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-   -   I need help or ideas on my calorie intake. beware wacky human involved. (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1214300)

fooferdoggie 09-30-20 08:21 PM

I need help or ideas on my calorie intake. beware wacky human involved.
 
ok I need to tell you about my wacky body as it is not even close to normal.

first I can't eat carbs of any kind but in tiny amounts. they cause a lot of problems the worst is a lifetime of heartburn really bad heart burn. like your worst heartburn 24/7 for years heart burn. Also they cause me to gain weight even if I cut calories say if I ate a candy bar I would gain 2 pounds the next day and it would take all week to loose that weight. if I do it twice in a week I wont loose it at all. Plus I don't get much energy from carbs either I may get a little but it is not much. it also causes other issues if I eat it all the time like lost muscle and a lot of weakness. I think it is some genetic thing as stomach problems run in our family on the male side. my brother has some of the same problems.

I also have these weird food intolerance's that I think happened about 25 years ago from way too many antibiotics that destroyed my gut bacterial for a few years. this has forced me to eat mostly only protein only with some veggies that don't have much of any carbs. but it also limits spices seasonings and pretty much anything new, not sure of the details but I think I was taking vitamins when this started and I have been able to take them. I can also take some fiber pills as long as I don't take too many because of carbs.



my esophagus got trashed with 57 years of heartburn and it is super sensitive now. Every medication I tried for my gut or to help my esophagus causes it to hurt worse. Along with carbs anything acidic anything spicy or sour. even breathing through a mask makes it ache. It runs my life and I will do whatever it takes to keep it from getting worse.

so only strict control of what I eat keeps me healthy and active. but all my energy mostly comes from protein. My esophagus hurts with fats like oils and cream and other really fatty foods. I cant do like the keto people do and eat a lot of fat. most of my fat comes from cheese or fatty meats. the strange thing is even though I am super low carb my body does not go into ketosis. the nutritionist thinks my body converts excess protein into glucose. But why knows? my blood tests are pretty normal even my cholesterol is only a tiny bit high but that's after a bacon and egg breakfast.



Ok I wanted to get all this info out so I don't have to constantly post about it. my body has beaten me into submission over this and I cant change it no matter how badly I want to. I think if I stay away from carbs I will get better and I can eat veggies more often but I don't really know and it is a slow process. once a week I may splurge on some carbs a like a flourlesss chocolate cake or such no grains just sugar. but if I just eat that I will be tried for hours. I find if I eat it as I start a long ride it is ok. it still causes issues but its usually ok if I don't do it more then once a week.

so around November last year I wanted to get around better then my e scooter or the bus. at this time my energy levels kinda sucked. they have been much worse but I was stuck with just enough energy to make it through the workday and not much left. Years ago riding a bike helped a lot and I wanted to do it again but I knew I could not peddle a regular bike at more then maybe 10mph. on a 9.5 mile commute each way this is way to slow. I discovered e bikes. I went on test rides and I really had fun on a bike that I lost years ago from this sickness. I am always on my feet and according to my apple watch I walk about 5 or more miles a day.

so I get the e bike a very nice bosch powered bike that only runs if you peddle. for the first three months all I could do was spin with almost no effort ( I just got it setup to show the wattage I put out) and I bet most of the time it was only 70 watts for the most part. any push at all and I would get tried almost instantly and I would be wobbly after the ride.

slowly I was able to work more and more and I was able to go from turbo to the next level down assist and keep my 20 to 22mph top speed. my average speed increased from 16mph to around 17.5 to 19 on a really good day. I would ride 20 to 25 miles per day and maybe 30 to 40 over the weekends. Then 3 months ago my wife and I got a e tandem. so now I ride between 220 and 240 miles a week.

if I am feeling good I can average 180 watts for my 9.5 mile ride each way but that's a lot of work. I am more likely to be able to maintain 160 watts on the two rides a day. I don't work as hard on the tandem as my wife is not upto it though sometimes we can cruse at 20 with no motor helping. according to my bike that has my watt output ,heart rate and speed and Candace I tend to burn 350 or a bit less calories and my Garmin that has all the same but the wattage is close maybe 50 calories off. all my daily riding shows about 800 to 1000 calories burned.

ok my diet before I started riding was around 2200 to 2400 calories a day. I don't eat packaged foods so I don't know exactly. but that kept my weight the same around 186 but I needed more food with all the riding. but I cant increase my calories that much I just don't have room. all I really have to go by is hunger it takes so long to get the energy from protein its hard to tell how it effects my energy levels with the amount I eat.
I don't know how I can tell how many calories I need or if I am burning as many as the computer tells me. I think I have added around 600 or so more calories. Some days I feel more tired then others and I donít always know if it was what I ate or if I worked too hard or did not eat enough. The while eating thing is a huge burden on me that makes eating less then fun most of the time.

canklecat 10-01-20 03:00 AM

Go with whatever suits your digestion. That's a pretty reliable indicator.

