there is no value add to go tubeless, and a lot of downside over clinchers

I know dr. isotope will disagree because of the goat heads he lives with and as always YMMV..

ps Overall tubular is way simpler than tubeless but know one really wants to think about that

FWIW my one and only attempt at tubeless went smoothly, was able to achieve a seal with a cheap floor pump. I had to work around the tire and pull the beads outward with my fingers, and then it held air enough to be able to pump it up and pop the beads into place.

I've read a few tubeless nightmare stories and I feel fortunate that my tires and rims are very compatible.

I have tube and tubeless setups on a variety of bikes. The ones I have in service the most are tubeless. I'm not religious about it. My wife knows how to fix a flat on a clincher - she gets tubes. My tandem can sit for months at a time or all winter - it gets tubes. The C&V roadie - no one makes a tubeless 630 tire. My commuter & MTB - tubeless all the way. I carry a little bottle of Stan's and a plug kit. I also carry a tube and levers but have yet to have to use it except to change out a worn tire. A sliced tire is more likely, and pretty rare.

Eh... I read too many reviews about people being in flat hell with Gravel Kings, or them just wearing out really fast. I ordered some 32mm GP5000s and I'm going to try running them with nice latex tubes. This bike sees 70 percent pavement and 30 percent dirt roads. I think they'll work well. The GP4000 25s are pretty great.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...62ebe1e3b7.jpg

Just kidding... Going to send the GP5ks back. Got some Schwalbe G-One Speeds in 30mm. Excited about these. Dunno how these got past me.