Shimano naming schemes
 

Can anyone understand this? Looking at the Shimano Wiki, if you look at Alivio for example, they went from MC12 to MC20 then changed to M410 to M430 then changed to M4000. Does this make any sense to anyone?

Would you just prefer they go up to M4100 then M4200 etc? I don't see the point in always changing.

Are you wanting to put branding specialists out of work?

Hmmm,,,not a bad idea, come to think of it.

Bigger numbers are always better. So is anything with the letter "X" in the name. Basic branding 101

Could be worse...could be Mavic.

Dura Ace = durable ace
Ultegra = ultimate integrity
Nexave = next wave
These are all I can remember. I like the names, very Japanese in construct and fashion. The numbering system for the better components make perfect sense to the most casual observer.

Not only Shimano - Peugeot used to have a very complex numbering scheme IIRC.

Did anyone noticed Alivio hasn't been updated in several years? Who's excited about seeing the new Alivio?

cant say I have ever been excited to see new Alivio. Its perfectly fine and i used Alivio shifters for both my kids' mountain bikes, but I definitely dont get excited for a redesign of a mid-low group.

...but I really dont get excited over high end group redesigns either.
hmm- Ive lost the passion for groupset redesigns!

It kinda brings to mind that annoying hustle the grocery stores pull, when they periodically move everything from where you'd gotten used to it being, to force you to wander down every aisle in the store, looking for it.

Is he the new pool boy/love-interest in some Mexican telenovella !! :roflmao:

It's possible you're just getting old. But you don't need Tiagra right?

"Alivio" always makes me think of the fishmonger song. Alive, alive-o!

How does 105 fit into thr scheme?

I always wondered about that; how 105 got it's name.
I mean based on the other groups it appears to be the odd man out.
Maybe the marketing department got lazy:

"okay guys, what are we naming this group?"
"Something...something lower than Ultegra, but better than Alivio..."
"Lowtegra!"
"Ultlevio!"
"Dura Base!"
"Look, I got a date tonight. What's the project number?"
Ruffling papers..."uh...105!"
"Sounds good to me! Laters!"

105 is older than Ultegra or Alivia, though. When 105 was introduced, Ultegra was still called 600.

The other groups around then were Exage (which came in 300EX, 400EX and 500EX levels) and, for a while, RX100.

None of it made sense.

Wow! I used to have a Shimano 600 rear derailleur - didn't realise it was one of the better ones. I also had a Shimano Titlist front derailleur which replace the Simplex one I had before that.

Yeah, I remember 600.
Man that was the olden days when Suntour was still around.
Campagnolo was kept behind the counter in a glass case.
Actually Campag is just as bad! There are still groups out there I never heard of. Daytona? Mirage? Who what when where? Anyways...

I always wondered what the hell a Dura Ace was...

Damn it! The local market just did that.
Pisses me off!

I could be wrong, but I think Exage was mainly MTB or Hybrid stuff, so was in the lineup with 100GS and 200GS.

So the pattern did follow the numbers... 100GS, 200GS, Exage 300, 400, 500. Then there was Deore, which eventually split into LX, DX, XT.
100GS and 200GS and Exage 300 became (I think) Acera and a fer different levels of Alivio. Then there was STX and STX RC, then Deore LX, then XT, then XTR.
STX and STX RC disappeared and they brought Deore back. Then LX became SLX.

Now that I think about it, there were Exage road parts (renamed as RX100?), and they were below 105. But above 105 was 600 (which became Ultegra), then Dura Ace.
Sora replaced the lower-end road Exage stuff, RX100 became Tiagra, the rest remained the same.

If you are buying a bike and can afford it, I would recommend not going lower than Tiagra/Deore. And I see no benefit in going higher than Ultegra/XT

105 is supposedly a corruption of 10 Speed,
Sora is crane in Japanese and Shimano also made a Crane derailleur in the 60s.
The higher end MTB stuff were originally suffixes for Deore (of gold?) as in Deore LX, Deore XT etc. and then dropped the Deore prefix. The Saint and Hone gravity stuff are actual words and Alfine internal gear hubs are a made up word.

I read a message from someone saying he asked clients questions about Alivio/Deore for 5 years. From what I remember, the advantages of Deore over Alivio are:
no. 1 . Deore doesn't have to be adjusted as often as Alivio
no. 2 . Deore lasts longer then Alivio
no. 3 . Deore can do better in difficult situations then Alivio (I suppose he meant like shifting while pedaling fast)

However, I changed the grips shifters on my winter/rain bike with Altus 3x7 rapidfire shifters and was blown away by how well it shifted with the Tourney front and rear derailleurs on the bike. So, since you can find a full Alivio groupset on eBay for like $60 with Deore groupsets easily surpassing $200, I would prefer buying Alivio then buying another groupset once it's no longer working well.

Shimano naming is as arbitrary as this: "There were three houses in that block. The first was named Zion. The second didn't have any name at all. The third was Number Three." (or something like that, from a le Carré book).

when you went there for your items, of all the things you ended up with, how many of those items we not initially on the "to get" list?




Product movement is purposed for moving unexpected money from consumers pockets.

Absolutely! Whatever's broke on the old Alivio they should fix. Otherwise, leave it alone.

In the example you gave, those Altus shifters are great... and most Shimano shifters generally last a long time.

The three reasons you give are pretty accurate... two thoughts, though... Deore lasts longer than Alivio... so how long is that? My experience is that one or two seasons of regular riding and your Alivio parts are going to be pretty sloppy. Deore will probably go four or five years. This is the main difference between all the component levels in my experience. Even your third point, that Deore works a bit better in difficult conditions, isn't really true when the parts are new. Like you found, even the lower end stuff works fantastically when new. Especially when it's 7 or 8 speed and not 9, 10 or 11+. The difference comes when the parts get a few years old - it becomes very difficult to keep everything working perfectly.

But to each their own. I find the hassle of having to rebuild my drivetrain every one or two years, compared to every four or five, is worth the extra $$$. Others think differently, and there are excellent lower-cost parts for you people!