I've overhauled my diet the past couple of years, motivated in part by wanting to lose a little weight, mostly forced by injury and illness. I was hit by a car in 2018, breaking and dislocating my shoulder and re-aggravating an old neck injury. X-rays revealed a radiopaque lump between golf ball and baseball size that turned out to be thyroid cancer. It quickly got so bad I couldn't swallow solid food.

So for several months I had opportunity and motivation to try something completely different. I wasn't getting enough protein and a friend brought over months worth of vegan food. And I switched from whey to legume based proteins, including drink mixes.

It was absolutely horrible. The flavor and texture could be tolerable with some care. But my digestive system absolutely cannot handle a vegan diet, especially for protein. My lab work was out of whack too.

By the end of the year I switched back to whey protein powder shakes. After surgery and a few months of recovery my esophagus finally straightened out and I could eat solid food again. By then I'd dropped from 165 lbs to 150. I cut way back on the carbs and nearly eliminated alcohol, cutting back beer consumption to one or two a month (from one or two a day). After my thyroid failed I couldn't metabolize alcohol the same and often felt sick after a single beer. Took all the fun out of beer. On the plus side, I lost more body fat without the extra carbs.

A couple of friends who'd battled years of obesity, digestive problems and general health problems revolutionized their health by going pretty much full carnivore. The main differences between the two fellows was one took a science based approach based on credible research papers, including indications that some people are genetically predisposed toward primarily animal based diets. The other tended to lean more toward culturally-biased articles that supported what he already wanted to believe anyway (the paleo fad, etc.). The end result was pretty much the same -- both fellows lost weight, kept it off, and felt better -- but the references he supplied were often no more credible than the claims for vegetarian and vegan lifestyle diets.

My only disagreement with either of them was regarding carbs. They insisted humans don't need carbs at all, ever. I pointed to studies of athletes showing consistent improvements attributable to careful use of carbs as fuel. Their points were valid for folks who don't engage in the extreme physical stress of long distance bike races, marathons, etc. That would include millions upon millions of humans who did physical labor for many generations before simple sugars and carbs were primary dietary elements. It's even possible to engage in low to moderate effort long term/distance exercise with few or no carbs. But beyond a certain point the body cannot sustain maximum effort without carbs.

So I've added some carbs and sugars back to my diet, mostly as fuel. But I have to be careful about which I use. Sugar alcohols in particular make me gassy, which thwarts any advantage offered by maltitol, etc.

There are also studies that show we're limited as to how much carbs we can metabolize at a time. Reportedly we can get around that to some extent by switching types of sugars and carbs, effectively tricking the body. Interesting theory, but I can't conclude anything from my experience. My favorite ride snacks already use multiple sources of sugars and carbs. Presumably the makers were already aware of this and designed their sports snacks to take advantage of that metabolic quirk.

I know rice has long been a traditional carb for long distance cycling races, but like my mom I have to limit my consumption, including when I eat Asian dishes (which I enjoy making at home too). It'll make me gassy. And I don't notice any particular benefit to consuming more rice rather than other carbs.

Mostly I've noticed my digestion is better overall when my diet is primarily animal products. I've gone for a week or so at a time occasionally eating nothing but animal products: meat, enough fat to keep it flavorful without going overboard, eggs, dairy, etc. I might use onions, mushrooms, etc., for flavor, but no separate servings of vegetables or dishes that are primarily veggies. I felt fine and my digestion was great. But I'm not consistent with it and often consume some carbs that aren't necessary as fuel, as well as more fruits or vegetables than I need just for flavor. Ditto oatmeal. I used to eat oatmeal every day for breakfast, thinking I needed the "fiber" or "roughage." Turns out I don't need it. If anything, in comparison oatmeal just added some discomfort and urgency in elimination that didn't happen with the primarily animal based diet.

I can't claim it's made any difference in my cycling performance. At 62 I'm well past my physical peak and it's an increasing struggle just to maintain fitness. The main differences I notice come from careful use of carbs as fuel and caffeine. I'm trying to cut back on caffeine (causes BP and heart rate spikes and palpitations), but still drink coffee or use yerba mate, guarana, etc., for hard workout days. On lighter days I use much less caffeine than I used to.

Iride01 10-01-20 09:51 AM

I don't know that any of us that respond in here are medically qualified dieticians. I'd recommend you consult one or two if you haven't already. Don't chose one that is advertising for a diet weight loss programs though.

As for your gut's bacteria and other stuff being destroyed by antibiotics, there are some recovery treatments for those that had extreme circumstances of that. But they are, I think, something that needs to be handled by a medical professional.

You say you can't tell how many Calories you need. Your scale is the final determination. If you are at the weight you want to be, then are probably getting the overall Calories you need.

If you can't tolerate carbohydrates, then you'll have to rely on fats for your energy consumption. Your body's conversion of fat to energy is a fairly steady process. It doesn't increase very much with activity level. So eating fats while riding probably won't help any. I'm certain that if you aren't way below a healthy weight that your body has plenty of fat.

Even if you could tolerate carbs, you can't replace all the energy spent during your ride. No matter how good a shape your stomach and gut are, they can't absorb Calories at a rate fast enough to replete all that you are using.

So you are what you are. Stay at or below a pace that lets you finish whatever length of ride you are going for. If you wish to get faster, that will come with time, or you can add some intervals where you go all out for a short period till you feel almost drained. Then drop back to a pace you can handle and let yourself recover, then do it again. And again, and again.

Even with that, it takes years of riding. Especially if you are up in years.

fooferdoggie 10-01-20 11:30 AM

I have talked to a dietitian a more normal one. through my heath plan. she had good ideas but I was so limited it was hard for her. But foods can really mess up my energy levels now. maybe because i am working so much more. but if I eat a food that bothers me like say a deli meat that used celery juice to cut it it may knock off 2mph on my ride. the problem with the scales is if I don't eat enough food I don't loose weight. I found this out when this started and I was so sick. when it was first happening one doc told me I may be in starvation mode and I was not eating enough. so I increased my calorie intake till it was around 600 calories a day. then I started loosing weight a pound a week. this happened again when my esophagus got so bad then it was around 4000 calories a day then I started loosing 1 pound a week. as I got better I needed less and less calories. before I started riding I was hovering around 2200 or so (its hard to know exactly since most of my food does not have nutrition labels) but also How foods can now tire me out I don't know if it is the cycling or not eating enough that slows me down. I can still ride the same miles but I cant put as much effort into it. I think I may have been pushing it a bit too.
I can eat a little more fat then I used to be able too not sure its enough and I don't now how to really know. most of my meat is on the lean side except for bacon or pork belly. just because I don't care much for fatty meat. hell i don't really care that much for meat period but of course I don't get a choice about it. I hate how foods make me feel I never feel good after eating I just hope not to feel bad. food is more of a necessity then a pleasure for the most pat. any foods I can enjoy usually don't make me feel good. in the last couple of weeks all foods that other me tend to now make me tired. that used to be only carbs doing it now it can be a mean with the wrong seasoning or such. plus its as expensive as hell I bet I spend almost 150 a week on food just for me on food I don't really enjoy. it maybe a bit lower now but I don't now for sure I gave up on keeping track of it.
I think it has been in last month i have been a bit more tired and I don't now if it is not enough food because i was pushing it harder or the food started bothering me in a different way or I am not eating enough.
when I started riding in nov I was maybe able to put out 70 or so watt average on my e bike. I got the meter on my bike a month ago and Now I average on a decent day 150 to 160 watts. a great day around 180. that's a 9.5 mile ride about 35 minutes. I was only riding 20 to 25 miles a day till we got the tandem then it jumped to 30 to 35 mils a day. with between 220 and 240 miles a week. Sunday it was 43 miles and monody and Tuesday it was 35 to 40 if my garmin and my bike computer are right thats 1000 or more calories a day. I cant eat a extra 1000 a day.

Iride01 10-01-20 01:03 PM

You main take a way should be that if your scale shows you getting too light or too heavy, then somethings got to change. Either the amount of Calories in, or the amount of Calories out.

I don't worry about five pounds (2.3kg) gain or loss between days. It's what is trending over months.

Your focus on foods you just ate being contributing factors to your issues might be misleading you.

Also, cycling is a cardio exercise. If you are needing to get some muscles then the gym is the better place for that.

fooferdoggie 10-01-20 09:32 PM

the problem is my once a week carb intake can stop me from loosing weight. its really weird a=how cabs do that to me but I have tested it many times. but also if I don't get enough calories I wont loose either.see I told you I was rather wacky (G) but I have tested these many times over the 25+ years this has been happening. so for me if I I can loose weight I know I am ok calorie wise. I know I burn maybe 600 or more calories between coming home and the tandem ride but my dinner is usually only 1/3# of mat not al to of calories so maybe I need to eat a bi more in the evenings. for many years it was really predictable what foods would do to me. but after my esophagus went bad and I went hard core no carb my body changed the reactions to foos have changed and they keep changing. so sometimes I am clueless what to expect. I have not been anything that would normally make me tired but something is. I think the country ham and bacon I have had a few times this week is doing it. it souldnot there is nothing in it I don't eat regular but it is really smoky and intense. tends to hurt my esophagus some. so no more for awhile. a little more fat at night see how that does.
Ya I should do something besides ride but I don't have the time and I would get bored in no time and dump it. I really enjoy riding and for me thats pretty amazing. I bet I have some form of add as I have always had issues keeping myself entertained. I am a woodworker so I am always active and moving stuff around.
but its strange that I still have my endurance but I cant work as hard. this is todays riding. not bad for feeling tired but I can still go.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...873816519.jpeg

fooferdoggie 10-02-20 09:20 PM

looks like it might be the unsweetened chocolate almond milk I Had every morning after riding. I should not have been drinking it as it bothered my esophagus. but ti took a couple months to start slowing me down.
I think I need more calories in the ending too.

Carbonfiberboy 10-07-20 11:36 AM

IME the first thing you should do is fix your gut bacteria issue - your microbiome. That's what's causing all your nutritional and dietary issues. It's now generally recognized that the health of our microbiome is a major determinate of our general health. Find a good probiotic and prebiotic source. I use NOW Priobiotic and NOW Inulin for those. Take the priobiotic and a heaping teaspoon of inulin in a glass of water every morning about an hour before breakfast. The inulin is a little hard to dissolve - sprinkle it on top and stir for a while. You should notice a major difference within a month.

If the above regimen doesn't produce results in a month, you need to see a specialist - a gastroenterologist who can safely knock out the bad bacteria and then replant your microbiome. The condition is technically "dysbiosis."

It is true that trouble with intestinal flora does run in families, either from diet or simply being around others with bad flora in childhood.

For reflux, the best thing I've found is to raise the head of my bed about 6". That works and it's not hard at all to get used to. The other thing that definitely works is famotidine 20mg, about an hour before both breakfast and dinner. It takes about 2 weeks to produce really good results.

Use an accurate scale to tell if your caloric intake is sufficient.

fooferdoggie 10-09-20 03:39 PM

getting doctors to even listen much about gut bacteria has been a joke. but my gut bacterial is the best its been in the last 25 years of this. it took going hard core really low carb to get it adapted. I have suggested a poop transplant but no go. but it would not fix the carb problems I think that's genetic. but if I don't eat carbs my heartburn is almost gone. my heart burn unless I ate a ton of carbs was not the regurgitation type.
so I think i will just stick to one carb splurge a week its not too bad that's best to go riding right after.
I think the problem is I am working too hard on weekdays and maybe not eating enough calories. the way it has been going is I ride the tandem on Sunday last week was 45 miles I kept my heart rate around 110 or so so my output would have averaged about 120 watts. according to my garmin I burned 1500 calories. I was starving when we got home (I need to have a mid ride snack) ate a bunch of low carb Chinese food (meat and veggies) and some meat for dinner.

then my commute monday morning as usual is my best ride of the week my heart rate averages 130 and I can do about 180 watts average. but then I start getting tired a hour after the ride and each ride the rest of the week get slower each day. so the last two days I have eaten more and kept my effort closer to the tandem ride. I am still tired but not more tired. I will do this all next week and see how it goes. I think I am right now at my energy limit. I don't know if more food will fix it. I have been burning 1000 to 1200 calories a day 6 days a week and 1500 on Sunday. 1 hours for 600 to 700 on my commute then 300 or 400 on the tandem. I never though I would get to the point that I actually worked harder then I could handle. I usually get tired first. using more assist as gotten it down to about 200 calories on each commute ride.

I think once I started riding on the tandem each day my energy levels have been dropping. so I need to ease up.

Iride01 10-09-20 04:45 PM

Usually it's fatty foods that cause heartburn. You are the whacky human you warned us about. Things do work differently for some. My wife gets hyper and fidgety if she takes diphenhydramine which usually makes one drowsy.

I did read somewhere once..... haven't found it again, that said high intensity exercise like cycling can cause heartburn in some people.

Many doctors and medical professionals will be useless for this as they've never had to deal with it. So just keep asking around when you have the opportunity. Eventually you might be talking to one that has some clue about what is going on with you and what might actually help.

fooferdoggie 10-09-20 05:37 PM

ya fat does not bother me well it can hurt my espagus but thats a different thing. I have had heart burn since I was a little child. when I went hard core no carb for a year it eased up and ow I only have it a few times. week not 20 times a day. its a huge improvement. so controlling what I eat has been the only help. thats why I was a bit lost on how I was feeling. I think I was just overdoing it. I am still limited on my energy its a lot better then it was this time last year a hell of a lot better. but it is limited. I had one great GP that really listened but I wanted to go to a high quality provider and now its starting all over again. my biggest worry is I have not found anything new I can eat in 20 years but unsweetened almond mik. every med or food I have tried my body has rejected. even trying to take extra potassium to help with leg cramps. so I am worried if I really need meds I wont be able to take them. so I work hard to try to stay as healthy as I can so I can stay alive. cycling has helped a lot and my e bike as made it possible. but I just need to keep it a little less intense as 240 miles a week it a lot for someone like me.
ot drove me nuts every doc would go on about the spiel of the heart burn info over and over. I have it memorized from a long time ago. I used to have all this problems maybe 15 years ago. I wished it would have been dealt with so easily. I think if I can eat veggies more often I wont been too bad off. I can handle them 3 times a week I don't know if I can do it more.

what I hate is it cost a lot of eat like I have to I cant handle cheap meats and I have to buy the high end deli meats as they don't have al lets junk in them. like precut and other cured meats. 1/2 pound of cheese a day from 25.00 a pound and down. couple jars of sunflower butter about 18.00 just for that. about 150 a week for food I don't really enjoy.

OldTryGuy 10-10-20 11:56 AM


Originally Posted by fooferdoggie (Post 21736239)
getting doctors to even listen much about gut bacteria has been a joke....................

I know a Dr. who will listen, most likely recommend testing and might even be able to help. If interested, pm me.

fooferdoggie 10-10-20 12:17 PM


Originally Posted by OldTryGuy (Post 21737305)
I know a Dr. who will listen, most likely recommend testing and might even be able to help. If interested, pm me.

How would that work since I doubt they are in the same city. but I would like the info. I have more tests then god (G) spent almost 10,00 on tests between my guts and my torn rotator cuff. it was crazy really.

OldTryGuy 10-10-20 04:14 PM


Originally Posted by fooferdoggie (Post 21737319)
How would that work since I doubt they are in the same city. but I would like the info. I have more tests then god (G) spent almost 10,00 on tests between my guts and my torn rotator cuff. it was crazy really.

Sent you a PM.

fooferdoggie 10-11-20 05:49 PM

got it thanks. I learned long ago I could not skip meals and I get feeling bad. yesterday I had a little larger breakfast rode to work for a few hours with a lot of assist till I recover. customer was a hour late and all I had was a bag of pork rides for a snack 400 calories. usually I eat lunch by 11 and its about 1000 calories. weh ni finally got to ride home around 1 even with max assist I was having trouble. I was almost home when I realized I felt like I was starving. ate a Buch of cauliflower with some good hot dogs and melted brie and some ricotta the weird thing a avocado . but a hour later did 24 miles on the tandem.
I splurged more on carbs today like a idiot I had some ben and jerry's before my ride and my usually flourless chocolate cake at the middle of the ride. way too many carbs and man too many carbs cause my heart to race. usually my average is about 110 to 115 bpm and maybe steep hill 150 or so. but just on the easy part of the ride it was around 145 with a whopping peak of 175. the highest I have averaged on my commute was 14 and I had to work hard put out 190 watt average and I was sweaty and tired after 9.5 miles. we did 38 miles with a average of 145 and we used a lot of assist as we have some 18% grades. its crazy how carbs get my heart going. I bet I only averaged 120 watts at most.

Carbonfiberboy 10-11-20 07:40 PM


Originally Posted by fooferdoggie (Post 21739021)
got it thanks. I learned long ago I could not skip meals and I get feeling bad. yesterday I had a little larger breakfast rode to work for a few hours with a lot of assist till I recover. customer was a hour late and all I had was a bag of pork rides for a snack 400 calories. usually I eat lunch by 11 and its about 1000 calories. weh ni finally got to ride home around 1 even with max assist I was having trouble. I was almost home when I realized I felt like I was starving. ate a Buch of cauliflower with some good hot dogs and melted brie and some ricotta the weird thing a avocado . but a hour later did 24 miles on the tandem.
I splurged more on carbs today like a idiot I had some ben and jerry's before my ride and my usually flourless chocolate cake at the middle of the ride. way too many carbs and man too many carbs cause my heart to race. usually my average is about 110 to 115 bpm and maybe steep hill 150 or so. but just on the easy part of the ride it was around 145 with a whopping peak of 175. the highest I have averaged on my commute was 14 and I had to work hard put out 190 watt average and I was sweaty and tired after 9.5 miles. we did 38 miles with a average of 145 and we used a lot of assist as we have some 18% grades. its crazy how carbs get my heart going. I bet I only averaged 120 watts at most.

Carbs don't "get your heart going." HR is a reasonably accurate reflection of effort made, though it drops if one has low blood sugar, and increases above normal with dehydration. HR * ejection fraction = amount of blood pumped. The more blood pumped, the more oxygen and nutrients reach your muscles, thus the more power produced. Low HR means less power produced. Too bad you don't have power pedals on the tandem, but we don't either - too expensive. We don't have power assist on any of our bikes, though at 146 we don't ride 18% grades anymore on our tandem, though I still do on my single. We rode a 154 mile, 10,000' course on our tandem when we were 136. We are not by any measure exceptional athletes. My FTP at 75 is about 160 and my wife's ~80.

A Dove Bar apiece is a favorite mid-ride snack for us on a 50 mile hilly ride - we never eat "lunch" during a bike ride, even 12 hour rides. We just eat on the bike. For long, hard rides we have a ~400 calorie breakfast, high in carbs with some protein. For a favorite after-ride snack we split a bagel with cream cheese. My wife's watts/kg is about half of mine, so the tandem is harder than my single, even on the flat, but I really enjoy being able to ride with her. That it's harder just means that it's better training for me.

We eat a natural foods diet. We don't count calories. For a typical breakfast we'll split a 3-egg cheese omelet and have a piece of WW toast (home-made bread) with butter and jam. Lunch might be a tuna salad sandwich apiece, same bread. For dinner, homemade WW pasta with vegetables in a tomato sauce with cheese. Can't say how much pasta since it's homemade, but a 4-egg pasta batch = 6 servings. We'll usually have a piece of fruit apiece for a snack during the day. What's obviously short in this menu is protein. We supplement with a total of about 30g each of whey protein/day. This evening we're having Barbequed Tempeh and Peppers from Moosewood Restaurant Cooks at Home.

DrIsotope 10-11-20 07:50 PM

Those e-bike rides with average HR in the low 100s shouldn't be viewed at exercise at all. Your diet should be prepared as if the bike rides don't exist, because it cardiovascular terms, they don't. A typical person of average health will have a similar energy output while walking at a normal pace.

An intake of 2200-2400kcal/day is high for someone weighing 186lbs unless they are particularly active. Absolutely discard Garmin's calorie numbers, even if they're coming from the e-bike's PM. The Garmin thinks you're doing all the work. The above-mentioned 45 mile ride would be in the 1200-1300kcal area without assist, if it were done at ~17mph. To reach 1500 would require it to be really steep, or ridden really quickly.

fooferdoggie 10-11-20 08:07 PM

Before I started riding and maybe 3 years ago I used to pig out on carbs once a week. I did it for many years but it was causing a lot of problems. but I would get up to go to the bathroom to wee I had my new Apple Watch and I checked my heart rate 150 just waking to the bathroom. believe me my pulse races with carbs .I ride the tandem every day and keep track of my heart rate and my other bike has the power meter so I have a good idea of my power level. I don't work that hard on the tandem my wife is not up to it. but I average 110bpm for most rides unless we are feeling really energetic. just coasting before I did any work I was at 140. on my commutes where I actually work hard it is hard to get my heart rate to 140. most days I am lucky I can average 130. the highest heart rate I have had riding is 160 till today. Ok here is the ride on my commute one of my better rides about as good as it gets watts wise. I have gotten a bit better before but this is close. I don't work that hard on the tandem. my wife could not do it. this tandem ride is pretty normal on effort. the last pic is the commute pic I worked my butt off to get that. second ride is the typical tandem ride the last is today. today I ate too many carbs my splurge about 1000 calories 155 grams of carbs. way more then I usually eat. I would be lucky to get 120 watt average on the tandem and today we used more then usual assist. a e tandem really makes it fun to ride. I doubt my wife could ever do 45 miles without it. todays hills were really bad 15 to 18% grade,


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...18412d822.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...64720b9ce.jpeg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2bf354acb1.jpg

fooferdoggie 10-11-20 08:26 PM


Originally Posted by DrIsotope (Post 21739221)
Those e-bike rides with average HR in the low 100s shouldn't be viewed at exercise at all. Your diet should be prepared as if the bike rides don't exist, because it cardiovascular terms, they don't. A typical person of average health will have a similar energy output while walking at a normal pace.

An intake of 2200-2400kcal/day is high for someone weighing 186lbs unless they are particularly active. Absolutely discard Garmin's calorie numbers, even if they're coming from the e-bike's PM. The Garmin thinks you're doing all the work. The above-mentioned 45 mile ride would be in the 1200-1300kcal area without assist, if it were done at ~17mph. To reach 1500 would require it to be really steep, or ridden really quickly.

yes I have been taking them as somewhat ok. but my bike computer has my watt output and they are about 50 cals off from each other. I was trying to keep my heart rate around 130 on my commutes. but I ride in the city so its a lot of starting and stopping. there are few rides were I can keep a steady pace. for the last few months I have worked as hard as I can on my commutes. but it is too much I don't have that energy to spare. I am always active though not sure how accurate my garmin watch or Apple Watch is but both get me at 5 or so miles of walking a day. it was higher till I got my bikes.
Putting out 150 watt average or a bit more for 9.5 miles twice a day and then 10 to 20 miles with about 120 watt average is more then I can sustain. but is it because I don't eat enough or have I hit my daily energy limit ? this what I am working out. I think I am just running out of steam. so right now I am not working as hard one my commutes and I will see. I have been working hard and harder on my commutes but I think once we started riding the tandem regular so far I have been getting more and more tired. once a week I could average 180 or so watts then then my rides start going downhill the rest of the week. since I can only eat mostly protein and fat I don't know if I get al the energy out of my food. I don't always digest things super well. also hit a new record of 255 miles in a week. I usually get 220 or so.

fooferdoggie 10-27-20 08:19 AM

I have found my energy levels have dropped quite a bit lower now. around the level 2 or 3 months after I started riding. I went from putting out 150 watts on average to about 120 or so. heart rate 120 or above to around 110 or so. I have to use a lot more assist as I cant push now. I am still riding the same distance 220 to 250 miles a week just with less effort. I don't know if I am just riding more then my body can handle or that a food is effecting me. the only new thing I eat is some unsweetened chocolate almond milk. the chocolate may be effecting me since I have it every day. it could just be subtle and the effects just build up. or I am riding too much. this started after we stared riding the tandem more every day but thats when I started on the chocolate almond milk. I have been really careful on what I eat so it is not other foods if it is a food thing. but when it gets dark when I get home the tandem riding is going to drop off a lot. so if it does not get better then I may have to drop the chocolate almond milk on a regular basis.
I Know chocolate if I eat too much will make me tired I found that out Sunday the nI had my one carb splurge of this flowerless chocolate cake it made me sluggish on my ride. but that was a lot of very dark intense chocolate. I cut the chocolate almond milk off for a week and did not notice a difference.

at least I can still ride even if I don't work as hard. the wife and I I did our longest ride Sunday 47 miles then a meal and a errand ride for a total of 58 miles a record for us. pretty wiped out afterwards though. I hate being such a slave to food and having to watch so closely everything I eat and having to eat the same things every day.

DrIsotope 10-27-20 09:11 AM

If you're having this much of an issue with food intake, it seems to me that a trip to (at the very least) a dietician might be in order.

I've been on the 16:8 intermittent fasting for just over a month now, so I have around 2 dozen rides done completely fasted (between 12-14 hours since last meal) and I think I'm down (on average) about 5% in power. I have to limit duration to ~100 minutes, but I can seemingly go as hard as I feel like, as I've had a couple of rides with averages ~230W. But I can eat most anything (excluding the laundry list of foods diverticulitis took from me.)

Iride01 10-27-20 10:04 AM

It might be your subconscious desire to let the bike do the work for you that has your power levels dropping. If you never work yourself hard enough to let you body know that it has to get stronger then it won't get stronger.

I don't recall if you ever stated you had any cardio issues, but if I never let my HR get above 120, I would never feel that I even did anything for my cardio health and much less any real exercise.

If your physician has not told you not to do so, then there is no reason not to occasionally work so hard that you hit your maximum possible HR for a short time. I feel strongly that if you want your body to comfortable work at a particular level, then you have to exceed that level regularly to get it to that level.

fooferdoggie 10-27-20 05:46 PM

its hard to explain how my energy work or maybe its not energy but I am not sure what to call it. for many years my energy levels have been really low. for many many years my would feel like I overworked my muscles more in my arms then legs as soon as I started working them like sanding a part carrying something and such. I could still do it but it felt like I had worked really hard. when I started riding last nov I could put out maybe 80 watts mostly it Was just spinning with a heart rate around 90 to 100. anything more and I would be wobbly. that was 9.5 miles each way on my commute. it took me about 3 months before I could start working lightly and I slowly was able to work harder and drop down on the assist levels. maybe a month ago I was finding I could ride great on Monday and it would go downhill the rest of the week. I had almost eliminated the tired muscle feeling. but it started creeping back and getting worse. Now it is pretty much steady better then when I started riding but not as good as it used to be. Usually if a food bothers me it is pretty obvious. but I think its been the chocolate almond milk. well the chocolate in the almond milk. it is one of the few new things I started eating every day. it does not bother me enough to notice but every day I think its s slowly weakening me. I have went through this over the yeas many times. but then it was much worse. I would actually loose muscle. and once I found the food and dumped it it took weeks or months to recover. SO it may take a couple of weeks of not drinking it and not having little bits of chocolate to recover. but its the only new food I have eaten on a regular basis.
I wish I could get help with my food problems but no one has a clue. they cant even tell me why I can only eat protein and very carefully selected veggies a few times a week. No one can tell me why carbs effect me so much. why I don't get energy from them but they make my heart race and will make me weak if I eat them all the time. I wish someone had a clue. but as long as I am careful I do ok. I think I knew the chocolate almond milk was a no no but it seemed ok. it was a nice snack only 160 calories a quart. it is the only snack I can eat feel full without eating a lot of calories.
I have talked to a dietitian but when you can only eat protein and a few veggies and not as much fat as they want there is not much they can help with. She kept wanting me to try other carbs and would not believe how they screwed up.
I can still ride as much if I don't work too hard at it. I eat things I should not because my diet is so plain and the same every day it can drive me nuts. 5 days a week I eat pretty much the same thing every meal. I can vary it a little but it might be a choice of bacon brand or a few sausage times or what variety of cheese. bu thats the extent of it. =weekends I eat more veggies that are low carb and have one carb splurge that I pay a price for.
I have these issues for over 25 years. it has gotten much better since I stopped having a large carb splurge once a week and control what I eat far more. the nI finally got insurance I was hoping to get some help but nope no one has a clue one doc helped me some as much as she could but its been pretty much my working it out myself. how foods effect me have changed over the years and it used to b far worse. Now they tend to make me tired.

DrIsotope 10-27-20 08:47 PM

If you get physically fatigued from holding your heart rate at 100, then even I, as an admitted not-a-doctor, believe you need to get yourself to a cardio specialist, and get a full workup, like... now.

From what I understand, carbohydrate intolerance is very similar to lactose intolerance, and both are equally (and easily) treatable/manageable. I genuinely can't see how this would not have been clinically diagnosed long ago.

The heart thing is something else entirely.

fooferdoggie 10-27-20 09:45 PM


Originally Posted by DrIsotope (Post 21763948)
If you get physically fatigued from holding your heart rate at 100, then even I, as an admitted not-a-doctor, believe you need to get yourself to a cardio specialist, and get a full workup, like... now.

From what I understand, carbohydrate intolerance is very similar to lactose intolerance, and both are equally (and easily) treatable/manageable. I genuinely can't see how this would not have been clinically diagnosed long ago.

The heart thing is something else entirely.

I have had stress tests and ekgs because when my esophagus was really bad it made my left arm hurt and it freaked the docs out. but its not really tired it just feels tired. I can still work or ride the bike I just don't feel good if I push past the limit it just makes it feel like I am working without enough energy. I had almost eliminated it a month or so ago.
Something is bothering me thats been the way of it for many years and it's always been food. The whole carb thing seems its a thing I was born with as it has caused heartburn my whole life. but the rest of it is I think screwed up gut bacteria from way to many antibiotics 25 years ago. its never worked the same since. only after having to go no carb hard for a year to help my esophagus caused my gut bacteria to work well with such a low carb diet. I think its why my energy levels have improved.
So all my problems always come from eating stuff that bothers me. Thats pretty much anything other then meat with no seasonings or very little hard cheese unsweetened almond milk and sunflower seeds. Everything else I can only eat a few times a week to only once a week to almost or never. Sometimes I can at something and it seems fine but after weeks or months I start feeling bad. Every time I just have to look at what I am eating and stop eating that new food. Or a new variation ofd it like a different brand of bacon.
I can eat some veggies and simple carbs maybe once a week without a lot of problems.

I just looked up carb intolerance and it talks about foods to avoid. Well that part is easy but the foods recommended no way. Years ago I did an elimination diet and cut out carbs because I did not feel as good When I ate them. Thats what started all the food intolerances after that my body just said nope to so many foods. Back then I could eat more veggies and nuts but then I got the bright idea I could eat cabs and after months of that the food problems got worse.
After many many years the effects are pretty light compared to what they used to do to me. But now anything that bothers me makes me feel tired. Ofd I eat it over and over it makes me physically weak.
The problem is food has become more of a chore than a pleasure. I hav no foods I enjoy that donít bother me. I cant eat for pleasure and not suffer for it. I eat pretty much the same things every day wit ha few veggies thrown in and some simple carbs once a week. When I stray from that I suffer then I have to look at what I eat and eliminate whatever it is thats doing it (pretty sure its the unsweetened almond milk)


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